So I'm a little put off by this, but I hope that his cell just died or something. 30 minutes later still no players, and phone calls yeild the same result. at this point one of my players and my roommate look at eachother and say "should we tell him?"
Apperantly the guy who hung up on me rallied the other two players that weren't there and arranged to not show up to session. this REALLY upsets me, as I had worked hard on this session in particular but mostly because none of my players have mentioned anything being wrong or not having fun. I had been told that the ringleader "hates" the way I DM, but I directly confronted him on it and he's said that he does not and that he has fun in my game, I have asked the others repeatedly if they have any issues and they have always said that they do not.
Now the guy who is ringleading this has done stupid things like this before, but always as an individual, I think at this point it's time for me to drop him from game because up until this point I have been trying to make him happy as he is without a doubt my favorite player, but he just keeps taking advantage of that and comes back to screw with me again and again.
The girl that had her cell phone off talked with me 4 days before game and told me nothing was wrong and asked about character ideas she had and wanted help putting it together since she's not good with the rules, so I poured over the books for 2 hours trying to find gear or feats to help her on this one. She is probably the worst player in the group and this act after the help that I try to give her has kind of made me want to drop her from the game too.
and the third guy who at least had the decency to call me and lie to me, unlike the others, is the newest addition to the group and has once before done something that, along with this, proved that I can't trust him, so I'm thinking of dropping him as well.
You know what would suck though? Dropping three members, but with the amount that they go behind my back I'm having issues wanting to keep these people. They have spoken to me in past a couple months ago about issues and I made some changes and they said they were happy with the game after that. Then they pull this.
I have talked to them as a group as well as pulled them away for a 1 on 1 chat in case they didn't want to talk in front of the group, we have a smoke/order food break in our game and during every one I ask how their liking that session and I try really hard to be open minded. I don't rule 0 almost ever and try to listen when players have suggestions. I like to think I'm a pretty good DM but this has me feeling pretty ******. Is there anything else that you guys can think of that I can try?
Edit: just realized this is the Player thread, but I also welcome suggestions from the other side of the screen.
1. Quit the group yourself because they are idiots.
2. Tell them that one of them has to run the game and see how people react to that.
That is complete and utter bullcrap.
I just can't believe that some people would be so insensitive to the work us DMs do, especially since you've shown yourself amenable to accepting feedback. This is beyond rude.
Were these people you considered friends out of game?
Because that is a real s
thing to do to a friend.Yeah, this signals the end of your game in that form. What I recommend you do is have a long, serious talk with those who actually stayed. It sounds like they were in on this, so this is a trust issue. Talk to them, and tell them that they need to be honest and forthright with them.
Then you're going to have to do some recruiting. Ads in the Friendly Local Game store, the local comic book shop, whatever entertainment store is around, and the local college campus would be a good place to start. The ones who blew off your game like that, though, I wouldn't take back.
It's things like this that make me glad all the people in my group are friends with each other, and let me know to my face when things aren't going well.
The way they handled that was unacceptable.
Simply unacceptable.
In my opinion, they should all be booted from the group immediately. I'd never talk to the ringleader again, but I'd maintain *NON D&D* friendships with the other two if they are friends outside of D&D.
If they'd been complaining for a while that's one thing, but jeez, this is a slap in the face for no reason at all, and with no attempt at reasonable resolution beforehand.
The ringleader is an asshat, but the rest of them are not much better for following him. (The player who called is sorta off the hook, but the others are total jerks).
And if these guys are your friends... well sorry to say, but you need to find new friends. The whole thing completely unacceptable.
They are acting like you are their monkey, their little pet that needs to amuse them or it doesn't get the treat (which is them gracing you with their presence) and they shouldn't even have to communicate or even indicate something is wrong at any time, it needs to be YOU who is chasing after THEM and scooping up any little hints that they deign to drop every now and then. They are putting you in a submissive position, as if you were their maid, or as if they were paying you to DM for them, and they're expecting you to simply eat it up and comply.
Don't even think that the "ringleader" is any different from the other two. By not answering your question truthfully when you ask if there's any problem they are showing you RIGHT THERE that they have the same opinion of you than he does: "Why should I explain myself to the little monkey? It needs to be HIM who figures out what's wrong with ME without me making any effort at all."
Seriously, forget about these jokers. There are tons of better people out there.
-ness on the part of the ringleader. If I pulled this kind of crap on my DM, I would expect not to be invited back. Unlike those who say you should never talk to him, I would say you should talk to him specifically to dis-invite him! And do it in person not over the phone. I would tell him that you didn't appreciate what he did, that it was juvenile and for those reasons he was out, and that this was your decision to make. The other two I would talk to as well and see if you can salvage them, if not, boot them too.
This was handled in a completely unacceptable way, but it does seem as though something really ticked them off. As a second piece of advice I would also recommend trying to get to the bottom of the gripes and see if you can get someone to be completely honest with you. Maybe it is all a "them" issue but I would say you should do what you can to find out, probably from the guys that were honest with you in the first place.
