Playing a Gargoyle (3.5) - Some questions - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Playing a Gargoyle (3.5) - Some questions

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Baree
Jul 27, 2009 9:16:58 I currently am playing in three different campaigns, but all three are on hold right now. So I will join another 3.5 campaign a good friend of mine is DM'ing, I think Forgotten Realms. They just started and played only one session so far. The DM will not allow Evil characters. According to the monster manual, a Gargoyle is usually Chaotic Evil. I would really like to play one though, so I had the idea that my character's soul could have been trapped inside a Gargoyle body by a very powerful wizard or something. This would probably have happened centuries ago, and by now he more or less has become the Gargoyle. The wizard by now would have been dead for a while, but for some reason my character has been bound to a place, preferably the wizard's former residence. If the DM allows it, I will suggest that the rest of the party finds me and has to do something to break a curse or something similar so that I can leave this place. By personal code, I will travel with them and try to protect them from harm. If the DM does wants to introduce me in a different way to the party, then all of this will still have happened only it will be part of my backstory. I will think of another reason for my character to join the party then. Alignment wise, I was thinking he should be Lawful Neutral. I think he would have been a bard originally. He will remember very little about his past. Class wise, I originally planned to play an Assassin. However, I just read that that is actually a prestige class of the rogue. I wanted to make use of his abilities to play a spy/guard/scout kind of character.

So anyway, some questions:

What kind of magic, if any exist, can be used to trap a soul in another body? And what kind of people would be able to do this? It does not have to be a wizard per se. The idea is that the new soul now becomes the body. My character really more or less is a Gargoyle. He does not take over the Chaotic Evil tendencies, but I guess an alignment shift still happened. I think bards are usually Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral?

What kind of class do people suggest that will allow me to make use of his ability to turn into a statue more or less, and his bonuses to hide, spot and listen? Rogue may sound best, but I would really prefer not to use a weapon but to use my claws instead. A Fighter is a Gargoyle's preferred class according to the manual , but I'm not sure I want to play one.

Would it even be feasible to have been trapped inside a Gargoyle's body for many centuries, even more so without company for a large period of that time, without going insane? Like I said, he more or less has become the Gargoyle but some parts of his old character and moral code still remain. Some things may trigger memories from his past, etc. And how old can Gargoyle's get anyway? I am assuming they are immortal.

What kind of curse or anything similar would have me bound to a place for so long? Curses usually weaken over time I think, so I need something that is more permanent.

Just in general, how difficult is it to play a Gargoyle for a character? Obviously there are many problems. A level adjustment of +5 for example, or the fact that he can fly, which is rather overpowered for a lvl 1 party. Naturally, the latter can be resolved by simply taking away one or both of my wings for whatever reason. And I'm sure there are many other problems I am not thinking off. Basically, any advice and/or tips will be welcome.
#2
darquing
Jul 27, 2009 9:23:43 Personally, as a DM, I'd nix your gargoyle idea and ask you to pick something closer to first level (like an actual player race? ;)).

As for soul-trapping spells, the only one that comes to mind is soul jar. I think technically it uses a gem, but I'm sure it could either be modified to accept something constructed or your soul could actually be in a gem in the gargoyle).

And as for being by yourself for centuries without going bonkers, maybe you spent a few years just roaming the tower/castle/dungeon/whatever and then got so bored you decided to actually stay in your stone form (and then you actually got some tisivors! yay!).
#3
seyeklopz
Jul 27, 2009 12:40:45 He could be a particularly ugly albino dragonborn with a grayish complexion with a petrifying fear of sunlight with diurnal amnesia.
#4
Baree
Jul 27, 2009 21:24:07 Heh. Well the DM already has allowed some pretty exotic characters, so I don't think that should be a problem. Maybe I should be nerfed a bit though, damage wise.
#5
salla
Jul 27, 2009 21:32:33 Your DM is going to have to come up with some kind of progression for you; not only do you have tod eal with a +5 Level Adjustment, you have to account for its 4 Hit Dice as well, so you won't be taking any class levels until 10th.

