However, it might come to the point where I am forced to FIGHT this brand-new Blackguard (we use Pathfinder Rules), and I was wondering if anyone had a suggestion on how to escape (or fight) a 10th level ex-paladin, 10th level Blackguard?
How is it that this guy thinks he can necessarily *take* the rest of the party? Blackguards aren't bad and all, but level 10 BG/ level 10 anti-paladin isn't even in the running for "heavily optimized", let alone "can crush the rest of the party solo".
From what I can gather about his character in comparison to the rest of us is the following:
He has extremely high health and constitution (he is a dwarf, so I can't poison him) and has roughly half the total health in the group (I'm not a physical fighter binder, so I can't go toe-to-toe)
He has fairly good saves, but lacks in Reflex (which I hope to seriously exploit)
The player is smart, and takes the time to work things out, so I can't really outsmart him effeciently
He comes with companions that I lack the ability to deal with easily, like undead minions that are immune to turning, and a bat familiar that can't take damage or something
He tends to get the lion's share of magical items since we randomize loot and mostly its melee stuff, and weapons we can't use, so he outranks me in itemization (hopefully not for long, muahahahahaha)
He will most likely assasinate us one at a time, removing our ability to fight back as well (without our rogue, we lack the burst damage, without the cleric, we miss buffs, without me, we lack the jack-of-all trades and ranged firepower)
However, if it comes to a head on fight, he's going to lose (unless the DM wants him to win, then you're all boned). I'm not to familiar with Pathfinder rules, but the standard Blackguard doesn't automatically get undead minions, though he does get a fiendish companion which isn't such a big deal. Just stall for the cleric to buff themselves into a defensive powerhouse and then have him go toe to toe with the guy. If you're worried about 1 on 1 assaninations then just make sure you guys are never apart and that he's never the only one awake at any given time.
Tell the DM up front that you didn't play a character this long just to have him killed off by another party member and you'd rather him escape and become an NPC or something like that. Is everyone else happy with how this is going to pan out? Don't think I'd want to join a group where the main premise is that one of the characters is going to turn evil and try to kill the rest of the party.
However, if it comes to a head on fight, he's going to lose (unless the DM wants him to win, then you're all boned). I'm not to familiar with Pathfinder rules, but the standard Blackguard doesn't automatically get undead minions, though he does get a fiendish companion which isn't such a big deal. Just stall for the cleric to buff themselves into a defensive powerhouse and then have him go toe to toe with the guy. If you're worried about 1 on 1 assaninations then just make sure you guys are never apart and that he's never the only one awake at any given time.
Yeah I agree I don't see him winning....
My suggestion is to hope he doesn't start with you...the best survival tip ever is this.
'You Don't have to run faster then the bear. You just have to run faster than your friends...if you can't shoot friend in leg'
The thing is I am guessing because of the other campaign is he is going to win right? Pretty much you guys are just RPing out a historical event?
Let it be known out of character that you intend to kill the paladin in his sleep when he reaches level 19. See how the player reacts.
This whole situation is utterly ridiculous.
Let it be known out of character that you intend to kill the paladin in his sleep when he reaches level 19. See how the player reacts.
Wouldnt that throw a spanner in the wheels of the "50 years later" campain ?
I'm assuming the paladin is the BBEG in that campain.
This whole situation is utterly ridiculous.
Let it be known out of character that you intend to kill the paladin in his sleep when he reaches level 19. See how the player reacts.
This.
Then when the ensuing "meta game" argument breaks out, point out that the newly-minted blackguard, being a smart guy, might catch the whiff of failure after his attempted assassination (which in and of itself makes no sense - "I'm bad, but I'm also smart. I know! I'll take on this entire group!") and decide to flee. Thus guaranteeing that he is available to be the star NPC in the future campaign, but also preventing the existing PCs from having to accept the bullsh!t story of "Hey, I'm going to turn bad and kill you all."
Additionally, your PCs (who I would assume are also in the vicinity of L20) should be getting opportunities to sniff out that someone has vomited in the petunias...not all is well under Mr. Grumblemuffin's helmet.
That player is a douchebag. You can tell him I said so. Been in this game for 30-odd years, and done my share of turnovers like this, but never, have I ever, just made the blanket assumption that it's okay to just tell everyone "I'm gonna kill you all now, kkthxbye."
