Playing a Hill Giant? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Playing a Hill Giant?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
jage
May 06, 2008 10:58:02 Could someone explain how to make an ECL 5 Hill Giant- I have neither the MM nor the DMG, but only the PHB and yet would like to make a character based on this. I'm not looking for hulking hurlers or whatever, I just need the stats of a Hill Giant and how ECL works to make them into a PC.

Thanks.
#2
kouk
May 06, 2008 11:06:30 http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/giant.htm#hillGiant

This is a link to an online SRD, where you can find the majority of rules in the PHB, DMG, and MM, as well as Unearthed Arcana and others. The main page is here: http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm

Normally you couldn't have an ECL 5 Hill Giant, because they have a level adjustment of +4, and 12 racial hit dice. That means they would start as an ECL 16 character minimum.

EDIT: Some other options you might consider include Half-Giants (+1 LA) http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/halfGiant.htm

or Ogres (ECL 6) http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogre.htm

or Goliaths in Races of Stone, also with +1 LA
#3
kursk
May 06, 2008 12:01:00
Could someone explain how to make an ECL 5 Hill Giant- I have neither the MM nor the DMG, but only the PHB and yet would like to make a character based on this. I'm not looking for hulking hurlers or whatever, I just need the stats of a Hill Giant and how ECL works to make them into a PC.

Thanks.

Think carefully before doing it. You can't enter normal buildings. Dungeons often don't have ceilings high enough for you, etc. Other PCs take off on their horses when danger comes. Leaving you on your own...

I had player try it once. Total pain and he died quickly.
#4
jage
May 06, 2008 12:13:17 So doing a 1d12+4 Hill Giant with LA+4 to make ECL 5 and similar adjustments to the other stats wouldn't be possible? Like reverse engineer the 12 HD monster to 1HD and go from there?
#5
kursk
May 06, 2008 12:18:59
So doing a 1d12+4 Hill Giant with LA+4 to make ECL 5 and similar adjustments to the other stats wouldn't be possible? Like reverse engineer the 12 HD monster to 1HD and go from there?

Sure, if you wanted to play an infant.
#6
Zherog
May 06, 2008 12:19:31 One option you have available to you is to work with your DM to build a "level progression" for the Hill Giant.

Basically, you make a "hill giant class" that has 16 levels (the number of hit dice plus the level adjustment). Over that 16 levels, you give it all the benefits of the hill giant's 12 hit dice (Base Attack, saves, racial skills, etc). You also spread out the benefits of being a hill giant -- including stat bonuses.

For example, the hill giant gets the following benefits and penalties just from being a hill giant:

HILL GIANTS AS CHARACTERS

Reckless brutes of incredible strength but little wit, hill giant characters are never truly accepted into society. Yet they do well on its edges and frontiers, forging a strong and profitable existence.

Despite their rugged appearance and great size, their basically humanoid shape makes it easy for them to relate with more civilized folk.

Hill giant characters possess the following racial traits.

* +14 Strength, –2 Dexterity, +8 Constitution, –4 Intelligence, –4 Charisma.
* Large size. –1 penalty to Armor Class, –1 penalty on attack rolls, –4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters.
* Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet.
* A hill giant’s base land speed is 40 feet.
* Low-light vision.
* Racial Hit Dice: A hill giant begins with twelve levels of giant, which provide 12d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +8, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +8, Ref +4, and Will +4.
* Racial Skills: A hill giant’s giant levels give it skill points
* equal to 15 x (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Climb, Jump, Listen, and Spot.
* Racial Feats: A hill giant’s giant levels give it five feats.
* +9 natural armor bonus.
* Special Attacks (see above): Rock throwing.
* Special Qualities (see above): Rock catching.
* Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A hill giant is automatically proficient with simple weapons, martial weapons, light and medium armor, and shields.
* Automatic Languages: Giant. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc.
* Favored Class: Barbarian.
* Level adjustment +4.

For a level progression, you don't have to start out Large; you can start as a Medium sized hill giant and later "grow up" so that you become Large.

You would need to spread the stat bonuses and penalties around the various levels, as well as the natural armor bonus. You might opt to start off at a speed of 30 ft, and when his legs grow longer increase that to 40 ft.

