our DM quotes the "its DM rules" too much - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

our DM quotes the "its DM rules" too much

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
thatguy133
Jun 20, 2012 12:30:54 hi guys,

i was wondering if anyone had any advice with dealing with a DM the decides too much of the RP and gaming experience to speed up the session? i mean i would rate our DM as more of a player than actually a DM. we've been playing with him for a year or two and its great sometimes whenever new characters are made but lame when existing characters continue adventuring. all but one of our party notice and have approached him about the lacking in some sessions and his response to it is "its DM's rules". i sometimes find it unfair to the party that some sessions are cut short bcuz our DM wants to leave early(for no particular reason). we have already suggested that someone else would DM instead of him but he doesnot want that(as he fears that his character would die) and wants to stay in control of the game. and when ever we go in dungeons or face bosses to discover loot (whether its random or not) it seems that the items found are always more suited for the player who for most of the encounter/sessions just does nothing or leechs on others(whether its RP or during combat).

for example

our party consists of a wizard, rogue, ranger, fighter and a warlord

the wizard always does her job and pops minions and controls the board(like a boss)

the fighter always does his job by holding the line and keeps the more squishy characters out of harms way(like a freakin wall)

the ranger does he best with some heavy dps

the rogue is always the distraction so that the team plan stays in check(btw my rogue is the most annoying character to hit=ARTFUL DODGER of 4e)

but our warlord doesnt help at all. he just tries to be a soloist and that doesnt work. he almost never helps out or heals when needed. i mean we even RP when we need healing so that there isnt any metagaming in our games and when he still doesnt get it we tell him(point -> at who needs the healing most) and he still doesnt heal. he only ever heals when its at teh end of the encounter and either everyones dead or no needs his healing

after most fights we search loot or RP and whenever their are rewards to be given the warlord gets all items suited for him when he has done nothing(not even RP) to desire such items

please help any suggestions would be good
#2
Krusk
Jun 20, 2012 15:01:52
Take some effort and work on the verbage of your post. Its really hard to read. The easier it is to read, the more responses you will get.

we have already suggested that someone else would DM instead of him but he doesnot want that(as he fears that his character would die) and wants to stay in control of the game.

When all the players collectively don't like a DM Bill, they don't ask if he would step aside and let someone else do it. They say "Bill, John will be DMing a new game on the same night as yours. All of us are playing in that now, and no longer in yours. Would you like to join?"

Especially if he says he is going to keep DMing after you have asked him to let someone else take over.
#3
thatguy133
Jun 21, 2012 1:56:52 thanks for your post and sorry about the wording of it
#4
Runfer_Cover
Jun 21, 2012 7:22:39 I noticed in your post that your DM is afraid of stepping aside because his character would die. This is an issue, because I have found that DM PCs rarely work out and the players often take a back seat to this character. BTW which character is the DM running?

For magic items, Our current DM tries to rotate who gets the magic item. I know this is a little meta-gaming, but does insure that people are staying up on items.

I will agree with Krusk on the rest, if all the players want a new DM, than a different DM is the way to go.

Remember this is a group activity and everyone should be enjoying themselves.
#5
DaBeerds
Jun 22, 2012 17:06:06 I agree with Krusk as well. A DM is nothing without his players.
#6
robertread3
Jun 23, 2012 2:04:15 1. read your posts before posting

2. your DM plays a character? while ive never had this happen, the DM being able to run on both sides of the screen sounds kind of difficult.

3. typically my party just destroys what we find to enchant it onto items we actually want. somtimes you gotta make him caugh up for everyone else.

4. you appear to have some issues with this warlord, perhaps you could help him with his character, however it dosent seem to be an issue because the rest of your party can carry him.

5. i think your DM is not having fun and the lack of consistancy seems to indicate low amount of preperation/intrest in DMing. if he is dead set on not changing i dont see a way out of this situation without forcing him to step down and having another player DM.
#7
geoffa
Jun 25, 2012 8:48:26 Two thoughts based on what has worked with my local group . . .

1. DMing involves a lot of compromise. The rules DO give you the power to have the final say in a lot of issues but, as Spiderman taught us, "with great power comes great responsibility." If you act like a little dictator, and steamroll over everything your players suggest then pretty soon you end up with no players. Always listen to your players, even if sometimes you think about what they said and still tell them "no" at the end. I guess this is more advice for the DM in question rather than for the original poster . . .

2. Rotating DMs every 3-6 months has really helped our group remain vibrant. Each person runs a little bit different style of game so you don't get stuck in a rut. Nobody gets stuck doing the work of DMing all the time. And when you start DMing a game, you are encouraged to tell a tight story, with beginning, middle and ending because you know you have a limited window of time to work in. I know some people like to talk about their awesome campaigns that run for years and years, but in my experience they just start to wander and lose the plot if you let them go on for too long. Maybe if you outline some of these reasons to the DM that does not want to give up the seat of power, you might be able to convince him to be a player for a while.