T
I really think that it is possible for my character to survive, because there is so little focus on the other characters other than the blackguard. In fact, our cleric is the resident healbot in our second champaign, having lost his faith due to the betrayal (doesn't hinder casting buckets of heal spells however).
Does anyone have specific tactics to use (or avoid!) when facing blackguards? he will be level 20, plus will have all the benefits of ex-paladin. I know I will be sticking to ranged combat, but what vestigses should I use? I was thinking Amon, for breath of fire, Geryon for flight and acid sight, and Balam for the Ice Sight, which stacks with acid sight, and makes for one hell of a gaze attack.
One last thing, noob question, what is a BBEG?
Stick with range, and flying might be a good option as well.
I would, in this order (run any ideas past your DM on the agreement that the dwarf is kept completely and utterly out of the loop):
Poison the bat, or catch it in a sack and drown it. Can't take damage? See how you like sleeping with the fishes in this fine cloth-of-steel satchel with a handy five-pound sinker, fuzzball.
Undead minions? Well, your cleric who lost his faith can control them now instead of dispelling them. He's got just as much at stake here as you do. Cleric can then order them "Follow dwarf's orders, except where they involve interfering with my actions or those of JOAT. You will ignore JOAT's existence completely." Dwarf will have no reason to expect anything is wrong, because they will behave just as they always have.
Next, get him drunk, really filthy stinking drunk (because Moradin appreciates a good drinker), and help him up to his room. Once he's in bed, set the piano-wire snare around his head, which runs outside to a nice bigger-than-dwarven-weight that your two human/orc friends you hired a few days ago helped you string up just outside and below his window. (Suggestion: half a side of beef, hang it under the awning to keep it dry. "I got a good deal on it, and I like beef. I'm gonna dry some for jerky on our next trip, make steaks with the rest, and pay for the butcher with a portion of it.")
Then wait half an hour, clang some pots in his room, watch him sit up in alarm, the noose tightens, snaps the restraint on the weight (or you smile and pull the string while he goes "huh?" in a drunken haze), and the wire either decapitates him outright or he dangles suspended by one of his vertebrae, bleeding out on the floor. Watch his feet twitch for the fun of it, but don't get close until he's not dripping any more. Once he stops bleeding, get in there with a steel arrow, rapier or a really thin knife and show him what "perforated" means.
If you want to really show him what dark is, cut him up and feed him to the town dogs. Or maybe donate the meat to the local orphanage for stew. All the dogs will love you, you can make a little pillow with hearts on it from his beard hair, and his Blackguard sponsor can still scrape up enough blood off the floor to resurrect him.
If he's that much of a BBEG, his dear emperor can pay the 5k for a raise dead diamond or something, preferably involving a loud breathing mask (and maybe a ball-gag), and Grumblemuffin's now got a real reason to turn evil. In either case, you're rid of him as a PC. Maybe fifty years from now, he's a Death Knight, driven by the evil purpose that he was out-eviled by some flimsy JOAT fifty years ago. Shame works wonders for a motivator, just ask Ted Haggard.
Just a thought ).
T
P.S. Alternatively, set weak wooden stairs to collapse under him and drop him into a pre-prepared steel or iron coffin (i.e., you pay a wizard to lock it and reinforce it properly against douchebag), and just sink it in the river. Most dwarves don't like water, and the bubbles will stop after a while.
P.P.S. Rot grubs also come to mind. He's not a paladin any more, so no free "rid myself of disease."
Options: Summon and control a half-dozen Balors. Send them to kill the dwarf in the middle of the night. Orders are to, say, destroy the inn and kill everybody inside, but focus on the dwarf if he tries to escape. No more paladin, no more Smite Evil!
Have the cleric buff himself into the zone of undetectableness, and scribe a bunch of say, explosive runes all over his walls, on his armor, etc. Sepia Snake Sigils, or Symbols of X also work. Meteor Swarm also can be a good way for him to wake up, and just keep doing it, because we love the pretty fireworks.
Plane Shift him to the Far Realm.