Making a level progression is definitely as much an art as it is a science. It's a very tough balancing act. If you go this path, though, you have to remember that you wouldn't be taking your first level of barbarian until level 17.
#7
Zuggster
May 06, 2008 12:30:32 I know you said you only have the PHB, but Savage Species does a good job breaking races out. It does not have the Hill Giant, but does include Fire, Frost and Stone Giants, along with Ogres and Ogre Magi.
#8
kursk
May 06, 2008 12:31:59
For a level progression, you don't have to start out Large; you can start as a Medium sized hill giant and later "grow up" so that you become Large. ... Making a level progression is definitely as much an art as it is a science.

Not to mention starting play as a child with all its pitfalls...
#9
jage
May 06, 2008 12:35:55 OK thanks Zherog, that's exactly what I was thinking, although I don't want to be locked in to Hill Giant for so many levels. Looks like half-giant is the way to go although for purposes of backstory my character is still going to be a full blooded giant, just a diminutive one. Pending DM approval of course.
#10
crimsondeath
May 06, 2008 12:38:44 1d12+4? Where'd you get that? And 1d12+4 what?

Anyway, Savage Species introduced the concept of "racial classes", so you could play a high-HD, high-ECL monster from low levels. It basically involves breaking down the monster's racial abilities into a gradual progression, and interspersing the HD and LA. There isn't an official Hill Giant monster class, but an ECL 5 Hill Giant would probably have three or four HD.
#11
Zherog
May 06, 2008 12:41:05
OK thanks Zherog, that's exactly what I was thinking, although I don't want to be locked in to Hill Giant for so many levels. Looks like half-giant is the way to go although for purposes of backstory my character is still going to be a full blooded giant, just a diminutive one. Pending DM approval of course.

That seems reasonable, at least at first glance.
#12
jage
May 06, 2008 12:48:41
1d12+4? Where'd you get that? And 1d12+4 what?

The what is HP and I was trying to express the HD deconstruction of a Hill Giant as a concept since the first answer was pretty much "That's not possible". It seemed that it would be and so I was attempting to illustrate what I was asking, which in retrospect should have been:
"What's the breakdown for a 1st level Hill Giant a la Savage Species in terms of HD and other stats?"

Of course at that time I was ignorant of both the book and the mechanics of playing monsters as characters, ECL, LA etc. Forgive my ignorance in trying to ask a question.
#13
Zherog
May 06, 2008 13:01:22 If you're interested...

The hit die that would be used in the breakdown would be a d8; that's the standard hit die for a giant's racial hit dice. Over the course of 16 "levels" you would gain a total of 12 hit dice.
#14
jage
May 06, 2008 13:13:29 OK that makes sense. I've read about HD but never tried to apply it in conversation. And what with the LA, ECL etc it's hard to express things correctly. Thanks again Zherog... you should teach DSL: "D&D as a Second Language."
#15
crimsondeath
May 06, 2008 13:56:45
The what is HP and I was trying to express the HD deconstruction of a Hill Giant as a concept since the first answer was pretty much "That's not possible". It seemed that it would be and so I was attempting to illustrate what I was asking, which in retrospect should have been:
"What's the breakdown for a 1st level Hill Giant a la Savage Species in terms of HD and other stats?"

Of course at that time I was ignorant of both the book and the mechanics of playing monsters as characters, ECL, LA etc. Forgive my ignorance in trying to ask a question.

And apparently, about a half dozen people (including you) posted while I was typing up my response, so I probably repeated some people without realizing it.
#16
jage
May 06, 2008 15:26:27 Haha, yeah at one point I was typing in one window and refreshing the thread in another because people kept responding as I tried to write.
#17
runestar
May 06, 2008 21:34:25 It is odd that savage species has progressions for the fire, frost and stone giants, but no hill giant...:P
#18
Zuggster
May 06, 2008 22:44:38
It is odd that savage species has progressions for the fire, frost and stone giants, but no hill giant...:P

