so when you become evil techincally you become the bad guy so what do you do then, personaly i think i would seriously enjoy the bad guy, but how can the DM cope with that, besides if i was to become the bad guy i couldn't play two players one the party's side and on the other side.
what do you think?
its unlikely the PC's will join me as they will be on some high and mighty quest to stop evil, oh wait guess who's evil now :/
from the party stand point picture this:
a group, paladin, cleric, necromancer (cn), bard, rogue, barb and monk all go into battle agenst lets say a tribe of orcs thats about (70 - 100 right?)
and the necromancer dies, but then rises as a lich, yet does not attack the party as he died next to them and has history with them and knew nothing could be done about his death would the party attack him as he is now an undead simply because of that, or would they simply let him go just the one time because he died in the cause of good?
assuming he is let go, what does he do then, go after them?
They put up with each other because each increased the other's ability to reach their goals.
Is your undead necromancer useful enough that he can make a case to the party that they need him more than they need to destroy him?
depending on the enermy it would have its uses i can see but it has its problems for the party aswell remember adventuring partys think in packs, if there is a set leader there call but most don't, they work it out together have a discussion and decide from there, what would be a compling arguement to keep you alive, how could you be of use to them?
It's that simple.
Just stop being a jerk. Get over yourself that your character can die. The game is not about you. Work with your party instead of for yourself and your chances of success and not dieing will be that much better. You can still have personal goals, just don't try to achieve them at the expense of everyone else.
It's that simple.
Narvar i'm not being a jerk i'm simply asking about a dilema which is easily possible within D&D now its all fair and good when it happens to the bad guy for the obvious rotue is to destory the bad guy. But what happens when it happens to a party member. you don't have to do it to yourself you could get taken prisoner and experimented by a lich who uses your life force to make a Phylactery, or your given a necless which turns you into an intelligent zombie or something similar.
Shaggy thanks for the awnser i guess it depends on the characters history with the other characters, it probably works beter if your a wizard or something fairly usefull in a party
Remember that DND is a game you play with a group, it's about teamwork. The DM plays the bad guys AND the cool NPC's AND he discribes the world, etc.. There is more to the job than rolling attacks and slinging spells at friends. If a player would take up the role of the bad guy however, he doesn't do any other stuff. Turning him into an antagonist, striving to destroy, or atleast use or mislead the party. It also means that you can't play with your friends anymore, which is just a waste of a good night playing. The alright-let's-move-over-to-your-now-evil-friend-scenario for 20 minutes, while your good friends sit there bored out of their mind while they can do nothing but listen to you plotting their demise will very probably start annoying them very, very soon.
To sum up: The role of the antagonist should be reserved for the DM ONLY. Because playing in two teams (bad vs. good) takes a lot of time and will cause irritation amongst your group.
I'll end with some personal advise to you: Don't worry about your character dying. Your DM (if he's a decent one) is not looking to screw you over and kill your character you've worked so hard for to create, he just wants everybody to enjoy the game. So if you create a cool character who fits the story he won't just kill you off. Really. I've DMed for years now, so I know what I am talking about. And btw.. If he gets killed than you get to make a cool new character
Also, if you insist on the thema of a character affraid of dying, make a character who has lost his friends to death. Make him concerned about his friends and about himself. That way you don't have to be evil, or neutral. Playing a good character is great for making friends. Try it for once.
[. . .] would the party attack him as he is now an undead simply because of that, or would they simply let him go just the one time because he died in the cause of good?
assuming he is let go, what does he do then, go after them?
I'll try to give you a very simple answer.
(1) They're probably still too busy fighting the rest of the orcs to notice, or immediately kill you. Do not worry about this.
(2) Depending on the god the cleric and paladin worship, they may let you go, or they may try to kill you. A paladin, to be fair, might let you escape *for now* because you were once his ally. Do not depend on this. Leave before they notice you and have the chance to make this choice.
(3) Why would you go after the party members, your former allies? You're a lich now, with better things to do. You do not *have* to become the bad guy of the campaign.
. . .
I would retire the character and make a new one, if I were you.
Liches are undead wizards who seek immortality and godhood. They are evil because of the unholy way they became immortal, not because they eat babies. Most of them, I'd assume are too busy with arcane experiments to even worry about adventuring anymore.
Unless the other players attack you... Ignore them. They are fleshy and mortal with lifespans. You just achieved immortality. You can pick your teeth after dinner, and discover you just spent 400 years doing it. Why would you even *care* about these insignificant beings anymore?
Becoming a lich, to me, means my character is no longer playable. It's *boring.*
SUMMARY: You do not need to become the bad guy of the campaign. If the players kill you, remember you'll reappear and reform later, way away from the other players. Retire this character and make a new one to join the party, and rejoin the game.