Contingency spells. Bluff him into thinking that he has contingency spells for healing, when they are the reverse, inflict spells. He won't know what hit him. :D
Go find an Elder Wyrm Gold Dragon, and tell him that he can stop the rise of a great evil, and expand his horde to boot. Go torch the inn with him, preferably in conjunction with the meteor swarm method. NOTE: The more Elder Wyrm Golds you can find, the better.
Get some Real paladins in on this. Gray Guards, since he isn't evil yet, so you have back-up when you go head to head.
After you kill him, find someone to cast Trap the Soul on him, and then give it to previously mentioned Dragons to keep.
Any combination of the above, preferably as many as possible at once, and your problem is solved. Or you can find a sphere of annihilation, and throw it into a well of many worlds........:whistle:
EDIT: Replace Balors with Pit Fiends and promise his soul as payment. Shrink Item and some shurikens, and plant them in his food. Chuck him into a well of many worlds. Chuck him into a portable hole, and then sell it to somebody (You can't take something out of a hole if you don't know it's there....(Better for the gem his soul is trapped in)).
As far as dealing with him at level 20, don't. He's going to have to be in full evil swing before Level 10, right? Once he's obviously gone full-on bad guy, talk to the rest of the group and either --
1. Have the party eject the character (not player) because he's become someone you don't want to associate with, or
2. Have the party kill the character because he's become a villain.
this assumes you have the standard good-to-neutral party, of course.
Best method to deal with him.. cut off his hands, his feat, his eyes, his tounge and neuter him. Then throw him into the city. Lets see him make a pact with some evil things then!
he makes pacct to get all those back.
in return he must sacrifice 100 virgins.....
Two questions:
1. How do they go about cutting bits off ?
I assume the DM or the paladin simply wont just let them.
2. Why would he sacrifice himself ?
It makes no sense to me.
2) Obviously he is a virgin.
(He being the palidin.)
he's going to kill the whole party in the future....right...
if he gets in the way of your research, you're going to just off him....right...
what about a party concept where the players all work together towards the same goals? you aren't going to have fun if he just kills you? what the hell makes you think he'll have fun if you need to "off" him to continue your research?!?
to answer the question, which i see as rather pointless anyways at this point (as all the people are apparently following their own ends, and woe to anyone in their way): when he attacks you, run away. He ain't catching you in full plate
1) he is in a duel to the pain.
2) Obviously he is a virgin.
(He being the palidin.)
1) So you are suggesting an up front confrontation as a solution to the OP's problem ?
2) Still doesnt make any sense, why sacrifice 99 virgins and himself, when he could just as easely sacrifice an extra virging and keep breathing ?
I'm not trying to flame you or anything, your post just made me go "huh...I don geddit"
what about a party concept where the players all work together towards the same goals?
Naaah this is more fun
Seriously though I am assuming all players are on board with all this cloak and dagger stuff going on in their campains.
The OP is asking for specific tips on how to take down a blackguard, what spells would be most efficient etc.
Sadly I can offer no aid in that since I don't know the system, but has been a fun topic to follow since I (DM or not) quite enjoy having atleast one evil PC in any given party myself.
This whole situation is utterly ridiculous.
Let it be known out of character that you intend to kill the paladin in his sleep when he reaches level 19. See how the player reacts.
Wouldnt that throw a spanner in the wheels of the "50 years later" campain ?
I'm assuming the paladin is the BBEG in that campain.
Make him undead then.
Or don't make stupid campaign premises.
Player won't be happy with it however, I assure you. He is dead-set on randomly going evil at level 20. In game terms this is perfectly fine, but in RP its perfectly not. In our next session with this paladin I am going to mention "hey, when do we notice you start going evil?" then mention some of the things that the above posters have said.
Thank you all for the suggestions, I really appreciate it.
Player won't be happy with it however, I assure you. He is dead-set on randomly going evil at level 20. In game terms this is perfectly fine, but in RP its perfectly not. In our next session with this paladin I am going to mention "hey, when do we notice you start going evil?"
I like this.
Maybe its brought on from such close proximity to Vestiges, my tiny mind couldn't handle it so well.
The whole situation slaps me on the knee, this thread is totally hilarious.
1) he is in a duel to the pain.
2) Obviously he is a virgin.
(He being the palidin.)
1) So you are suggesting an up front confrontation as a solution to the OP's problem ?