As far as the alignment issue goes, there isn't one. Any intelligent being can choose it's own moral and ethical path, so your Gargoyle can be lawful good, or any other alignment, as you see fit.
#6
crossblade
Jul 27, 2009 23:47:52 Salla hit the nail on the head. Even before play, a gargoyle is equal to a level 9 PC.
ECL = effective character level
HD = hit dice (number of dice rolled to get your hit points)
LA = level adjustment

Gargoyle ECL = 4HD + 5 LA = 9
Then when you take a class level after that; you add that on too. So 1st level rogue = 9+1=10

Salla is also right about alignment. You can be anything you want to be. The MM says "usually XX alignment", there are exceptions... like with PC characters. So if you wanted to say that your gargoyle was charged with protection of an evil wizard's castle, where Mr. E. Vil McWizardton had a family; which the gargoyle watched over loyally (or he knew the boss would nuke him if he didn't); but grew into a loving softy as the family grew up before it's eyes... then so be it.

The only real rules for alignement being set are a classes (unless the DM rules differently). Bards are NEVER lawful. They can be good/neutral/evil and chaotic or neutral... just not lawful. Assassins are always evil. They can be lawful/neutral/chaotic, but must be evil.

As for using your claws; any creature with a natural weapon (bite, claw, tail, etc) is considered proficient with that. Classes don't interfere with that. A rogue gargoyle could sneak attack with his claws. At 1st level of rogue (ECL 10), the damage would be 1d4+1d6+ str bonus

Another thing to point out, given what can be assessed of your knowledge from what you've said is that the stats in the MM for a gargoyle are for a "standard array" character. If you use point buy or roll for stats, you'll have to figure out the gargoyle's racial modifiers (I'll do that now to show you how, don't worry). To figure out ANY monster's ability modifiers, you take the listed stats and subtract 10 or 11. In the gargoyle's case its:
STR 15 Dex 14 Con 18 Int 6 Wis 11 Cha 7
This translates to modifiers of:
Str +4, Dex +4, Con +8, Int -4, Wis +0, Cha - 4

Finally: Gargoyles don't "turn themselves into statues". Reread the entry for 'Freeze(ex)', "A gargoyle can hold itself so still it appears to be a statue." So, it's a matter of playing 'Red light/Green light'; and they're really good at it.
#7
Baree
Jul 28, 2009 6:27:05 Regarding the statue thing, that's why I added more or less at the end ^^. I know you can try to see whether or not a statue is a statue or a Gargoyle by making a dc 20 spot check. We're not using point buy or dice for stats, the dm just gives us 16 - 15 - 13 - 11 - 10 - 8. Or something like that. And we put those where we want.

Anyway, the main problem would be the fact that you are effectively a level 9 character then. Before choosing a class even. I know we have a yuan-ti in the party already with a level adjustment of +3. The DM won't let him use his class abilities yet, so he would probably do the same thing in my case. Only I would have to wait even longer before I finally could use them.
#8
crossblade
Jul 28, 2009 8:53:45 Ugh, Yuan-Ti Confused me for the longest time because I never remembered which was which in regards to Pure-Blood, Half-blood and Abomination.

I don't know where you're getting +2 LA for them though...

Pure-blood, the snakey looking human (woman in a dress on p 263) is a pure blood. Pure-bloods are the only one that have "as Characters" stated out. (But that doesn't stop them from being reverse engineered by good players).
Pure-Bloods have 4HD and +2 LA
ECL = 6 before character classes

Halfbloods, the snake body parts one, has 7HD and LA of +5
ECL = 12 before classes

Abominations, the cool ones that are the snakes bodies with arms (thing with the sword on page 263 in MM), are Large and have 9HD with an LA of +7
ECL = 16 before classes

So I'm not sure where you're getting +3. Unless that was a typo, I'm sensing your group might have some power balance issues due to lack of understanding monster conversion/progression. (Because it's not just abilities that make up for HD and LA, it's also the feats from the equivalent ECL, ability mods, skills, etc etc etc)
#9
1_ton_ghost
Jul 28, 2009 13:41:58 Points of order/observations:

-You're making this harder & more convuluted than it need be. You don't necessarilly need an over-the-top plot device to play a gargoyle. It is enough to say naturally born. Failing that, I could totally see a mishap w/ a Flesh to Stone spell, screwy Reincarnation, things like that. More complex the idea, the more that can go wrong w/ it. Making the DM do more work to accomodate your unique snowflake means shorting other players.

