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Player In Need Of Strategy Advice

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zdaren
Sep 10, 2008 14:46:43 So heres the story my dm is having a arena night were the two different groups are going to duke it out in the arena. Both parties will have 5 players at 5th level. My party archer elf ranger, eladrin two weapon fighter ranger, eladrin cleric, dragonborn fighter, tiefling paladin on a warhorse.

The other party dwarf staff wizard, human paladin, dwarf cleric, orc fighter and a elf rogue.

For the life of me I have no idea what are tactics should be or who we should focus on. I could really use some help here soon it will be starting in a couple of days.
#2
demiteddybear
Sep 10, 2008 15:57:24 Well what type of cleric, fighter and paladin do you have on your team? Because the cleric and paladin could be both healers or attackers. But from you've got you need to try and immobilize they're defenders, kill the striker (rogue) but staying widespread enough so as to make the wizard ineffective.
#3
mariposa_cdo
Sep 10, 2008 16:01:40 Well since you have eladrin and strong offensive focus, favor the tactics that will utilize them both to maximum effect.
Prioritize your targets and take them down quickly and then kill the left-overs.
Don't forget to protect your archer with a defender, preferably the paladin.

First priority: Rogue, the rogue is a striker, take him out or his abilities and sneak attacks will wear you down.
Use the Eladrin Ranger to teleport behind the rogue, target him as your quarry and cut him down as fast as you can.

Second priority: Wizard, the wizard's ability to effect more then one character is dangerous, this abilities are best to avoid.
Use the Eladrin Ranger to shot him down, or close on him fast. If you can't reach or hit him with them Use the Eladrin Cleric to teleport next to the wizard, wizards are still soft targets for the most part.

Third priority: Cleric, be the time you get to the cleric he is the softest target, and gives the most bonuses to the group, as heal/moral support the cleric will enhance the defenders.
Use the Rangers to tear him up.

Secondary priority: When you get down to paladin or fighter, attack the fighter, he has better chances to hit you back and is more offensive then the paladin, which will be easily overrun when alone.
#4
drmorganes
Sep 10, 2008 16:33:43 Keep in mind that most wizard powers can't tell the difference between allies and enemies. (There are two available to a Level 5 wizard: Force Orb and Fire Shroud.) Staying bunched together with the wizard's allies means he'll have to think carefully about using area-effect powers or risk harming his allies. Remember, too, that once a given lasting effect is in play it will harm friend and foe alike. You can push his allies into his Cloud of Daggers just as easily as his allies can slide yours. Keeping someone next to the wizard means he can't cast a spell without drawing an Opportunity Attack, and he can't move more than 1 square without doing the same.

I disagree that taking out the rogue is a high priority. Deny him combat advantage and his damage drops substantially. The cleric is far more of a threat, with the ability to enhance allies' attacks AND heal them. Remember the cleric's Healing Word is a Minor Action - and clerics don't have many other uses for Minor Actions.

I recommend focusing on the cleric first. The paladin's Lay on Hands works only on adjacent targets. Though he may be able to use it more than twice during the encounter, Lay on Hands is much less effective than Healing Word (which will add between 5 and 10 hp on top of the healing surge).

Go for offense. Keep the defenders busy and away from the others. Stay bunched to minimize the effectiveness of the wizard's area attack powers, and use those powers against your enemies when possible. Have your strikers work together to take down the same opponent; designating Quarry does not mark the target. Both rangers can have the same Quarry at the same time. Don't be afraid to make with the Daily powers as openers. If this is your only encounter, burn 'em up and burn 'em up fast. They could make all the difference.
#5
zdaren
Sep 10, 2008 18:56:16 I'm just worried about the wizard getting the jump on us. Round 1 fireball action point flaming sphere.
#6
mariposa_cdo
Sep 11, 2008 4:55:44 By fifth level the rogue have a few powers that grants him combat advantage,
and he will probably team up with a fighter against a target to gain combat advantage and sneak attack.
Because we agree that either the fighter or the paladin are the last priority,
that means that the rogue will have combat advantage until he dies.

And I recommand taking out the wizard before the cleric,
mainly because the wizards are easier to kill and then you can concentrate on the cleric.
The cleric minor action healing ward is only twice per encounter,
so that isn't the main concern, and shouldn't make him the worst threat automaticly.
First take down the striker, then the easiest prey, next the leader and then the clueless defenders.
#7
etarnon
Sep 11, 2008 10:06:16 Walk up and shake hands. Thus allied, storm the guards, slay the emperor, and take over the city.
#8
zdaren
Sep 11, 2008 14:22:12 So first rogue then wizard then cleric then paladin or defender last
#9
stanks
Sep 11, 2008 18:21:32 Is this 4e or 3.5...i havent trialled 4e yet, so I will answer like its 3.5...

Spellcasters are of huge concern at all times. They can quickly alter the outcome or change the game and take control of the situation. As the wizard I would use fly and then shield and then I would just take out a character a round with spells where you cant really do much to me. I also think something like invisibility on the rogue would be handy.