2) Still doesnt make any sense, why sacrifice 99 virgins and himself, when he could just as easely sacrifice an extra virging and keep breathing ?
I'm not trying to flame you or anything, your post just made me go "huh...I don geddit"
1) See Princess Bride.
2) He is making a pact with an evil creature. Evil Creatures are bastards like that.
1) he is in a duel to the pain.
2) Obviously he is a virgin.
(He being the palidin.)
1) So you are suggesting an up front confrontation as a solution to the OP's problem ?
2) Still doesnt make any sense, why sacrifice 99 virgins and himself, when he could just as easely sacrifice an extra virging and keep breathing ?
I'm not trying to flame you or anything, your post just made me go "huh...I don geddit"
1) See Princess Bride.
2) He is making a pact with an evil creature. Evil Creatures are bastards like that.
1) Good call, havent seen that movie in a few years.
2) Fair enough
Everyone: Ok.
Later ...
DM: Congratulations everyone. You're level 3!
Everyone: Yay!
Later that same level ...
DM: You are on watch. It's quiet. What do you do?
You: I kill the paladin in his sleep. I decided that at level 3 I'm turning evil and killing all paladins on sight. The rest of the party is safe. I like them. Now that the donkey cavity is gone we can actually have fun.
In any case if you must do something, I think throwing yourself head first against it (attempting to gank the blackguard before he kills the party) won't be the answer. Here's what I would do:
1. Poll the party. Does everyone else think this is cool? If yes, you're the odd man out, suck it up and play along, make the best damn roleplay out of it you can - die cursing the blackguard's name to the gods, vow to haunt him eternally with your dying breath, etc, whatever. Everyone else think this is lame and hates it? Move on to step 2.
2. Talk to the DM. As a group. Present your side, ask the DM to give the group a fair situation. If the DM is reasonable, he should agree. If he insists you all must die to serve his plot, move on to step 3.
3. Poll the party again. The DM clearly doesn't give two coppers about what the party wants, is it worth it to keep playing? If no, quit game, find new DM. If yes, you want to keep playing with this DM for whatever reason (and I'm sure there'll be some) move on to step 4.
4. Plan the most awesome sabotage ever. Make sure everyone else in the party is in full agreement without spilling the beans to the BG player or the DM. Don't work to avoid what the BG and the DM are planning - just work to make it entirely less awesome as they clearly think it will be. Suggestions might include:
- everyone saves the money and makes arrangements to be resurrected in the event of their death. (Beware: the DM will probably sabotage this, but it is a consideration)
- Level 19 one chosen character wakes up at night and coup de grace everyone (pre-planned, so everyone just agrees and auto-dies) except the blackguard, then lays back down and goes to sleep. Morning, feign complete ignorance. If blackguard attacks, flee screaming bloody murder.
- Level 19, one chosen character has an epiphany - turning to his companions he preaches to his friends the error of their ways in choosing a path of violence - plan a speech, make it fancy - have everyone roleplay being moved by this stirring speech, everyone throws down their weapons and declares to devote their lives to nonviolence and join a local good temple doing charity work for the poor or something equally anti-climatic
- Low-to-Mid level party invents an evil deity (may I suggest Banjo the Clown?) and starts their own evil cult and continually try to convince the paladin to join it. When the paladin finally does snap and kills the first character, have all the other characters immediately jump up and congradulate the blackguard on finally joining their cause, make it clear they've been expecting him to do this for a long time and were pleased he finally chose X character since obviously that person was weak in his faith to Fake Evil Deity. Continue in this vein even if the blackguard continues to slay the group.
I could keep going, but I think those illustrate pretty well what I'm suggesting. Let the BG and DM have their lame railroad, if you must go, go down in flames - one way or another.
Batman carries a sliver of Kryptonite in his utility belt for a reason
Yep. The same reason Tony Stark built the ThorBuster and HulkBuster armor.
"Keep your friends close: keep your enemies closer." - ancient Chinese proverb
Personally I thoroughly dislike pvp encounters. They get in the way of what's happening and they tend to be completely divorced from any sense of reality. There's a reason why adventurers group together, and that because they notice a particular flaw in the group dynamic and they seek to correct it with more personnel. As everybody in the group realises that the strength of PCs come from their colleagues, as the whole of the group is greater than the sum of it's parts (GENERALLY).