I have talked about this once on another thread discussing gamer hygiene. I was invited to a game with some guys that hang out at the same store that I do; we were playing magic and they found out that I played D&D so they invited me. I didn't really want to go, not because they didn't seem like nice guys, or that they couldn't run a capable or interesting game. Their hygiene skills left much to be desired, so I made up some socially acceptable excuses and politely declined.
I am not saying that your hygiene or DM skills are lacking, but it sounds to me like there must be more to the story. It is possible the other half of the story is "nope, this guy is just a real
-munch !BTW, I hate that whole "should we tell him?" thing. Of course they should have told you, and they shouldn't have waited. I would also be sure to let them know in the future that you'd like to know these things up front, that you don't keep secrets from them it is just respect that they not do the same to you.
Here endeth the ramble. :P
That should do the trick
The search for committed, engaging players is a hard one. People have given a number of suggestions. You can keep some, and lose the trouble players. You can have someone else run. I'd advise not running for the bad ones, let them find their own games, or entertain themselves some other way. Don't become an enabler, and feed into the cycle. Don't open yourself up to be hurt. Because they will do it. Every time.
It's human nature.
Forget the girl, and the ringleader guy. Drop them don't bother trying to call them or track them down to have your say.
Lose the ego.
Don't bother calling them again, don't talk about them, in front of the rest. just ignore the whole issue and run the game. If the players that remain ask you how you feel about it, just be casual and say "Looks like he doesn't want to be part of it. I can find someone to replace him in the chair as a player. Her too."
Then just run your games.
I had a guy do similar except what he was doing was trying to steal my player group to run a game at the same time as I was, so that they'd dump my game for his.
In the end, I figured out the plan two weeks early, so i fired the guy from the group. One guy went with him. Two players a week later dropped out for a month, I kept running my game for the last two that stayed, those two guys that dropped came back.
Meanwhile the guy i fired and his friend floundered with no group for almost a year. No big deal.
Good luck.
In the end, I figured out the plan two weeks early, so i fired the guy from the group. One guy went with him. Two players a week later dropped out for a month, I kept running my game for the last two that stayed, those two guys that dropped came back.
You employee people to play with you?
I know you've gotten some advice about trying to talk with the ones that skipped on you in your other thread. Follow that advice. For all three of them.
Don't kick anyone out - makes you (at minimum) look like a jerk. If they don't want to play, let them drop out.
Tell them when and where D&D is and be prepared to run with whoever shows up. After a few sessions, start looking for new players to replace whoever drops out if you'd like.
2nd; If the majority of the people you choose to play with don't like how you run games & won't give you honest feedback? Stop doing it. Let one of them DM instead.
So far the advice is where I'd go; drop the ones who didn't show. Don't bother with the ringleader, OR the ones who caved to the ringleader. If they were enjoying your game, they'd have showed anyway, and if they didn't enjoy your game but had any respect/love for you, they'd have at least either showed up anyway, or warned you about what was going on.
Move on, and post ads for more players any way you can.
Talk to the two that did show up. Let them know you;d like their input on what they enjoyed, what they didn't enjoy, and what they;d look forward to. Consider also getting their input on new recruits.
Caveat: This sounds a lot like "Hey, I can DM better than he can. Come over to my place instead. Screw him," In which case, be prepared for some friendly overtures in a few weeks/months when the other two realize what a douchebag the ringleader is and want back in. Do not be fooled; Just Say No.
"Coddled cause I'm afraid of what people will think of me, if I run my game without jerk offs in it."
Whatever. People that have been there know what I mean.
Fired. I like fired. It has that air of finality in equal measure to respond in kind to:
I call the other and he doesn't seem to know who it is, when I tell him who it is and ask where he is and remind him of the day he hangs up on me when I call back, no answer.
If a guy doesn't show up for work without reason, he gets fired.
If a guy doesn't show up for a game, to the point of politically hijacking the group, all kind of back channel politics, to where to guys that DO show up are obviously in the know and have to ask "Should we TELL HIM?"
Ye gods, fire that ringleader guy. Putting up with such BS only encourages it.
Recently this week in my city a pit bull tried to eat a kid. Next door neighbor (not involved) shot the dog with a twelve gauge. how many chances does the offender get?
If this were a simple case of guy doesn't want to play.. okay let him go. No big deal. But this isn't that case. This is ringleader guy, poisoning the rest of the group, trying to be a game wrecker.
Fire the guy.
Thank you to all of you for all of the advice
But good for you, getting a new group together. I certainly couldn't get another group together if my current one asploded. I hope you had a serious talk with the two that withheld information from you. And a very serious talk with the other three that didn't even show. Assuming that you didn't just cut all of them out.