I was a bit puzzled by that as well. The smallest Giant got left out. At least they didn't keep the larger Cloud and Storm Giants or Titans.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jage May 06, 2008 10:58:02	Could someone explain how to make an ECL 5 Hill Giant- I have neither the MM nor the DMG, but only the PHB and yet would like to make a character based on this. I'm not looking for hulking hurlers or whatever, I just need the stats of a Hill Giant and how ECL works to make them into a PC. Thanks.
#2 kouk May 06, 2008 11:06:30	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/giant.htm#hillGiant This is a link to an online SRD, where you can find the majority of rules in the PHB, DMG, and MM, as well as Unearthed Arcana and others. The main page is here: http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm Normally you couldn't have an ECL 5 Hill Giant, because they have a level adjustment of +4, and 12 racial hit dice. That means they would start as an ECL 16 character minimum. EDIT: Some other options you might consider include Half-Giants (+1 LA) http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/halfGiant.htm or Ogres (ECL 6) http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ogre.htm or Goliaths in Races of Stone, also with +1 LA
#3 kursk May 06, 2008 12:01:00	Could someone explain how to make an ECL 5 Hill Giant- I have neither the MM nor the DMG, but only the PHB and yet would like to make a character based on this. I'm not looking for hulking hurlers or whatever, I just need the stats of a Hill Giant and how ECL works to make them into a PC. Thanks. Think carefully before doing it. You can't enter normal buildings. Dungeons often don't have ceilings high enough for you, etc. Other PCs take off on their horses when danger comes. Leaving you on your own... I had player try it once. Total pain and he died quickly.
#4 jage May 06, 2008 12:13:17	So doing a 1d12+4 Hill Giant with LA+4 to make ECL 5 and similar adjustments to the other stats wouldn't be possible? Like reverse engineer the 12 HD monster to 1HD and go from there?
#5 kursk May 06, 2008 12:18:59	So doing a 1d12+4 Hill Giant with LA+4 to make ECL 5 and similar adjustments to the other stats wouldn't be possible? Like reverse engineer the 12 HD monster to 1HD and go from there? Sure, if you wanted to play an infant.
#6 Zherog May 06, 2008 12:19:31	One option you have available to you is to work with your DM to build a "level progression" for the Hill Giant. Basically, you make a "hill giant class" that has 16 levels (the number of hit dice plus the level adjustment). Over that 16 levels, you give it all the benefits of the hill giant's 12 hit dice (Base Attack, saves, racial skills, etc). You also spread out the benefits of being a hill giant -- including stat bonuses. For example, the hill giant gets the following benefits and penalties just from being a hill giant: HILL GIANTS AS CHARACTERS Reckless brutes of incredible strength but little wit, hill giant characters are never truly accepted into society. Yet they do well on its edges and frontiers, forging a strong and profitable existence. Despite their rugged appearance and great size, their basically humanoid shape makes it easy for them to relate with more civilized folk. Hill giant characters possess the following racial traits. * +14 Strength, –2 Dexterity, +8 Constitution, –4 Intelligence, –4 Charisma. * Large size. –1 penalty to Armor Class, –1 penalty on attack rolls, –4 penalty on Hide checks, +4 bonus on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits double those of Medium characters. * Space/Reach: 10 feet/10 feet. * A hill giant’s base land speed is 40 feet. * Low-light vision. * Racial Hit Dice: A hill giant begins with twelve levels of giant, which provide 12d8 Hit Dice, a base attack bonus of +8, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +8, Ref +4, and Will +4. * Racial Skills: A hill giant’s giant levels give it skill points * equal to 15 x (2 + Int modifier). Its class skills are Climb, Jump, Listen, and Spot. * Racial Feats: A hill giant’s giant levels give it five feats. * +9 natural armor bonus. * Special Attacks (see above): Rock throwing. * Special Qualities (see above): Rock catching. * Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A hill giant is automatically proficient with simple weapons, martial weapons, light and medium armor, and shields. * Automatic Languages: Giant. Bonus Languages: Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc. * Favored Class: Barbarian. * Level adjustment +4. For a level progression, you don't have to start out Large; you can start as a Medium sized hill giant and later "grow up" so that you become Large. You would need to spread the stat bonuses and penalties around the various levels, as well as the natural armor bonus. You might opt to start off at a speed of 30 ft, and when his legs grow longer increase that to 40 ft. Making a level progression is definitely as much an art as it is a science. It's a very tough balancing act. If you go this path, though, you have to remember that you wouldn't be taking your first level of barbarian until level 17.