Nothing good generally comes from pvp.
That being said, sometimes it's unavoidable ... but this usually derides itself from the fact that the group didn't tell the promblem pc to get lost in the first place.
But in this case you have a campaign that will have the party's paladin down the line betray everybody else...? As a part of it' story arc? So far down the track?
I think the question to ask is 'why?' beyond aything else. To both the offending player and the DM.
So the DM integrated an eventual pvp showdown into their campaign? I suppose the ultimate question you could ask is 'why?'
Personally I thoroughly dislike pvp encounters. They get in the way of what's happening and they tend to be completely divorced from any sense of reality. There's a reason why adventurers group together, and that because they notice a particular flaw in the group dynamic and they seek to correct it with more personnel. As everybody in the group realises that the strength of PCs come from their colleagues, as the whole of the group is greater than the sum of it's parts (GENERALLY).
Nothing good generally comes from pvp.
That being said, sometimes it's unavoidable ... but this usually derides itself from the fact that the group didn't tell the promblem pc to get lost in the first place.
But in this case you have a campaign that will have the party's paladin down the line betray everybody else...? As a part of it' story arc? So far down the track?
I think the question to ask is 'why?' beyond aything else. To both the offending player and the DM.
I would have to agree with you here.
As a Dungeon Master or Game Master I would usually shut down such an inpending confrontation like that immediately, unless it somehow served the scenario or the party as a whole. Not that I enjoy or encourage strong-arming players into playing their characters a certain way, but such an encounter is very detramental to the party and overall moral.
As a player, I would also challenge both the other player and the DM as to why this is even necessary. I don't have enough facts to judge, but it appears as though the character with the paladin is being a little self-serving, and why the DM would allow this is a head-scratcher.
There may be a reason for this, but like you said, such things rarely end well.
Remind him also that the campaign can still proceed as written even if the dwarf confronts the party and is defeated. He's a blackguard - death is a barrier they violate as a matter of course. Yeah, he's put a burden on the rest of you to write your characters far enough out of the story that they can't come back and overshadow the new heroes, but there are limitless possibilities as long as he is amenable to letting the betrayal of the party occur organically, without a specific outcome.
Unless the paladin's player refuses to settle for any condition other than total victory, then everyone can still come away from this happy. If the paladin's player does refuse to settle for less, then one of you going home disappointed is a preferable outcome to all but one of you doing so, is it not?
Thank you all so much for the comments, I really appreciate em (especially Thomas.J.Theobald, your comment makes me laugh) And it is in-character for me to kill the paladin because 1. im a binder, hes a paladin, we are like tom and jerry, 2. his paladin treats me like a doormat (player is a nice guy tho) because the paladin hates magic in general, and 3. at a later date, he might be getting in the way of my advancement of Vestige Research, which makes him a dead man (dwarf?).
I really think that it is possible for my character to survive, because there is so little focus on the other characters other than the blackguard. In fact, our cleric is the resident healbot in our second champaign, having lost his faith due to the betrayal (doesn't hinder casting buckets of heal spells however).
Does anyone have specific tactics to use (or avoid!) when facing blackguards? he will be level 20, plus will have all the benefits of ex-paladin. I know I will be sticking to ranged combat, but what vestigses should I use? I was thinking Amon, for breath of fire, Geryon for flight and acid sight, and Balam for the Ice Sight, which stacks with acid sight, and makes for one hell of a gaze attack.
One last thing, noob question, what is a BBEG?
How to make a Blackguard your woman in 18 second
round 1
wizards/sorcerrer
Ray of clumsyness
cleric
entangle
round 2
wizards casts protection form evil on whoever is getting close
cleric casts deathward on whoever is getting close
round 3
person geting close stands ready to protect
wizards casts high level summon monster
cleric casts high level summon monster
repeat round 3 over and over and over. as nessicesary
also consider this if running becomes the only option a blachguard in that heavy ass armor is not getting around a wall of force/ iron/ ice any time soon don't be greedy and try to hurt him with it just baracade run and regroup. blackguards have as near as I can remember have no ablity to port.
also potions of protection form evil for everyone and some way of getting deathward on everyone really wouldn't hurt.