-ECL...if this is a 1st lvl start, just don't even try it. There's just no way to make it work w/ such HD and all the perks they get. 9th? Yeah, that's cool.

-Flight is very nice, particularly for forward scouts/rogue types. Couple that w/ DR/magic, very formidable. Get savvy w/ a reach weapon, let alone your natural weapon (always threatening both 5 & 10ft), totally deadly.
#10
Baree
Jul 28, 2009 13:43:14 Eh, I know the+3 was what the DM decided, but I also know he already nerfed the yuan-ti character. I'm not sure what he did exactly though. Anyway, the day after tomorrow I will visit the DM and we will discuss things.
#11
Baree
Aug 08, 2009 8:19:25 Well, we had our first session yesterday. Even though I have been nerfed, I'm still obviously more powerful then some of the other characters in the group. AC wise definitely, and when I can make a full round attack as well of course. Although there are two other characters who in general do more damage then I do. With a bit of roleplaying I hope I can balance things out a bit. And of course I discussed things with the other players at the end of the session. If they would have felt I was to strong I would have made a new character probably, or nerfed the Gargoyle even more. However, they all said they were fine with it. One of them even cast a Magic Fang on me during combat, so.... Yeah.

If I can't make a full round attack I'm actually pretty average compared to most of the others, and weaker then a few as well. So it sort of semi works. Of course, level progression will be slower for me, but that's fine with me.

Anyway, one thing I can't find in the Monster Manual is whether or not a Gargoyle is actually made of stone or not. It says that they can appear as stone statues, but that may just refer to the statue bit. They have a pretty high natural armor so they must have thick skin, and they also are of the Earth template. There is no mention of weight however, or at least I don't see it. Would anyone know if they are really made of stone or not and how heavy they are?
#12
seyeklopz
Aug 08, 2009 11:41:46 I think someone mentioned that they can remain uncannily motionless if they wish, but they are not stone. Their skin is tough, like stone, but they are flesh and bone creatures. They require no food, water, or air though. At least the current version.
#13
entropy_judge
Aug 08, 2009 11:57:45
Would anyone know if they are really made of stone or not and how heavy they are?

IIRC, in my 2nd Ed. Monstrous Manual, it said they were *not* made of stone. Don't know (remember, rather) how much they're supposed to weigh.
#14
Omnirahk_half-Rahkshi
Aug 09, 2009 13:48:39 ...Now you're making me want to play a gargoyle. I'd probably just use warforged stats and reflavor as necessary. Maybe easier for me, being in 4e games, but 3.5 is great too. Anyway, if the LA does become a problem, try reflavoring as warforged. That doesn't cover the wings though - call it an old battle scar.

EDIT: And I just remembered that I've come across rules somewhere for a 3.5 PC-capable gargoyle variant. I want to say I found it archived here, but I can't open the pdfs to double check. Anyway, it's flavored for the Eberron setting - gargoyles converted to the Silver Flame, but really you could treat it as any sort of gargoyle set up outside a church that has converted to the faith.
#15
Baree
Aug 09, 2009 14:04:19 One of my oldest characters is a Warforged Monk, which I also sometimes use for other stuff. I wanted something different this time^^
#16
Omnirahk_half-Rahkshi
Aug 09, 2009 21:34:11
One of my oldest characters is a Warforged Monk, which I also sometimes use for other stuff. I wanted something different this time^^