Hold person from the cleric could ruin your day. If the cleric focuses on buffs and the wizard on damage output (esp. single target damage output) then it will be a very interesting fight.

Take the rogue out of combat my having someone bull-rush and then grapple...this means they cant get combat advantage and sneak attack (unless the rogue has a high strength).

The fighter and pali I would ignore until both of the spellcasters at least are taken care of. If the rogue is tied up with a grapple then its 4v4...and if you can quickly neutralise the wizard/cleric then you will whip them good.

If your pali has a mount, this will lead to one very dead wizard very quickly...because a 5th lvl wizard (remember 3.5 here) will only have around 20 hp...and successful charge and that will be mostly gone...then hit him with the archer when he casts for the kill.

As much as you can gang up the opposition.

Although I do like the idea of killing the emperor...but thats just me
#10
mariposa_cdo
Sep 11, 2008 19:33:48 Both DrMorganes and I were talking about fourth edition,
and from Zdaren "Round 1 fireball action point flaming sphere" and eladrin characters I bet that's what he meant too.

But just in case, in 3.x there are so many builds to characters that deciding on tactics without knowledge/intelligence might actually just get you closer to losing.
In 3.x I would suggest after the second round if you're still alive to act based on previous rounds.
Or just totaly wing it if you don't think you can survive two rounds of combat.
#11
JayM
Sep 12, 2008 10:38:12
For the life of me I have no idea what are tactics should be or who we should focus on. I could really use some help here soon it will be starting in a couple of days.

There are a lot of variable to consider. Where is the fight taking place? What magic items do you have? How is the enemy deploying? Are these guys built using PC rules or Monster rules?

If you can, gather some intelligence. What spells do the enemy wizards carry? What sort of combat abilities do they have? What does the area look like?

But the basic idea is to concentrate your firepower and take out one foe, then move on. Start with the biggest threat, the wizard if your in a limited area and he can hammer you with area spells or more likely the rogue.

If you do drop somebody, it's a good time to spend an AP and finish them off. With both a paladin and cleric in the enemy party, keeping targets down may be a problem. If the enemy cleric is really optimized for healing, you might have to take him out first.

One tactic that might work well if you have the right arena to work in is to have your TWF ranger swap to a bow. When the fight starts, your party will retreat to a good firing position and force the enemy to advance on you. With two effective ranged attackers, you can sit back and hammer them until they close.

If these guys are build using PC rules they will be very different then monsters you have faced. They will have fewer hit points, but a lot more powers. The fight will be short and bloody. Don't hold back on your encounter and daily powers, throw them as soon as they are useful. And remember, they have AP also. They will be able to make moves and attacks that very few monsters could.