But what levels are you guys now?
For instance, will the campaign even play out that long or is this idle speculation?
Odds are that there are still plenty of crazy spells out there, so if you have more levels to go, you can stockpile all sorts of things.
And I agree protection vs. evil gear makes sense even on a normal basis, so worth having a bunch of.
In the next campaign, fighting an-ex hero you're familiar with outside of the game could be fun. If you want your NPC to live, that's fine. Talk to the DM or the other player, escape, whatever, but that would be the best move rather than relying on teaming up on the guy. How do the other players feel? Are they fine with being part of the story set up? If so, maybe you can't depend on getting their help, in which case not talking to the DM or player may lead to having the outcome you had been trying to avoid.
Everyone's treating it like the player engineered all of this himself and is on a power trip, when it would appear the DM is at least part of the plan, seemingly. Of course, the best way to counter this is to go on your own power trip and kill the player, ruining the campaign just because. I don't really buy that as the mature option, but admittedly I've never had to deal with this sort of thing.
anyway I found out about this as a player Rather quickly but every time my character would logicaly be able to figure out that something was up. like the rest of the part is averaging 12,000 gold in times and he is sitting nearer to 25,000 (I had a 20 intelligence and a solid wisdom I could do the mathin my opinion.) any attempt to find out what was going on was automaticallybranded as "meta-gaming". finallywhen I was getting close after 5 levels of trying to figure it out without "meta-gaming" I warned him out of game that I was close and that he should stop or at least cut back. he did not if anything he got bolder. when I did find out what he did I tricked him and teleported him to the top of a platue in the middle of a desert I had happened upon in my many teleportations. I then hit him with magic/ psionics at a distance turning him into a drooling mess temporallyI stripped him of anything of any value left him 3 days rations and a full water skin (enough to get to the nearest town if he didn't break his leg in the climb down and didn't dawdle). and a note saying "if I ever see you again I won't be as generous." and I left.
the was met by even further issue. apparently a chaotic good person wouldn't do that to a person they had traveled with so long even if they where obviously stealing from him all this time. and the player was pissed because he had to make a new character. I am telling you this 1. because I think its a great way to get rid of someone and I wanted to share it. but for another because I want to get some options.
is it meta-gaming to get suspicious when the person trusted to buy and sell equipment with no side income beside picking the occasional commoners pocket has noticeably better and more of everything? was it an unfair reaction that after knowing the full extent of his treachery I took back what was stolin (dividing it fairly among the party) and effectivly banished the rogue?
and on another note am I over reacting? I mean yes I got a little bent out of shaping knowing that I was being stolen from in game (I think we all get screwed over enough in our actual lives as it is we dont need our friend doing it to us in game). but I didn't let it effect me out of game and it's not like I took him to the desert and left him with nothing I took his character there and left him with nothing. I honestly don't see it as an overreaction to literaly 14 levels of getting screwed over by the guy. but if people feel otherwise please let me know.
You left him rations and water, and a reasonable ability to survive.. not without any hope. He was a higher level rogue, could easily recover.
I know because I have done it.. (and I wasn't even solid rogue levels)
I suppose you can argue that this is legitimate role playing, but if your character does it in my party, and I catch you, your character will die. And not pleasantly.
As a DM, if I see it, I will do my best to play things straight, but I'll tell the player straight up that I don't like that kind of crap and that I'll give the other characters every possible chance to catch the thief.
If one were so brazen as to be wearing equipment nobody else in the party could afford, that would be all the proof my character would be likely to need to decide to teach the thief a lesson.
By that point my character will have probably moved off and gone on his own adventure, searching for more binder knowledge. The minute I hit 20, and finish the champaign, my character is off. He is leaving the night after, and the paladin will have nothing to kill, since the rogue is damn near impossible to catch now, let alone at 20th level. And the Cleric can't die, he is in the second champaign as an npc.
Thanks to the above posts, I will talk to the only other player in "danger" of losing a character, and tell him to either come with me (the paladin and cleric don't like him much more than my binder) or to go off on his own adventures.
Essentially, everyone wins.
I don't know if I mentioned it before, in above posts, but both the player and the DM have decided that the paladin will turn evil. I can't talk either one out of it. I feel kinda helpless that I not only know (metagamingly) that the paladin will turn evil, but that he will kill the entire party (or try to) when he does.
