I'd like to have something ready to protect him, but I'm not finding anything useful. I've access to roughly every other book(Spell compendium in particular), and I think if I can just neutralize the smite, questions about what else I have up my spellcasting sleeve will stop any further combat. Any help?
Why do they always turn into zealots? Just tell the player to cut the crap. Worry more about the NPCs and less about the GOOD aligned PCs.
I would take care of it out of group, but so far the campaign has been "connect the combats", and I'm hoping this will inject some roleplay into the game.
I myself am the leader of the party but I have this chaotic Neutral(with tendency to evil) friend that is a large pain in the ass. Good thing is he is doing what he must do(be in the front line, cast divine spells and fire an arrow or two if needed), even though he is hallucinating a lot of weird stuffs, killing innocent cats and creating shrunken heads out of everything. He also go "yaranaika" on almost everyone including me(my character is female) which I totally refuse.
D¦ >
She does realize that she's Lawful GOOD, right? Not just Lawful, but Lawful Good. Good aligned characters generally don't go around smiting other Good aligned characters. I didn't even think Paladins GOT Smite Chaos..
Gray Guards do, but not for a couple more levels.
Smiting a Favored Soul would get him pwned hard.
What kind of chaotic behavior? The character is Chaotic Good.
I'd like to hear what chaotic behavior is the Paladin seeing.
It has to be good chaotic behavior...lol
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0406.html
Grey guard is a PrC for paladins that moves them from Superman to Punisher territory. They still have the same limitations as paladins do when they enter the class, but they steadily become more... flexible. At first level, Atoning for things you did in the course of your duty (this explicitly includes at least light torture in order to gain information or even just confessions) never requires XP from the cleric while at tenth level, you cannot fall for violations of your code of conduct anymore unless you "commit unforgivable evil acts (such as slaughtering innocents or despoiling a temple of your faith)".
As class features, your Smite Evil first widens to Smite Evil and Chaotic (you've still got to say what you're smiting) and finally becomes a Smite Whatever You Feel Like Smiting Today - yes, you can now theoretically smite other paladins.
Please expand on the exact acts of the Favored Soul. Depending exactly what they are, the paladin is still at risk of losing his class(es) - and now, it can even be permanent, since the above-mentioned "unforgivable evil acts" cannot be atoned for. Wanting to smite a favored soul of a (probably good) deity, an aasimar even, may come pretty close to this.
Regarding the actual combat, I advise battlefield control spells - if you manage to level up another time before the fight happens, a wall of Thorns may serve to cool down the fronts while an Air Walk could let the Favored Soul escape to unreachable heights.
Sounds like you have one of these paladins.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0406.html
I love what happens next panel.
From the Complete Scoundrel page 42
You can never break your code without a good reason.
If they do this then the fall hard and lose all there class features, even with the lacked code of conduct.
I suggest the player quit trying to force others to play their way.
The last event, and one thats particularly bugging her, was when we met three injured drow. The caves we were in had had some defensive cave-in's set off, and these drow had obviously just come out on the worse end of a fight. We offer healing for info on what's happening, they refuse. Negotiations turn to threats, aasimar takes out a drow who had drawn a bow the round before, and shoves another drow to the wall. Drow spits in the aasimar's face and insults the angelic heritage, so the aasimar takes that one out. The third drow was unconsious and was left lying in the cave.
The drow were rather defenseless. Insulting someones heritage should not be a reason to kill them. At least not when you're good. The one with the bow is tricky (was he going to shoot, or was he just trying to defend himself?) He could've knocked them unconscious, since he apparently had one of them pinned anyway.
Then again, it also largely depends on how drow are looked at in your campaign.. but seeing as you first offered to heal them, ending up killing them for an insult is maybe a tad extreme.