Oh. Then, yeah. Don't try using warforged to represent it. As for the other idea I mentioned, I looked it up: Wingwyrd from 5 Nations. LA +5, 3 HD, so it begins as an 8th level character. Grants you one more hit die at least. DR is lower, but you also get spell resistance, some skill bonuses (notably +8 hide if you're in a city with a lot of architecture that would use decorative gargoyles. Supposed to tied to the religion you represent), bonus damage against demons, and when you die, your body explodes. Only Evil creatures take damage, but your body is then destroyed. So resurrection is kind of hard.
#17
Baree
Aug 10, 2009 7:14:15 Well, Like I said in the thread already, I'm playing the Gargoyle already. What I'm hoping someone will be able to tell me is how much a 3.5 Gargoyle weighs. The Monster Manual doesn't mention this.
#18
entropy_judge
Aug 10, 2009 9:04:47 I'd guess between 200 and 300 pounds - they're listed as Medium, and since the MM (SRD, at least) doesn't mention anything specific, they are therefore be between 60 and 500 pounds. They're not terribly big, not terribly small ....
#19
orderform
Aug 11, 2009 4:19:51 Maybe I'm a jerk I'd be a bit worried about you choosing to play such an exotic character if you didn't know the specifics of the assassin class. It sounds like you are aiming for something uber bad ass with no solid understanding of how the basic game works.
#20
Baree
Aug 11, 2009 6:13:27 Well, I've been playing the game now for about 1,5 years. I'm not at the point yet of some of my friends, who know all the core books and a lot of the other books by heart. I'm still learning. But I would like to think I know the basics a bit, anyway. I never had played an assassin, nor had I seen anyone play one. I knew the class existed and from what I knew about assassins it seemed the class to match the idea I had of the character. When I found out it was a prestige class I settled for the rogue. However, one other player alerady played a rogue, so after some discussions with teh DM, he presented another book to me and we settled on a Ninja. Not exactly what I had in mind, but it'll have to do.

Also, thanks for the replies. I like the idea that my Gargoyle is actually made out of stone, which I guess I could do. Only then it would be a construct or something. So no stone then. I'll let him be the heavier end of 200 pounds then, somewhere along the lines of 290.
#21
entropy_judge
Aug 11, 2009 8:12:14
I like the idea that my Gargoyle is actually made out of stone, which I guess I could do. Only then it would be a construct or something. So no stone then

