I hope you all are having a good day. I've got a situation on my hands... well, not me personally, but our entire party. Let me explain... but first, some background:
Warning: most definitely will contain spoilers for RHoD!!!
Campaign: Red Hand of Doom (3.5 ed)
Party composition:
Halfling Druid and Riding Dog Animal Companion
Elf Beguiler
Gnome Swordsage
Dwarf Fighter/Mage (me).
Party is mostly 11th level, except for my 10th level dwarf.
Situation:
We have reached the final room. We have finally beaten Azzar Kul. At this point, most of us at the table let out a nice big sigh of relief after our DM laid that big blue SOB down on his back. We all thought, "Great, all we need to do is finish off some of these minions and head back to Brindol." Next, our DM removed all of the remaining minions from the board, which really made us wonder what he had up his sleeve. Our previous sighs of relief were replace by groans and moans as the DM finally got to break out his prized aspect of tiamat mini.
Now, personally speaking, this is now about the 3rd time I've thought, well this MUST be the end of the campaign (the other's being the Battle of Brindol and the very recent Azzar Kul fight)... but I digress.
Now, to give you an overview of how the party is doing: None of us were seriously hurt during the Azzar Kul fight in the hit point department, but the beguiler, druid and myself (fighter/mage) are very low on spells available. We have all received some sort of special hit point loss that is currently uncurable without the proper clerical aid (which we don't have). The beguiler has spent the last few rounds under a Confusion spell, which complicates things considerably for my eventual question (it's coming). We still have some charges left on our staff of life, so none of us "should" die, but crazier things have happened in this module.
On to my question:
This is the part where things get a little iffy. Our party will usually take any situation where our individual opinions differ, and just do a vote. In this particular situation, our druid wants to stay and fight tiamat, the swordsage and myself would like to use our teleport scroll to flee. We haven't really taken the beguiler's opinion into account because his character is still "confused" and would have a hard time getting his opinion out if all he's doing is... you guessed it, babbling incoherently. The following is where our opinions differ:
Druid player's perspective: We came here to do a job. The job we came here to do is to protect the Vale. If the Aspect of Tiamat is running around free, we haven't finished our job. We should stay and fight to make sure this thing doesn't threaten the Vale. If we left now, who knows what this thing is capable of and what it will do? We can't take the risk of leaving because it may endanger nearby villagers.
Swordsage player and my perspective: We came here to do a job. The job we came here to do is stop Azzar Kul's ritual. With the ritual stopped, we have successfully stopped whatever nastyness Kul had planned. The appearance of the Aspect of Tiamat was unplanned. We are low on resources to combat the Aspect effectively. If we teleport out now, we will have enough time to properly regroup, rest up, get healed, make a plan, and fight this thing on our terms, rather than her's. If we stay and fight, there is a chance we could have a TPK... leaving the Aspect free to lay waste to the Vale we are supposed to protect. If we teleport out, we, AT THE VERY LEAST, can get vital information to Brindol of the situation. At that point, if we do go back and receive a TPK, Brindol will be aware of the potental lethal risk involved in our attempt and be able/ready to have a contingency plan in place.
Basically, it comes down to this:
The druid thinks that what we came here to do isn't finished yet. Man up and finish what you started.
The swordsage and myself think if the Aspect kills us all and goes on a rampage through the Vale, we aren't accomplishing what we set out to do. A strategic retreat followed by a full-force assault at a later time is better than "we HOPE we can take it now."
And just to make it interesting, the druid player is stubborn enough in his beliefs that he won't go back to brindol until we've finished the job. I tried to talk him into seeing things my way tonight, but no go. As good friends, our party would never desert a fellow member just because of differing opinions, but this is truely a case of life or death.
So now you understand why I named the thread the way I did.
Opinions, thoughts, suggestions?
I mean, generally these kinds of people don't like to be kept waiting
I'm trying to get the party into one mindset, so we all know how things will transpire.
I know we don't actually have in-game time to decide our next course of action, but as people out of the game, we have a week.
We (as players) meet once a week and try to get everyone on the same page, so We (as characters) can jump right into the game once it starts.
I'm trying to get the party into one mindset, so we all know how things will transpire.
I know we don't actually have in-game time to decide our next course of action, but as people out of the game, we have a week.
But how would you then explain it in-game?
"While Regdar would normally have opted to stay and fight, the idea of teleporting just sounded like a particularly good idea today. *POOF*"
But how would you then explain it in-game?
"While Regdar would normally have opted to stay and fight, the idea of teleporting just sounded like a particularly good idea today. *POOF*"
No, you're right. I guess we'll just leave our druid in the room to take on the Aspect of Tiamat by himself.
This is what I'm trying to avoid. I don't have any idea how we would explain it in-game. And I really don't care. I'm trying to get everyone on the same page before stupid individual decisions ends up killing a party member.
No, you're right.
I didn't offer a different solution.
I guess we'll just leave our druid in the room to take on the Aspect of Tiamat by himself.
You could, however, use a free action or two to talk to the druid.
This is what I'm trying to avoid. I don't have any idea how we would explain it in-game. And I really don't care. I'm trying to get everyone on the same page before stupid individual decisions ends up killing a party member.
A valid point. I guess I came off as argumentative, but it's really just a curiosity on different playstyles. Leave that defensiveness in it's holster, bud! :P
Do you have a bag of holding? If you put the druid in a bag of holding first, he's technically not teleporting at all and you don't even need a Will save from him to get the success. He's confused, so the most he can try to do is babble his way out of the bag.
Just remember... three minutes without air, three days without water, three weeks without food. Sing it like a mantra, and remember it well. We lost a psion as a suspect because some PCs forgot about him and uh... well...