@posters who don't know the Grey Guard
Grey guard is a PrC for paladins that moves them from Superman to Punisher territory. They still have the same limitations as paladins do when they enter the class, but they steadily become more... flexible. At first level, Atoning for things you did in the course of your duty (this explicitly includes at least light torture in order to gain information or even just confessions) never requires XP from the cleric while at tenth level, you cannot fall for violations of your code of conduct anymore unless you "commit unforgivable evil acts (such as slaughtering innocents or despoiling a temple of your faith)".
As class features, your Smite Evil first widens to Smite Evil and Chaotic (you've still got to say what you're smiting) and finally becomes a Smite Whatever You Feel Like Smiting Today - yes, you can now theoretically smite other paladins.
Please expand on the exact acts of the Favored Soul. Depending exactly what they are, the paladin is still at risk of losing his class(es) - and now, it can even be permanent, since the above-mentioned "unforgivable evil acts" cannot be atoned for. Wanting to smite a favored soul of a (probably good) deity, an aasimar even, may come pretty close to this.
Regarding the actual combat, I advise battlefield control spells - if you manage to level up another time before the fight happens, a wall of Thorns may serve to cool down the fronts while an Air Walk could let the Favored Soul escape to unreachable heights.
The player should focus this on the opponents, not on his party members. If he's a grey guard, he would've looked more loosely at what happened to the drow as well. I always include one vital rule in my parties: The players should by default get along. If developments in the game make the players gradually dislike each other, it's only because both players agree with this and won't let it mess with the party and gameplay.
Keep in mind that your party is there to save your hide. If you distrust your party to the point of having to worry about being struck by a smite chaotic ability, I don't see how you can safely enter a dungeon with them.
Regardless, in my eyes the grey guard should talk this out.
The paladin should first attempt to convince the aasimar that he should change his ways (assuming that the assimar does this sort of thing on a regular basis.)
Just casting a spell on the aasimar to prevent the smite isn't going to settle this. Your characters, *in game*, all need to sit down and talk this out.
The paladin needs to chill out. Aside from just the alignment issues, threatening fellow party members is never a good idea.
The aasimar appears to either be acting more Chaotic Neutral than Chaotic Good, or maybe the character has a really nasty temper and low self-control. As a Favored Soul, neither of these are probably scoring him points with his god.
Your character, as a representative of balance, should try to sit these two down and spell out exactly why each character needs to chill out - as Good characters, they should be willing to sit down and discuss this rather than come to blows.
Outside the game, I'd suggest chair shots to the head for both of them.
The last event, and one thats particularly bugging her, was when we met three injured drow. The caves we were in had had some defensive cave-in's set off, and these drow had obviously just come out on the worse end of a fight. We offer healing for info on what's happening, they refuse. Negotiations turn to threats, aasimar takes out a drow who had drawn a bow the round before, and shoves another drow to the wall. Drow spits in the aasimar's face and insults the angelic heritage, so the aasimar takes that one out. The third drow was unconsious and was left lying in the cave.
We offered healing, they refused. OK. They don't want to talk and there's three of them. Do you just leave them behind as your wander off? I don't usually leave drow alive and left behind me. But, that's not a reason just to kill them.
Then...Negotiations turn to threats. What kind of threats? Drow really are dangerous, even if injured. Without some Sense Motive checks or Healing checks, the DM may have exaggerated the injuries - can't tell. Anyway, threats are to be taken seriously when a Drow is throwing them.
But, the next statement did it for me. The Aasimar takes out a drow who had drawn a bow the round before. That's it. These drow have decided to fight. So, I can't see why anyone should take an arrow out of kindness.
As for spitting and insulting the angelic heritage...sorry, but after the first drow drew the bow, the DM has placed the character in the field of battle. The second drow wasn't backing down. Considering the dangers drow present and this historic past, this second drow isn't going to breathe.
An unconscious drow? Should you leave it behind? Drow are EVIL and unless you intend to bring it to some jail or you have time to wait for it to wake up and draw its weapon, you deal with it. Unfortunately, in the battle field, unconscious or wounded enemies need a fatal blow- - not a fatal mistake by me.
Dead.