There was a "gargoyle golem" in 2nd Ed (exactly what it says on the tin ...), which, IIRC, weighed in at about 900 pounds. Could fly, but had a distressing weakness to Earthquake spells, as well as spells that affected earth/rock directly (Rock to Mud, anyone?).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Baree Jul 27, 2009 9:16:58	I currently am playing in three different campaigns, but all three are on hold right now. So I will join another 3.5 campaign a good friend of mine is DM'ing, I think Forgotten Realms. They just started and played only one session so far. The DM will not allow Evil characters. According to the monster manual, a Gargoyle is usually Chaotic Evil. I would really like to play one though, so I had the idea that my character's soul could have been trapped inside a Gargoyle body by a very powerful wizard or something. This would probably have happened centuries ago, and by now he more or less has become the Gargoyle. The wizard by now would have been dead for a while, but for some reason my character has been bound to a place, preferably the wizard's former residence. If the DM allows it, I will suggest that the rest of the party finds me and has to do something to break a curse or something similar so that I can leave this place. By personal code, I will travel with them and try to protect them from harm. If the DM does wants to introduce me in a different way to the party, then all of this will still have happened only it will be part of my backstory. I will think of another reason for my character to join the party then. Alignment wise, I was thinking he should be Lawful Neutral. I think he would have been a bard originally. He will remember very little about his past. Class wise, I originally planned to play an Assassin. However, I just read that that is actually a prestige class of the rogue. I wanted to make use of his abilities to play a spy/guard/scout kind of character. So anyway, some questions: What kind of magic, if any exist, can be used to trap a soul in another body? And what kind of people would be able to do this? It does not have to be a wizard per se. The idea is that the new soul now becomes the body. My character really more or less is a Gargoyle. He does not take over the Chaotic Evil tendencies, but I guess an alignment shift still happened. I think bards are usually Chaotic Good or Chaotic Neutral? What kind of class do people suggest that will allow me to make use of his ability to turn into a statue more or less, and his bonuses to hide, spot and listen? Rogue may sound best, but I would really prefer not to use a weapon but to use my claws instead. A Fighter is a Gargoyle's preferred class according to the manual , but I'm not sure I want to play one. Would it even be feasible to have been trapped inside a Gargoyle's body for many centuries, even more so without company for a large period of that time, without going insane? Like I said, he more or less has become the Gargoyle but some parts of his old character and moral code still remain. Some things may trigger memories from his past, etc. And how old can Gargoyle's get anyway? I am assuming they are immortal. What kind of curse or anything similar would have me bound to a place for so long? Curses usually weaken over time I think, so I need something that is more permanent. Just in general, how difficult is it to play a Gargoyle for a character? Obviously there are many problems. A level adjustment of +5 for example, or the fact that he can fly, which is rather overpowered for a lvl 1 party. Naturally, the latter can be resolved by simply taking away one or both of my wings for whatever reason. And I'm sure there are many other problems I am not thinking off. Basically, any advice and/or tips will be welcome.
#2 darquing Jul 27, 2009 9:23:43	Personally, as a DM, I'd nix your gargoyle idea and ask you to pick something closer to first level (like an actual player race? ;)). As for soul-trapping spells, the only one that comes to mind is soul jar. I think technically it uses a gem, but I'm sure it could either be modified to accept something constructed or your soul could actually be in a gem in the gargoyle). And as for being by yourself for centuries without going bonkers, maybe you spent a few years just roaming the tower/castle/dungeon/whatever and then got so bored you decided to actually stay in your stone form (and then you actually got some tisivors! yay!).
#3 seyeklopz Jul 27, 2009 12:40:45	He could be a particularly ugly albino dragonborn with a grayish complexion with a petrifying fear of sunlight with diurnal amnesia.
#4 Baree Jul 27, 2009 21:24:07	Heh. Well the DM already has allowed some pretty exotic characters, so I don't think that should be a problem. Maybe I should be nerfed a bit though, damage wise.
#5 salla Jul 27, 2009 21:32:33	Your DM is going to have to come up with some kind of progression for you; not only do you have tod eal with a +5 Level Adjustment, you have to account for its 4 Hit Dice as well, so you won't be taking any class levels until 10th. As far as the alignment issue goes, there isn't one. Any intelligent being can choose it's own moral and ethical path, so your Gargoyle can be lawful good, or any other alignment, as you see fit.