It sounds like it would definitely help your group to switch DMs for a little while. It also helps build empathy when the DMs know what it is like to be a player and the players know what it is like to be a DM.
#8
MrCustomer
Jul 05, 2012 22:34:06 It may be late to post this suggestion, get a small booklet and write PC Rules on the front, and then inside start making up PC Rules to counter DM rules. Remember to use Ink, it's official if it is in Ink. If he says "it is DM's rules" then consult your PC rulebook for an appropriate rule such as "When the DM is railroading you then a PC may transfer to a train of his own choosing"

Chances are he doesn't have his rules written down, and even if they are they are likely not in an official rulebook, point out that your rule book is official because it has "PC RuleBook" Written in ink on the front. So make sure the first rules on page one state this, that Rules in Ink trump "verbal" rules, and Rules in Rulebooks trump rules that aren't in rulebooks. If he tries the same stunt then use a computer to print your rule book out, and make sure all the PC's have a copy, remember rule 3 "rules printed out trump rules that are simply written"

If cash isn't an iddue, have your rules Notorized, ussually this only costs about $20 or so a page, obviously Notorized rules will trump his rules, and most courts of law would agree, plus think of the intertainment value of presenting these rules to a Notary Public.
#9
Undrhil
Jul 17, 2012 3:29:18
It may be late to post this suggestion, get a small booklet and write PC Rules on the front, and then inside start making up PC Rules to counter DM rules. Remember to use Ink, it's official if it is in Ink. If he says "it is DM's rules" then consult your PC rulebook for an appropriate rule such as "When the DM is railroading you then a PC may transfer to a train of his own choosing"

Chances are he doesn't have his rules written down, and even if they are they are likely not in an official rulebook, point out that your rule book is official because it has "PC RuleBook" Written in ink on the front. So make sure the first rules on page one state this, that Rules in Ink trump "verbal" rules, and Rules in Rulebooks trump rules that aren't in rulebooks. If he tries the same stunt then use a computer to print your rule book out, and make sure all the PC's have a copy, remember rule 3 "rules printed out trump rules that are simply written"

If cash isn't an iddue, have your rules Notorized, ussually this only costs about $20 or so a page, obviously Notorized rules will trump his rules, and most courts of law would agree, plus think of the intertainment value of presenting these rules to a Notary Public.