Okay, so this is something that has really been bothering me for about a week now, I thought I'd come and ask for advice. Last Thursday (game day) I get a call from one of my players, he won't be making it, so sorry. No problem, I pull out ready made NPC healer to replace him for a session and wait for the rest of the group, 2 of my other players show up and I'm waiting on the last two... and waiting... and waiting, and it's now 30 minutes after game is supposed to start, I call one of them and her Cell phone is off, I call the other and he doesn't seem to know who it is, when I tell him who it is and ask where he is and remind him of the day he hangs up on me when I call back, no answer.
So I'm a little put off by this, but I hope that his cell just died or something. 30 minutes later still no players, and phone calls yeild the same result. at this point one of my players and my roommate look at eachother and say "should we tell him?"
Apperantly the guy who hung up on me rallied the other two players that weren't there and arranged to not show up to session. this REALLY upsets me, as I had worked hard on this session in particular but mostly because none of my players have mentioned anything being wrong or not having fun. I had been told that the ringleader "hates" the way I DM, but I directly confronted him on it and he's said that he does not and that he has fun in my game, I have asked the others repeatedly if they have any issues and they have always said that they do not.
Now the guy who is ringleading this has done stupid things like this before, but always as an individual, I think at this point it's time for me to drop him from game because up until this point I have been trying to make him happy as he is without a doubt my favorite player, but he just keeps taking advantage of that and comes back to screw with me again and again.
The girl that had her cell phone off talked with me 4 days before game and told me nothing was wrong and asked about character ideas she had and wanted help putting it together since she's not good with the rules, so I poured over the books for 2 hours trying to find gear or feats to help her on this one. She is probably the worst player in the group and this act after the help that I try to give her has kind of made me want to drop her from the game too.
and the third guy who at least had the decency to call me and lie to me, unlike the others, is the newest addition to the group and has once before done something that, along with this, proved that I can't trust him, so I'm thinking of dropping him as well.
You know what would suck though? Dropping three members, but with the amount that they go behind my back I'm having issues wanting to keep these people. They have spoken to me in past a couple months ago about issues and I made some changes and they said they were happy with the game after that. Then they pull this.
I have talked to them as a group as well as pulled them away for a 1 on 1 chat in case they didn't want to talk in front of the group, we have a smoke/order food break in our game and during every one I ask how their liking that session and I try really hard to be open minded. I don't rule 0 almost ever and try to listen when players have suggestions. I like to think I'm a pretty good DM but this has me feeling pretty ******. Is there anything else that you guys can think of that I can try?
Edit: just realized this is the Player thread, but I also welcome suggestions from the other side of the screen.
Long story short, flaky, immature, D-bag players. Honestly if you were doing the WORST DM'ing ever in recorded history, and please know that I am not saying you were, these player's can't even be bothered to man up and speak their piece. Therefore its not you that is the problem, its them. The only recourse you are left with since they can't be bothered to discuss things is to drop the offending players and find new ones. My 2 cents, hope it helps.
At my games, we have a "scheduled start time", but we also encourage players to come 30-45 minutes early (and most of us do) for dinner, chatting with the hosts family and each other, etc. At the start time, we kick out the family and get down to serious gaming.
2.) Have your players provide you copies of their characters (including all skills, feats, powers, equipment, etc.) each level. Any time a player is late (or "no shows" for the entire session), pull out a copy of their character sheet and hand it to one of the other players. Make sure your players know in advance that this is the House Rule, and that if they know they will be late or absent, they may want to arrange for a specific player to run their character.
3.) Announce the new house rules to your players, and why you're making them. Find out which of them are still planning to attend, and which are dropping out. You don't need to boot them -- it sounds like they are giving themselves the boot, and that's fine.
4.) Rotate gaming locations. Don't play at your house all the time. Take turns playing at each others house -- you'll be amazed at what this does for participation. And you're guaranteed to get your group members attending at least one game session out of six.
You've got two players and a DM present, and it sounds like they were there "on time". That's enough for a game -- so play! Don't wait 30 minutes for 3 other players to show up, then call their cell phones, and wait another 30 minutes. Just play!
By starting your game on time, whether the players are there or not, you're sending the message that you aren't interested in their childish shenanigans. You don't need them to be present to have a good time.
If the players don't show up over the course of several sessions, recruit replacement players.
The last thing I would do is show concern or distress at their childish behavior.
A: Tell one of them to DM. This will be a valuable lesson for them and for you. You'll get to see things they do better than you, and they'll get to see where they screwed up too.
B: Kick them out of your group. Your game is not their university. If you choose option A, everyone's learning and growing. Personally, I'd kick their crap to the curb and leave them there, though. This is not a mature nor appropriate response to a problem in a game.
They lack the maturity and character to come to a reasonable resolution of issues, as evident by the nature of how you "found out" what was going on and why.
I'd curb-check them. Put an ad on Craigslist and find three new players.
As for the time thing, I have a house rule that all the players know before the game even starts and we officially form a group:
There are two types of arrival.
A) On time.
B) Not playing.
This is a team sport. There are five other people here. Their time matters too. Be on time, or be missed.