By that point my character will have probably moved off and gone on his own adventure, searching for more binder knowledge. The minute I hit 20, and finish the champaign, my character is off. He is leaving the night after, and the paladin will have nothing to kill, since the rogue is damn near impossible to catch now, let alone at 20th level. And the Cleric can't die, he is in the second champaign as an npc.
Thanks to the above posts, I will talk to the only other player in "danger" of losing a character, and tell him to either come with me (the paladin and cleric don't like him much more than my binder) or to go off on his own adventures.
Essentially, everyone wins.
Yeah, this is probably a better course of action than "duke it out". Maybe they have a compelling story idea, hell, maybe your characters will show up in the next campaign as well.
OOC, let them know, but put up contingency spells, and let the dm know if the paladin metagames, its over. As soon as someone in the party attacks another..teleport activated.
Leave at 19. Tell the Paladin directly, ic 'Ok it was fun, but now I'm going on my own, Ive got things to do'
oh heck no, tell the other player only and leave via the thieves' highway and take other party member with you at lvl 19.
if other party member /doesdoesnt wish to go, take the thieves highway and just bail in the middle of the night.
thieves highway=sewer and roof tops.
you tell the paladin directly and plans could be rushed and he turns evil early....
I don't know pathfinder, but it seems to me that as annoying as it is to have your character's fate so blithely pre-determined, I don't see anything you doing will successfull change it. Have you even talked to the DM? (I'm assuming no)
In any case if you must do something, I think throwing yourself head first against it (attempting to gank the blackguard before he kills the party) won't be the answer. Here's what I would do:
1. Poll the party. Does everyone else think this is cool? If yes, you're the odd man out, suck it up and play along, make the best damn roleplay out of it you can - die cursing the blackguard's name to the gods, vow to haunt him eternally with your dying breath, etc, whatever. Everyone else think this is lame and hates it? Move on to step 2.
2. Talk to the DM. As a group. Present your side, ask the DM to give the group a fair situation. If the DM is reasonable, he should agree. If he insists you all must die to serve his plot, move on to step 3.
3. Poll the party again. The DM clearly doesn't give two coppers about what the party wants, is it worth it to keep playing? If no, quit game, find new DM. If yes, you want to keep playing with this DM for whatever reason (and I'm sure there'll be some) move on to step 4.
4. Plan the most awesome sabotage ever. Make sure everyone else in the party is in full agreement without spilling the beans to the BG player or the DM. Don't work to avoid what the BG and the DM are planning - just work to make it entirely less awesome as they clearly think it will be. Suggestions might include:
- everyone saves the money and makes arrangements to be resurrected in the event of their death. (Beware: the DM will probably sabotage this, but it is a consideration)
- Level 19 one chosen character wakes up at night and coup de grace everyone (pre-planned, so everyone just agrees and auto-dies) except the blackguard, then lays back down and goes to sleep. Morning, feign complete ignorance. If blackguard attacks, flee screaming bloody murder.
- Level 19, one chosen character has an epiphany - turning to his companions he preaches to his friends the error of their ways in choosing a path of violence - plan a speech, make it fancy - have everyone roleplay being moved by this stirring speech, everyone throws down their weapons and declares to devote their lives to nonviolence and join a local good temple doing charity work for the poor or something equally anti-climatic
- Low-to-Mid level party invents an evil deity (may I suggest Banjo the Clown?) and starts their own evil cult and continually try to convince the paladin to join it. When the paladin finally does snap and kills the first character, have all the other characters immediately jump up and congradulate the blackguard on finally joining their cause, make it clear they've been expecting him to do this for a long time and were pleased he finally chose X character since obviously that person was weak in his faith to Fake Evil Deity. Continue in this vein even if the blackguard continues to slay the group.
I could keep going, but I think those illustrate pretty well what I'm suggesting. Let the BG and DM have their lame railroad, if you must go, go down in flames - one way or another.
LOL Great post! Nothing says "stop railroading us" as beautifully as characters that decide not to fight it and turn the BG and the DM's planned glory into dust.