In this post, we learn that players can be bigger pains than DMs.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thatguy133 Jun 20, 2012 12:30:54	hi guys, i was wondering if anyone had any advice with dealing with a DM the decides too much of the RP and gaming experience to speed up the session? i mean i would rate our DM as more of a player than actually a DM. we've been playing with him for a year or two and its great sometimes whenever new characters are made but lame when existing characters continue adventuring. all but one of our party notice and have approached him about the lacking in some sessions and his response to it is "its DM's rules". i sometimes find it unfair to the party that some sessions are cut short bcuz our DM wants to leave early(for no particular reason). we have already suggested that someone else would DM instead of him but he doesnot want that(as he fears that his character would die) and wants to stay in control of the game. and when ever we go in dungeons or face bosses to discover loot (whether its random or not) it seems that the items found are always more suited for the player who for most of the encounter/sessions just does nothing or leechs on others(whether its RP or during combat). for example our party consists of a wizard, rogue, ranger, fighter and a warlord the wizard always does her job and pops minions and controls the board(like a boss) the fighter always does his job by holding the line and keeps the more squishy characters out of harms way(like a freakin wall) the ranger does he best with some heavy dps the rogue is always the distraction so that the team plan stays in check(btw my rogue is the most annoying character to hit=ARTFUL DODGER of 4e) but our warlord doesnt help at all. he just tries to be a soloist and that doesnt work. he almost never helps out or heals when needed. i mean we even RP when we need healing so that there isnt any metagaming in our games and when he still doesnt get it we tell him(point -> at who needs the healing most) and he still doesnt heal. he only ever heals when its at teh end of the encounter and either everyones dead or no needs his healing after most fights we search loot or RP and whenever their are rewards to be given the warlord gets all items suited for him when he has done nothing(not even RP) to desire such items please help any suggestions would be good
#2 Krusk Jun 20, 2012 15:01:52	Take some effort and work on the verbage of your post. Its really hard to read. The easier it is to read, the more responses you will get. we have already suggested that someone else would DM instead of him but he doesnot want that(as he fears that his character would die) and wants to stay in control of the game. When all the players collectively don't like a DM Bill, they don't ask if he would step aside and let someone else do it. They say "Bill, John will be DMing a new game on the same night as yours. All of us are playing in that now, and no longer in yours. Would you like to join?" Especially if he says he is going to keep DMing after you have asked him to let someone else take over.
#3 thatguy133 Jun 21, 2012 1:56:52	thanks for your post and sorry about the wording of it
#4 Runfer_Cover Jun 21, 2012 7:22:39	I noticed in your post that your DM is afraid of stepping aside because his character would die. This is an issue, because I have found that DM PCs rarely work out and the players often take a back seat to this character. BTW which character is the DM running? For magic items, Our current DM tries to rotate who gets the magic item. I know this is a little meta-gaming, but does insure that people are staying up on items. I will agree with Krusk on the rest, if all the players want a new DM, than a different DM is the way to go. Remember this is a group activity and everyone should be enjoying themselves.
#5 DaBeerds Jun 22, 2012 17:06:06	I agree with Krusk as well. A DM is nothing without his players.
#6 robertread3 Jun 23, 2012 2:04:15	1. read your posts before posting 2. your DM plays a character? while ive never had this happen, the DM being able to run on both sides of the screen sounds kind of difficult. 3. typically my party just destroys what we find to enchant it onto items we actually want. somtimes you gotta make him caugh up for everyone else. 4. you appear to have some issues with this warlord, perhaps you could help him with his character, however it dosent seem to be an issue because the rest of your party can carry him. 5. i think your DM is not having fun and the lack of consistancy seems to indicate low amount of preperation/intrest in DMing. if he is dead set on not changing i dont see a way out of this situation without forcing him to step down and having another player DM.
#7 geoffa Jun 25, 2012 8:48:26	Two thoughts based on what has worked with my local group . . . 1. DMing involves a lot of compromise. The rules DO give you the power to have the final say in a lot of issues but, as Spiderman taught us, "with great power comes great responsibility." If you act like a little dictator, and steamroll over everything your players suggest then pretty soon you end up with no players. Always listen to your players, even if sometimes you think about what they said and still tell them "no" at the end. I guess this is more advice for the DM in question rather than for the original poster . . . 2. Rotating DMs every 3-6 months has really helped our group remain vibrant. Each person runs a little bit different style of game so you don't get stuck in a rut. Nobody gets stuck doing the work of DMing all the time. And when you start DMing a game, you are encouraged to tell a tight story, with beginning, middle and ending because you know you have a limited window of time to work in. I know some people like to talk about their awesome campaigns that run for years and years, but in my experience they just start to wander and lose the plot if you let them go on for too long. Maybe if you outline some of these reasons to the DM that does not want to give up the seat of power, you might be able to convince him to be a player for a while. It sounds like it would definitely help your group to switch DMs for a little while. It also helps build empathy when the DMs know what it is like to be a player and the players know what it is like to be a DM.
#8 MrCustomer Jul 05, 2012 22:34:06	It may be late to post this suggestion, get a small booklet and write PC Rules on the front, and then inside start making up PC Rules to counter DM rules. Remember to use Ink, it's official if it is in Ink. If he says "it is DM's rules" then consult your PC rulebook for an appropriate rule such as "When the DM is railroading you then a PC may transfer to a train of his own choosing" Chances are he doesn't have his rules written down, and even if they are they are likely not in an official rulebook, point out that your rule book is official because it has "PC RuleBook" Written in ink on the front. So make sure the first rules on page one state this, that Rules in Ink trump "verbal" rules, and Rules in Rulebooks trump rules that aren't in rulebooks. If he tries the same stunt then use a computer to print your rule book out, and make sure all the PC's have a copy, remember rule 3 "rules printed out trump rules that are simply written" If cash isn't an iddue, have your rules Notorized, ussually this only costs about $20 or so a page, obviously Notorized rules will trump his rules, and most courts of law would agree, plus think of the intertainment value of presenting these rules to a Notary Public.
#9 Undrhil Jul 17, 2012 3:29:18	It may be late to post this suggestion, get a small booklet and write PC Rules on the front, and then inside start making up PC Rules to counter DM rules. Remember to use Ink, it's official if it is in Ink. If he says "it is DM's rules" then consult your PC rulebook for an appropriate rule such as "When the DM is railroading you then a PC may transfer to a train of his own choosing" Chances are he doesn't have his rules written down, and even if they are they are likely not in an official rulebook, point out that your rule book is official because it has "PC RuleBook" Written in ink on the front. So make sure the first rules on page one state this, that Rules in Ink trump "verbal" rules, and Rules in Rulebooks trump rules that aren't in rulebooks. If he tries the same stunt then use a computer to print your rule book out, and make sure all the PC's have a copy, remember rule 3 "rules printed out trump rules that are simply written" If cash isn't an iddue, have your rules Notorized, ussually this only costs about $20 or so a page, obviously Notorized rules will trump his rules, and most courts of law would agree, plus think of the intertainment value of presenting these rules to a Notary Public. In this post, we learn that players can be bigger pains than DMs.