Here's how I imagine becoming a lich: "So... Like, I'm immortal and undead now? Phylactery's hidden? Cool. Later guys, I'm off to my wizard's tower for a few hundred years, while you grow old and die. It's been real, though. <>"
Narvar i'm not being a jerk i'm simply asking about a dilema which is easily possible within D&D now its all fair and good when it happens to the bad guy for the obvious rotue is to destory the bad guy. But what happens when it happens to a party member. you don't have to do it to yourself you could get taken prisoner and experimented by a lich who uses your life force to make a Phylactery, or your given a necless which turns you into an intelligent zombie or something similar.
Shaggy thanks for the awnser i guess it depends on the characters history with the other characters, it probably works beter if your a wizard or something fairly usefull in a party
It is being a jerk if every time you play your character your alignment keeps changing so that you end up evil and cause friction with the party. I can understand not wanting your charater to die, but give your DM some credit for not going out of his way to make that happen.
Stop playing selfishly. Let another player be the party's faceman so that you won't start torturing NPCs for information. Let someone else handle getting information. Don't play a rogue or any character that likes to do things by himself. It's ok to make a character who can handle himself well solo, just don't play/make one who absolutely wants to.
If you play a spellcaster, don't cast harmful spells with party members in the area of effect. It doesn't matter if it's the "best possible spell" and will slay the bad guy instantly, just don't. Cast some other harmful spell that only affects the bad guys or a beneficial spell that helps the party. Let someone else "get the kill" if necessary.
If you play a cleric, don't be selfish with healing. It's fine to heal yourself, but don't hoard it. Cast buff spells on others. You can have your Divine Power and Slay Living moments, but share your spells. Cleric spells are good at that. Play to their strengths.
If you play a dedicated warrior, mind your CON and AC. Build your character to fight well. Develop combat tactics with others. Help the rogue to flank. Attack the bad guy targetting the wizard. Get some buff spells cast upon you. You're going to be damaged. Grin and bear it. Don't go crying to the cleric just because you're at 45 out of 60 hit points. If the cleric wants to heal you when at that 45 hit points, fine of course, just don't make an issue of it. Don't retreat to drink a potion of healing. Keep fighting. When you're at 50% hit point capacity then you can let the cleric know some healing would be appreciated. When you're at 25% or lower then you can think of taking a more defensive posture, such as drinking a healing potion.
Each combat is unique. Circumstances will have you change tactics. Just remember you are not in a combat alone. You have a party with you.
the options are simple
1) retire
2) kill the party
3) convince the party to take them with you
4) get the party to let you got (all of the above besides number 3 can still link to number one which leads to retirement)
5) escape and retire
it is niether selfish or greedy to pro-long life even in any form if this is true everyone with a pacemaker should be shot, anyone who has had surgery to get there stomach pumped or to remove a cancerious tumor should also be shot, by your logic abortian is a good thing, because there was no life to begin with.
if necromancy was real i would personaly hunt you down, kill you and revive you as a mindless zombie just so you would be my *****
Each combat is unique. Circumstances will have you change tactics. Just remember you are not in a combat alone. You have a party with you.
this is why i am asking the most unlikely of senarios, i am awae of the basics of the game it is not a crime to ask about something you are unfamiliar with, if and when i do this i will be playing a lich for the first time and would like to understand it before i jump into the deep end without a clue
oh and just for the record pal there is nothing stopping the DM saying "you can be CN lich it just depends on how determind you are to stop evil"
player: "oh i'm very detmind"
DM: "how would you stay Nuteral then"
Player:" first off i would make the Phylactery normaly but then bless it and charge it with positive energy afterwards so the two become at a perfect counter balance with a take 20 + max ranks in alchemy +2 for being a gnome i should be able to figure out some way of changing the energies varience enough to bring negative energy to the grey area called "Nuteral"
DM: "ok but i'll demand twice as much gold and another 1/25th of the exp FROM the exp you've already spend (for those who are not aware this will be the price 240,000 gp and 4,8192 XP )
Player: "Deal"
Wanting to become a lich is not evil as it is just a method of extending your own life to some and there for not evil, its pointless in waiting for the cleric to revive you because typically in D&D once your character dies you make a new one the cleric forgets about your old one so nessacery steps must be taken)
There are rules for this in the Eberron campaign setting ánd in Exalted deeds.
When you go bad, you become the DM's NPC. Typically, in doing it, you become more powerful.
Then The DM tries his / her best to kill the party as you.,
Your fault for letting it even get close to going there, because bad in SW is all about choice.
What others are saying about selfish RP is true.
You are suborning the group's (typical) social contract to play evil, for your own purposes, with the convenient excuse that it is prolonging your PC's life, even when it is greatly detrimental to the party, and party functioning as a whole.
What some are saying here is: Let the PC die. Get a new one. You didn't want your PC to die? Play more carefully..be more cautious.
In my campaign you come to me, saying, "Okay, my guy is not gonna die, he's gonna do this deal with demons or witches, or whatnot, and gonna be this kick ass lich...I can't wait, I can feel the power!!1~1!!~1!~1!~!
I say sure, write it up, then you hand it to me, and I play it (not you) and as a bad guy, over time, use it to try to destroy the party, which demonstrates that evil should be stopped cold, before it festers.
Same with my Star Wars Campaign, same with any Game I run.