Jay

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zdaren Sep 10, 2008 14:46:43	So heres the story my dm is having a arena night were the two different groups are going to duke it out in the arena. Both parties will have 5 players at 5th level. My party archer elf ranger, eladrin two weapon fighter ranger, eladrin cleric, dragonborn fighter, tiefling paladin on a warhorse. The other party dwarf staff wizard, human paladin, dwarf cleric, orc fighter and a elf rogue. For the life of me I have no idea what are tactics should be or who we should focus on. I could really use some help here soon it will be starting in a couple of days.
#2 demiteddybear Sep 10, 2008 15:57:24	Well what type of cleric, fighter and paladin do you have on your team? Because the cleric and paladin could be both healers or attackers. But from you've got you need to try and immobilize they're defenders, kill the striker (rogue) but staying widespread enough so as to make the wizard ineffective.
#3 mariposa_cdo Sep 10, 2008 16:01:40	Well since you have eladrin and strong offensive focus, favor the tactics that will utilize them both to maximum effect. Prioritize your targets and take them down quickly and then kill the left-overs. Don't forget to protect your archer with a defender, preferably the paladin. First priority: Rogue, the rogue is a striker, take him out or his abilities and sneak attacks will wear you down. Use the Eladrin Ranger to teleport behind the rogue, target him as your quarry and cut him down as fast as you can. Second priority: Wizard, the wizard's ability to effect more then one character is dangerous, this abilities are best to avoid. Use the Eladrin Ranger to shot him down, or close on him fast. If you can't reach or hit him with them Use the Eladrin Cleric to teleport next to the wizard, wizards are still soft targets for the most part. Third priority: Cleric, be the time you get to the cleric he is the softest target, and gives the most bonuses to the group, as heal/moral support the cleric will enhance the defenders. Use the Rangers to tear him up. Secondary priority: When you get down to paladin or fighter, attack the fighter, he has better chances to hit you back and is more offensive then the paladin, which will be easily overrun when alone.
#4 drmorganes Sep 10, 2008 16:33:43	Keep in mind that most wizard powers can't tell the difference between allies and enemies. (There are two available to a Level 5 wizard: Force Orb and Fire Shroud.) Staying bunched together with the wizard's allies means he'll have to think carefully about using area-effect powers or risk harming his allies. Remember, too, that once a given lasting effect is in play it will harm friend and foe alike. You can push his allies into his Cloud of Daggers just as easily as his allies can slide yours. Keeping someone next to the wizard means he can't cast a spell without drawing an Opportunity Attack, and he can't move more than 1 square without doing the same. I disagree that taking out the rogue is a high priority. Deny him combat advantage and his damage drops substantially. The cleric is far more of a threat, with the ability to enhance allies' attacks AND heal them. Remember the cleric's Healing Word is a Minor Action - and clerics don't have many other uses for Minor Actions. I recommend focusing on the cleric first. The paladin's Lay on Hands works only on adjacent targets. Though he may be able to use it more than twice during the encounter, Lay on Hands is much less effective than Healing Word (which will add between 5 and 10 hp on top of the healing surge). Go for offense. Keep the defenders busy and away from the others. Stay bunched to minimize the effectiveness of the wizard's area attack powers, and use those powers against your enemies when possible. Have your strikers work together to take down the same opponent; designating Quarry does not mark the target. Both rangers can have the same Quarry at the same time. Don't be afraid to make with the Daily powers as openers. If this is your only encounter, burn 'em up and burn 'em up fast. They could make all the difference.
#5 zdaren Sep 10, 2008 18:56:16	I'm just worried about the wizard getting the jump on us. Round 1 fireball action point flaming sphere.
#6 mariposa_cdo Sep 11, 2008 4:55:44	By fifth level the rogue have a few powers that grants him combat advantage, and he will probably team up with a fighter against a target to gain combat advantage and sneak attack. Because we agree that either the fighter or the paladin are the last priority, that means that the rogue will have combat advantage until he dies. And I recommand taking out the wizard before the cleric, mainly because the wizards are easier to kill and then you can concentrate on the cleric. The cleric minor action healing ward is only twice per encounter, so that isn't the main concern, and shouldn't make him the worst threat automaticly. First take down the striker, then the easiest prey, next the leader and then the clueless defenders.
#7 etarnon Sep 11, 2008 10:06:16	Walk up and shake hands. Thus allied, storm the guards, slay the emperor, and take over the city.
#8 zdaren Sep 11, 2008 14:22:12	So first rogue then wizard then cleric then paladin or defender last
#9 stanks Sep 11, 2008 18:21:32	Is this 4e or 3.5...i havent trialled 4e yet, so I will answer like its 3.5... Spellcasters are of huge concern at all times. They can quickly alter the outcome or change the game and take control of the situation. As the wizard I would use fly and then shield and then I would just take out a character a round with spells where you cant really do much to me. I also think something like invisibility on the rogue would be handy. Hold person from the cleric could ruin your day. If the cleric focuses on buffs and the wizard on damage output (esp. single target damage output) then it will be a very interesting fight. Take the rogue out of combat my having someone bull-rush and then grapple...this means they cant get combat advantage and sneak attack (unless the rogue has a high strength). The fighter and pali I would ignore until both of the spellcasters at least are taken care of. If the rogue is tied up with a grapple then its 4v4...and if you can quickly neutralise the wizard/cleric then you will whip them good. If your pali has a mount, this will lead to one very dead wizard very quickly...because a 5th lvl wizard (remember 3.5 here) will only have around 20 hp...and successful charge and that will be mostly gone...then hit him with the archer when he casts for the kill. As much as you can gang up the opposition. Although I do like the idea of killing the emperor...but thats just me
#10 mariposa_cdo Sep 11, 2008 19:33:48	Both DrMorganes and I were talking about fourth edition, and from Zdaren "Round 1 fireball action point flaming sphere" and eladrin characters I bet that's what he meant too. But just in case, in 3.x there are so many builds to characters that deciding on tactics without knowledge/intelligence might actually just get you closer to losing. In 3.x I would suggest after the second round if you're still alive to act based on previous rounds. Or just totaly wing it if you don't think you can survive two rounds of combat.
#11 JayM Sep 12, 2008 10:38:12	For the life of me I have no idea what are tactics should be or who we should focus on. I could really use some help here soon it will be starting in a couple of days. There are a lot of variable to consider. Where is the fight taking place? What magic items do you have? How is the enemy deploying? Are these guys built using PC rules or Monster rules? If you can, gather some intelligence. What spells do the enemy wizards carry? What sort of combat abilities do they have? What does the area look like? But the basic idea is to concentrate your firepower and take out one foe, then move on. Start with the biggest threat, the wizard if your in a limited area and he can hammer you with area spells or more likely the rogue. If you do drop somebody, it's a good time to spend an AP and finish them off. With both a paladin and cleric in the enemy party, keeping targets down may be a problem. If the enemy cleric is really optimized for healing, you might have to take him out first. One tactic that might work well if you have the right arena to work in is to have your TWF ranger swap to a bow. When the fight starts, your party will retreat to a good firing position and force the enemy to advance on you. With two effective ranged attackers, you can sit back and hammer them until they close. If these guys are build using PC rules they will be very different then monsters you have faced. They will have fewer hit points, but a lot more powers. The fight will be short and bloody. Don't hold back on your encounter and daily powers, throw them as soon as they are useful. And remember, they have AP also. They will be able to make moves and attacks that very few monsters could. Jay