Another idea on this passive/aggressive line, if you can get the other players to agree: Tell the DM that since the future is all planned out, you want to stop playing this campaign NOW and go on to the other campaign. Say that it's not worth it to continue with these characters, since you already know what their outcome will be. No, none of you are interested in playing out the grand scene in which you are betrayed. The DM can briefly sumarize it in the next campaign. You're all ready to roll your new characters.
Hopefully this will make it clear to the DM that he is railroading, and he'll stop trying to do that in the future. Like ChimericPhase's suggestions, it also steals the glory of the final betrayal scene, making the DM summarize it into a few paragraphs.
You could make a winter hat and cape from his skin, and in the next campaign one of your PCs has the set. "Oh, sorry, were these yours? Finders keepers!" [blows raspberries] "Jeez, hoss, not much room in the cup slot, you know? No wonder you turned evil, little Daumer!"
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On a side note, if the rest of the party (or even just you) don't want to play it out (I wouldn't if the dm vetoed everything) just opt not to play. 'Oh we're running the prequel tonight? can we run the other part? I have no interest in running the prequel.' Can watch tv.. and if the dm starts describing the 'final' fight in mroe than a summation 'thats great, I walk off from the cystal ball, is there a good tavern near?'
Hammergun.
If you somehow kill the Paladin in advance, they'll just accuse you of metagaming and say it didn't happen.
If you plan to escape immediately following the campaign's "conclusion," I imagine something will happen immediately which makes the Paladin immortal and all-powerful without the chance of escape. (You finally slay the demon lord! What's this? The vestiges of its evilness find root in Bob the Paladin's heart? Bob becomes uber-Blackguard and kills you all even though you just beat the demon lord!)
But, if the DM is sort of "blinded" by his pet project of "the next campaign" so much, you might be able to exploit that.
Heck, the Cleric is in the next game, clearly the Paladin is -- why not your Binder?
I think your character may be a bit too "weird" for the DM to see fitting in the new world. You'd be a level 20 "spellcasting" semi-crazy adventurer vested in doing your own thing basically, which would (by reason) screw up the game world to some degree.
But what if your character becomes something like a background force of the world rather than a Ronin near-epic adventurer? Something that would help further the campaign's story rather than being a complete curveball.
I suspect maybe there's a bit of intellectual laziness going on with this DM just loving the idea of the Paladin going evil and becoming the next BBEG, so he doesn't want to "think" about how to get you all in there. So do the thinking for him, and present yourself as interested in leaving a direct impact on the campaign from the background like the other PCs do.
Maybe your character sheds his physical body and "becomes" a great force of magic, the lord of all vestiges or something like that. It isn't that unthinkable since you're pursuing knowledge and power. He can't kill you, you're an immortal force now, who grants his powers to adventurers he finds worthy.
Or you go in a similar way and become a spirit that posesses people, and you go off and form your own "magic school" to gather like-minded people and to continue your research for you essentially, while you think up crazy schemes. You come up with some mysterious pseudonym and a name for your order. Your followers might venture out into the game world to be friends or enemies of the new PCs. Maybe you want to kill that Paladin guy too, or maybe you don't care any more. Maybe he's just competition, and you influence the PCs to work against him (he's the BBEG anyway).
The reason I think you have to shed your body somehow is to make your character less directly threatening to the balance of the game world. You become something like an aloof powerful NPC that's a mover in the background but doesn't show up "on screen" ever.
But come equipped with several options, and all of them with strong backstories and ways to integrate into the next campaign, without "messing anything up" that the DM already planned.
If there's something like an "undeveloped" area of the game world, like a region or even island that never quite got any screen time, talk with the DM about commandeering that far-off place, and fleshing out what it is. Maybe an adventure can even take place within its area. Or, press him to talk to you about his "wonderful" campaign world, and try to find a good place to insert your character.
Seem like you're really really interested in the campaign world, and excited to contribute etc. and he'll probably love it.
Then, and you may have to bug him a couple of times, eventually the DM will be on your character's side also. Even if the Paladin kills your character, you can "pull an Obi-wan" and become a spirit entity as planned (with the DM) all along.
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ObiW...
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MyDe...
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Than...
EDIT: And/Or have lots of kids along the way. Leave a "legacy," hehe. Maybe even make the new PC a descendant.