So just bag him, if you can. If not, teleport him against his will. Or knock him out first. How much health does he have? Could you knock him out quickly?
There won't be alot of time for any sort of discussion.
At this point you might be able to escape - w/wo the stubborn druid.
If I recall correctly, you can force someone to teleport against their will. They just have to fail the Will save first, which I don't know whether or not is at all influenced by being confused or not.
Do you have a bag of holding? If you put the druid in a bag of holding first, he's technically not teleporting at all and you don't even need a Will save from him to get the success. He's confused, so the most he can try to do is babble his way out of the bag.
Just remember... three minutes without air, three days without water, three weeks without food. Sing it like a mantra, and remember it well. We lost a psion as a suspect because some PCs forgot about him and uh... well...
So just bag him, if you can. If not, teleport him against his will. Or knock him out first. How much health does he have? Could you knock him out quickly?
The elf beguiler is confused. The halfling druid is the stubborn one who doesn't want to leave.
We do have a bag of holding, but I highly doubt he would go willingly.
And then comes the tearful goodbye as the party teleports away, leaving the druid to try and kill this horrible abomination...
And then comes the Raise Dead spell...
I guess I'm just looking for something to improve my case of coming back at a later time would be in the best interest to the entire party.
How do I get the druid player to ease up and go along with "the majority" without him being stubborn and running a suicide solo mission?
I'm looking for solutions rather than "just leave him".
Sorry if I come off snarky, I'm running on little sleep.
Oh, and with the druid having a good wisdom and the teleport being cast from a scroll, there is very little chance of him failing. If he's determined to stay, he will.
If the Druid absolutely refuses to Teleport, possibility would be to flee on foot, making occasional stands against it to injure it but fleeing before any siginificant harm can come to the party. Depending on the INT of the Aspect, it might suspect you're trying to draw it into a trap and let you flee, giving you time to recuperate and recover spells before going back in to deal with it. Unless, of course, the thing is much faster than you.
Well, if you're right and fighting the Aspect then and there gives a significant chance of a TPK, then the Druid will have failed even more to protect the Vale. If no one knows about the threat, and it wipes out the only significant force capable of opposing it because said force is running low on resources ....
If the Druid absolutely refuses to Teleport, possibility would be to flee on foot, making occasional stands against it to injure it but fleeing before any siginificant harm can come to the party. Depending on the INT of the Aspect, it might suspect you're trying to draw it into a trap and let you flee, giving you time to recuperate and recover spells before going back in to deal with it. Unless, of course, the thing is much faster than you.
Your first paragraph is pretty much my whole point. In my opinion, regrouping and warning the Vale is almost as important as getting out of there alive. If we did stay and fight now, a possible TPK could cause the entire Vale to be raised to the ground... which is what we've been trying to avoid during the entire campaign.
Only problem with your second paragraph is something I forgot to mention: Our only escape route is a hole in the ground which has been "iced up solid". Leaving us with just the two options... Fight or Flight.
Thank you guys for your responses. Keep 'em coming.
You COULD try to take it on, keeping the teleport scroll on hand for when the druid gets taken to negative numbers, just teleport all of you out of there. Then, at least the druid's happy, even if you guys are significantly more injured. Hell, you might even kill it.
Show
I'm pretty sure that encounter is designed with retreat in mind. It's a tough fight (CR 14 or so) where you get blasted by 10 dice worth of different breath weapons every round, AND attacked by magic/full attacks. If the room is still filled with the antimagic field, I don't see how you could win unless you can prepare.
Why not retreat... and take the vale with you?
My first instinct was "destroy the vale so Tiamat can't have it either". But that might make things worse. So why not just take it with you, so you can recooperate, and Tiamat can't get ahold of it? Evidently, it'll take her some time to find it's new location. And then you can wait for her to come to you..
I thought of this within five seconds. I didn't even stop to consider my team-mate's opinions. Because their lives mean very little to me. lol! But I'm not about to let Tiamat have ultimate power by getting ahold of the macguffin. I'm apathetic, not retarded.
Why not retreat... and take the vale with you?
Dictionary.com
vale /veɪl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [veyl] Show IPA ,
–noun
1. a valley.
2. the world, or mortal or earthly life: this vale of tears.
:D
Perhaps you meant:
veil /veɪl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [veyl] Show IPA ,
–noun
1. a piece of opaque or transparent material worn over the face for concealment, for protection from the elements, or to enhance the appearance.
[...]
trying to change the guy´s druid into something he is clearly not is a bad idea both roleplaying wise and buddys-having-fun-getting-along wise.
I can see how this "a campaign is a game to beat"-approach works well with roleplaying as a means to hang out, but he wouldn't be the first rp to die you know..
what every you do (knock him out, trick him, leave him, convince him, help him fight..etc) do it in-game. And as a last note, obviously the guy is prepared to sacrifice his character and any DM should be able to get him back into the party with another rp in a friction free way so I can't see why you should want to convince him OUTSIDE of the game anyway?
good luck.
edit: read your post again and came up with a question: who is the stubborn one, the druid or the guy playing the druid? kinda makes a difference..at least it would in my group
And maybe that is where your true disagreement is. The druid *may* believe that the sacrifice of the party is worth it to save others.
Is the alignment of your characters pragmatic/selfish enough to let them sleep at night knowing the kind of damage the aspect can do while your resting and shopping at Habib's used wand emporium?
-Have Fun
Talk to him some more, and if he refuses again... then he needs to roll a new character. I disagree with Kawnell's post. It's better to have a few die, rather than to have the whole valley die.