As for Grey Guard? It was nice knowing you, but our ways are too different to work together. Gotta go.
Players have to work together or it's not a fun game. That's the danger of all-evil PC's. If they really play their alignments, they really aren't working as a group, but waiting for the first sign of weakness...
That's the danger of all-evil PC's. If they really play their alignments, they really aren't working as a group, but waiting for the first sign of weakness...
Thats not Evil. Thats supid. Smart Evil PCs know the value of haveing friends/meat sheilds.:D
Thats not Evil. Thats supid.
Ironic.
Yeah, seriously, Grey Guard or not, they can't justify using smite on a GOOD person just because they disagree with something they've done. And paladin code or not, it's still not a Lawful Good thing to do...
Actually, that's exactly what the Gray Guard is designed for..
Actually, that's exactly what the Gray Guard is designed for..
No, actually it's not. The Grey Guard doesn't have free reign to do whatever he feels like doing. He just faces *slightly* less severe consequences for doing *slightly* morally questionable things. They're still accountable to the paladin's code. It's just easier for them to atone for breaking it. Attacking one's own party members when violence isn't absolutely necessary, and won't resolve the problem, doesn't fall under "slightly questionable". In this situation, being a Grey Guard would allow the character to *not* necessarily have a problem with the aasimar's actions.
A truly good character (and this character is Good, Celestial, and Favord by the Good Gods) would not have killed the defenseless drow.
Imagine any movie in which the white hats come upon black hats in a bad position (The Patriot comes immediately to mind, when Mel Gibson's character's family is taking care of the wounded colonial militia as well as the British soldiers). You offer to help them, and if they're in a bad enough spot, they accept even though they might glare at you or even initially spit in your face. If they let you help them, you help them. If they insult you and refuse to be healed, you leave them alone and maybe say a prayer for them. If they attack you with the capability of actually maiming or killing you, then you defend yourself with lethal force.
You don't kill them because they make a predictable insult about your race.
Just my
, YMMVBut the wounded British soldiers weren't aiming muskets at the family were they?
It's been awhile since I saw that movie, so I won't try to answer, but if anyone is wondering, it is a pretty awesome movie, involving some awesome Colonial War Axe-chucking Musket-firing goodness.
No, actually it's not. The Grey Guard doesn't have free reign to do whatever he feels like doing.
By level 10, he effectively does.
When you go "Hm. That person with Celestial blood that is beloved by the powers of good needs a few spoonfuls of SMITE!" you need to stop, and look at what the Paladin class is.
By level 10, he effectively does.
Only with regard to his actual objectives, though that's still enough to inspire a certain Miko-ness.
By level 10, the Grey Guard CAN shove a baker into his own oven for literally any evil, imagined or otherwise, and pretty much justify it somehow. In a game where everyone's only human (or Elf, or Orc, or Snarling Hyena-Man, whatever), a class that can do anything about ANY wrong committed ends with corpses. Lots and lots of corpses.
Only with regard to his actual objectives, though that's still enough to inspire a certain Miko-ness.
His actual objectives only being subject to judgment by his deity or council of judges. He doesn't suddenly fall. If he can justify drowning a commoner in a barrel of rain water, he can do it.
I like the comparison of Super-Man = Paladin while Grey Guard = The Punisher. Mainly because it's so incredibly true.
By level 10, the Grey Guard CAN shove a baker into his own oven for literally any evil, imagined or otherwise, and pretty much justify it somehow. In a game where everyone's only human (or Elf, or Orc, or Snarling Hyena-Man, whatever), a class that can do anything about ANY wrong committed ends with corpses. Lots and lots of corpses.
Can I sig this?
Curb stomp him. No, really, beat the living hell out of this paladin if he tries anything, and then once he's down to 1 or 2 hp, patch him up, dust yourself off, let him know that there are no hard feelings, but that you're not putting up with his crap.
+1
Don't kill him, just demonstrate for him that you could kill him really, really easily. Then fix him up. Once you've got his attention like that, ask him to play nicely.