#7 Zuggster May 06, 2008 12:30:32	I know you said you only have the PHB, but Savage Species does a good job breaking races out. It does not have the Hill Giant, but does include Fire, Frost and Stone Giants, along with Ogres and Ogre Magi.
#8 kursk May 06, 2008 12:31:59	For a level progression, you don't have to start out Large; you can start as a Medium sized hill giant and later "grow up" so that you become Large. ... Making a level progression is definitely as much an art as it is a science. Not to mention starting play as a child with all its pitfalls...
#9 jage May 06, 2008 12:35:55	OK thanks Zherog, that's exactly what I was thinking, although I don't want to be locked in to Hill Giant for so many levels. Looks like half-giant is the way to go although for purposes of backstory my character is still going to be a full blooded giant, just a diminutive one. Pending DM approval of course.
#10 crimsondeath May 06, 2008 12:38:44	1d12+4? Where'd you get that? And 1d12+4 what? Anyway, Savage Species introduced the concept of "racial classes", so you could play a high-HD, high-ECL monster from low levels. It basically involves breaking down the monster's racial abilities into a gradual progression, and interspersing the HD and LA. There isn't an official Hill Giant monster class, but an ECL 5 Hill Giant would probably have three or four HD.
#11 Zherog May 06, 2008 12:41:05	OK thanks Zherog, that's exactly what I was thinking, although I don't want to be locked in to Hill Giant for so many levels. Looks like half-giant is the way to go although for purposes of backstory my character is still going to be a full blooded giant, just a diminutive one. Pending DM approval of course. That seems reasonable, at least at first glance.
#12 jage May 06, 2008 12:48:41	1d12+4? Where'd you get that? And 1d12+4 what? The what is HP and I was trying to express the HD deconstruction of a Hill Giant as a concept since the first answer was pretty much "That's not possible". It seemed that it would be and so I was attempting to illustrate what I was asking, which in retrospect should have been: "What's the breakdown for a 1st level Hill Giant a la Savage Species in terms of HD and other stats?" Of course at that time I was ignorant of both the book and the mechanics of playing monsters as characters, ECL, LA etc. Forgive my ignorance in trying to ask a question.
#13 Zherog May 06, 2008 13:01:22	If you're interested... The hit die that would be used in the breakdown would be a d8; that's the standard hit die for a giant's racial hit dice. Over the course of 16 "levels" you would gain a total of 12 hit dice.
#14 jage May 06, 2008 13:13:29	OK that makes sense. I've read about HD but never tried to apply it in conversation. And what with the LA, ECL etc it's hard to express things correctly. Thanks again Zherog... you should teach DSL: "D&D as a Second Language."
#15 crimsondeath May 06, 2008 13:56:45	The what is HP and I was trying to express the HD deconstruction of a Hill Giant as a concept since the first answer was pretty much "That's not possible". It seemed that it would be and so I was attempting to illustrate what I was asking, which in retrospect should have been: "What's the breakdown for a 1st level Hill Giant a la Savage Species in terms of HD and other stats?" Of course at that time I was ignorant of both the book and the mechanics of playing monsters as characters, ECL, LA etc. Forgive my ignorance in trying to ask a question. And apparently, about a half dozen people (including you) posted while I was typing up my response, so I probably repeated some people without realizing it.
#16 jage May 06, 2008 15:26:27	Haha, yeah at one point I was typing in one window and refreshing the thread in another because people kept responding as I tried to write.
#17 runestar May 06, 2008 21:34:25	It is odd that savage species has progressions for the fire, frost and stone giants, but no hill giant...:P
#18 Zuggster May 06, 2008 22:44:38	It is odd that savage species has progressions for the fire, frost and stone giants, but no hill giant...:P I was a bit puzzled by that as well. The smallest Giant got left out. At least they didn't keep the larger Cloud and Storm Giants or Titans.