#6 crossblade Jul 27, 2009 23:47:52	Salla hit the nail on the head. Even before play, a gargoyle is equal to a level 9 PC. ECL = effective character level HD = hit dice (number of dice rolled to get your hit points) LA = level adjustment Gargoyle ECL = 4HD + 5 LA = 9 Then when you take a class level after that; you add that on too. So 1st level rogue = 9+1=10 Salla is also right about alignment. You can be anything you want to be. The MM says "usually XX alignment", there are exceptions... like with PC characters. So if you wanted to say that your gargoyle was charged with protection of an evil wizard's castle, where Mr. E. Vil McWizardton had a family; which the gargoyle watched over loyally (or he knew the boss would nuke him if he didn't); but grew into a loving softy as the family grew up before it's eyes... then so be it. The only real rules for alignement being set are a classes (unless the DM rules differently). Bards are NEVER lawful. They can be good/neutral/evil and chaotic or neutral... just not lawful. Assassins are always evil. They can be lawful/neutral/chaotic, but must be evil. As for using your claws; any creature with a natural weapon (bite, claw, tail, etc) is considered proficient with that. Classes don't interfere with that. A rogue gargoyle could sneak attack with his claws. At 1st level of rogue (ECL 10), the damage would be 1d4+1d6+ str bonus Another thing to point out, given what can be assessed of your knowledge from what you've said is that the stats in the MM for a gargoyle are for a "standard array" character. If you use point buy or roll for stats, you'll have to figure out the gargoyle's racial modifiers (I'll do that now to show you how, don't worry). To figure out ANY monster's ability modifiers, you take the listed stats and subtract 10 or 11. In the gargoyle's case its: STR 15 Dex 14 Con 18 Int 6 Wis 11 Cha 7 This translates to modifiers of: Str +4, Dex +4, Con +8, Int -4, Wis +0, Cha - 4 Finally: Gargoyles don't "turn themselves into statues". Reread the entry for 'Freeze(ex)', "A gargoyle can hold itself so still it appears to be a statue." So, it's a matter of playing 'Red light/Green light'; and they're really good at it.
#7 Baree Jul 28, 2009 6:27:05	Regarding the statue thing, that's why I added more or less at the end ^^. I know you can try to see whether or not a statue is a statue or a Gargoyle by making a dc 20 spot check. We're not using point buy or dice for stats, the dm just gives us 16 - 15 - 13 - 11 - 10 - 8. Or something like that. And we put those where we want. Anyway, the main problem would be the fact that you are effectively a level 9 character then. Before choosing a class even. I know we have a yuan-ti in the party already with a level adjustment of +3. The DM won't let him use his class abilities yet, so he would probably do the same thing in my case. Only I would have to wait even longer before I finally could use them.
#8 crossblade Jul 28, 2009 8:53:45	Ugh, Yuan-Ti Confused me for the longest time because I never remembered which was which in regards to Pure-Blood, Half-blood and Abomination. I don't know where you're getting +2 LA for them though... Pure-blood, the snakey looking human (woman in a dress on p 263) is a pure blood. Pure-bloods are the only one that have "as Characters" stated out. (But that doesn't stop them from being reverse engineered by good players). Pure-Bloods have 4HD and +2 LA ECL = 6 before character classes Halfbloods, the snake body parts one, has 7HD and LA of +5 ECL = 12 before classes Abominations, the cool ones that are the snakes bodies with arms (thing with the sword on page 263 in MM), are Large and have 9HD with an LA of +7 ECL = 16 before classes So I'm not sure where you're getting +3. Unless that was a typo, I'm sensing your group might have some power balance issues due to lack of understanding monster conversion/progression. (Because it's not just abilities that make up for HD and LA, it's also the feats from the equivalent ECL, ability mods, skills, etc etc etc)
#9 1_ton_ghost Jul 28, 2009 13:41:58	Points of order/observations: -You're making this harder & more convuluted than it need be. You don't necessarilly need an over-the-top plot device to play a gargoyle. It is enough to say naturally born. Failing that, I could totally see a mishap w/ a Flesh to Stone spell, screwy Reincarnation, things like that. More complex the idea, the more that can go wrong w/ it. Making the DM do more work to accomodate your unique snowflake means shorting other players. -ECL...if this is a 1st lvl start, just don't even try it. There's just no way to make it work w/ such HD and all the perks they get. 9th? Yeah, that's cool. -Flight is very nice, particularly for forward scouts/rogue types. Couple that w/ DR/magic, very formidable. Get savvy w/ a reach weapon, let alone your natural weapon (always threatening both 5 & 10ft), totally deadly.
#10 Baree Jul 28, 2009 13:43:14	Eh, I know the+3 was what the DM decided, but I also know he already nerfed the yuan-ti character. I'm not sure what he did exactly though. Anyway, the day after tomorrow I will visit the DM and we will discuss things.
#11 Baree Aug 08, 2009 8:19:25	Well, we had our first session yesterday. Even though I have been nerfed, I'm still obviously more powerful then some of the other characters in the group. AC wise definitely, and when I can make a full round attack as well of course. Although there are two other characters who in general do more damage then I do. With a bit of roleplaying I hope I can balance things out a bit. And of course I discussed things with the other players at the end of the session. If they would have felt I was to strong I would have made a new character probably, or nerfed the Gargoyle even more. However, they all said they were fine with it. One of them even cast a Magic Fang on me during combat, so.... Yeah. If I can't make a full round attack I'm actually pretty average compared to most of the others, and weaker then a few as well. So it sort of semi works. Of course, level progression will be slower for me, but that's fine with me. Anyway, one thing I can't find in the Monster Manual is whether or not a Gargoyle is actually made of stone or not. It says that they can appear as stone statues, but that may just refer to the statue bit. They have a pretty high natural armor so they must have thick skin, and they also are of the Earth template. There is no mention of weight however, or at least I don't see it. Would anyone know if they are really made of stone or not and how heavy they are?
#12 seyeklopz Aug 08, 2009 11:41:46	I think someone mentioned that they can remain uncannily motionless if they wish, but they are not stone. Their skin is tough, like stone, but they are flesh and bone creatures. They require no food, water, or air though. At least the current version.
#13 entropy_judge Aug 08, 2009 11:57:45	Would anyone know if they are really made of stone or not and how heavy they are? IIRC, in my 2nd Ed. Monstrous Manual, it said they were not made of stone. Don't know (remember, rather) how much they're supposed to weigh.
#14 Omnirahk_half-Rahkshi Aug 09, 2009 13:48:39	...Now you're making me want to play a gargoyle. I'd probably just use warforged stats and reflavor as necessary. Maybe easier for me, being in 4e games, but 3.5 is great too. Anyway, if the LA does become a problem, try reflavoring as warforged. That doesn't cover the wings though - call it an old battle scar. EDIT: And I just remembered that I've come across rules somewhere for a 3.5 PC-capable gargoyle variant. I want to say I found it archived here, but I can't open the pdfs to double check. Anyway, it's flavored for the Eberron setting - gargoyles converted to the Silver Flame, but really you could treat it as any sort of gargoyle set up outside a church that has converted to the faith.
#15 Baree Aug 09, 2009 14:04:19	One of my oldest characters is a Warforged Monk, which I also sometimes use for other stuff. I wanted something different this time^^
#16 Omnirahk_half-Rahkshi Aug 09, 2009 21:34:11	One of my oldest characters is a Warforged Monk, which I also sometimes use for other stuff. I wanted something different this time^^ Oh. Then, yeah. Don't try using warforged to represent it. As for the other idea I mentioned, I looked it up: Wingwyrd from 5 Nations. LA +5, 3 HD, so it begins as an 8th level character. Grants you one more hit die at least. DR is lower, but you also get spell resistance, some skill bonuses (notably +8 hide if you're in a city with a lot of architecture that would use decorative gargoyles. Supposed to tied to the religion you represent), bonus damage against demons, and when you die, your body explodes. Only Evil creatures take damage, but your body is then destroyed. So resurrection is kind of hard.
#17 Baree Aug 10, 2009 7:14:15	Well, Like I said in the thread already, I'm playing the Gargoyle already. What I'm hoping someone will be able to tell me is how much a 3.5 Gargoyle weighs. The Monster Manual doesn't mention this.
#18 entropy_judge Aug 10, 2009 9:04:47	I'd guess between 200 and 300 pounds - they're listed as Medium, and since the MM (SRD, at least) doesn't mention anything specific, they are therefore be between 60 and 500 pounds. They're not terribly big, not terribly small ....
#19 orderform Aug 11, 2009 4:19:51	Maybe I'm a jerk I'd be a bit worried about you choosing to play such an exotic character if you didn't know the specifics of the assassin class. It sounds like you are aiming for something uber bad ass with no solid understanding of how the basic game works.
#20 Baree Aug 11, 2009 6:13:27	Well, I've been playing the game now for about 1,5 years. I'm not at the point yet of some of my friends, who know all the core books and a lot of the other books by heart. I'm still learning. But I would like to think I know the basics a bit, anyway. I never had played an assassin, nor had I seen anyone play one. I knew the class existed and from what I knew about assassins it seemed the class to match the idea I had of the character. When I found out it was a prestige class I settled for the rogue. However, one other player alerady played a rogue, so after some discussions with teh DM, he presented another book to me and we settled on a Ninja. Not exactly what I had in mind, but it'll have to do. Also, thanks for the replies. I like the idea that my Gargoyle is actually made out of stone, which I guess I could do. Only then it would be a construct or something. So no stone then. I'll let him be the heavier end of 200 pounds then, somewhere along the lines of 290.
#21 entropy_judge Aug 11, 2009 8:12:14	I like the idea that my Gargoyle is actually made out of stone, which I guess I could do. Only then it would be a construct or something. So no stone then There was a "gargoyle golem" in 2nd Ed (exactly what it says on the tin ...), which, IIRC, weighed in at about 900 pounds. Could fly, but had a distressing weakness to Earthquake spells, as well as spells that affected earth/rock directly (Rock to Mud, anyone?).