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reducing spell faluire

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
fishfinger
Mar 15, 2008 9:19:39 is there anyway a wizard can possible wear any form of armor other then mage armor or shield or any other type of spell and seriously reduce spell faluire or have none at all maybe a few feats such as still spell and silent spell, would that cut out all spell faliure?
#2
kelvinaw273
Mar 15, 2008 9:25:03 Still Spell reduces all spell failure to zero, as does any spell without a somatic component. There are various forms of armour and some class abilities that reduce spell failure chances, but few get rid of them entirely. Muthral works if it's metal armour, but the long and the short of it is, if you are a wizard, suck up that bad AC.

I'll add, though, that if you have a decent Wisdom score a dip level of Monk or two can be worthwhile to get your AC up.
#3
makuya
Mar 15, 2008 9:29:03 There's a fighter alternate class feature in Complete Mage. You'll only be proficient with light armor, but you can ignore spell failure from light armor. More fighter levels mean higher spell levels by the way.
#4
nightwyrm
Mar 15, 2008 13:08:42 Mithril chain shirt with twilight enchantment has 0 ASF. Costs you about 5000 though and takes up the body slot. Going with mage armor or greater mage armor is probably more cost effective.
#5
nordicbirch
Mar 15, 2008 19:28:33 There's a whole lot of different things for this. Mithril, Twilight, Thistledown padding etc. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=989131 Full Plate with 0% Spell Failure.
(Also remember that you don't really need the armor proficiency feats, the penalties shouldn't really matter to you.)
#6
cold_napalm
Mar 15, 2008 21:29:58 Mithril twilight breast plate with thisledown padding is 0% ASF.

A mithril twilight githcraft full plate with thisledown padding is also 0% ASF.

Those are the two major ones.
#7
calronmoonflower
Mar 15, 2008 21:38:31 Mithral bucklers are good. You don't get that armor check penalty for non-proficiency.

Darkwood and darkleaf armors also have less arcane spell failure chance.
#8
necroramo
Mar 15, 2008 22:39:35 I've always been a fan of Greater Luminous Armor myself
#9
MrCustomer
Mar 15, 2008 23:33:06 Well a wizard would need to pick up the armor proficency feat first just to wear light armor, then another feat to wear medium armor and yet another for heavy armor.

Still Spell, a Meta Magic rod of Still Spell (do they make those) or spells without somantic copmponents are another way, since arcane spell failure only applies to spells that require movement.

Then you would need to have the armor made from materials that lower it's arcane failure.

But really those are a waste of feats and effort. What your Wizard should do is look for items such as Ring of Protection, Bracers of Armor and Amulet of Natural Armor are ways to raise your AC without wearing any armor at all. Also items that raise your Dex score is another way to raise your AC as well as yoru Reflex save, Ranged Combat and various skills.

Also, not to be overlooked is looking for items that raise your HP, Ac is not the only thing that protects you, damage can be done by Touch Attacks that ignore your Armor Bonus, spells that work off of your Reflex or Fortitude saves, etc. So raising your HPs (Amulet of Health for example) is also important. Take into consideration that even with a raised AC, enemies with high attack bonus will still be able to hit you and you need to be able to absorb that damage.

Don't get overly focused on AC, the Feat needed for a wizard to wear armor isn't worth it in the long run.
#10
calronmoonflower
Mar 16, 2008 2:06:15
Well a wizard would need to pick up the armor proficency feat first just to wear light armor, then another feat to wear medium armor and yet another for heavy armor.

That's not technically correct. You can wear armor that your not proficient with, but you add the armor check penalty to almost all your rolls instead of just a few.
#11
MrCustomer
Mar 16, 2008 2:17:17
That's not technically correct. You can wear armor that your not proficient with, but you add the armor check penalty to almost all your rolls instead of just a few.

YEs, but it also adds the Armor Check penelty to all Attack Roles, with many spells requiring Touch or Ranged Touch attacks it would not be a good idea to wear even Light armor without getting the appropriate proficiency
#12
Fireclave
Mar 16, 2008 2:27:52
YEs, but it also adds the Armor Check penelty to all Attack Roles, with many spells requiring Touch or Ranged Touch attacks it would not be a good idea to wear even Light armor without getting the appropriate proficiency

Unless the armor has no ACP in the first place, such has a mithral chain shirt. Just add Twillight, and you're set.
#13
runestar
Mar 16, 2008 2:30:25
YEs, but it also adds the Armor Check penelty to all Attack Roles, with many spells requiring Touch or Ranged Touch attacks it would not be a good idea to wear even Light armor without getting the appropriate proficiency

So simply don't use spells which require attack rolls. There certainly are more than enough to ensure that you won't have to rely on attacks.

As mentioned, a twillight mithril chainshirt has no ACP or ASF.

Greater luminous armour from BOED gives +8AC, and lasts forever (especially when extended).
#14
cold_napalm
Mar 16, 2008 13:16:19
Mithral bucklers are good. You don't get that armor check penalty for non-proficiency.

Darkwood and darkleaf armors also have less arcane spell failure chance.

Darkwood does nothing for ASF...only darkleaf.
#15
calronmoonflower
Mar 16, 2008 15:16:03
Darkwood does nothing for ASF...only darkleaf.

Oops, I answered from memory.
#16
salla
Mar 16, 2008 22:40:20
Unless the armor has no ACP in the first place, such has a mithral chain shirt. Just add Twillight, and you're set.

Exactly right. I often call the Mithral Chain Shirt of Twilight +1 'Wizard's Armor' simply because it's so frickin' useful.
#17
Nathreet
Mar 16, 2008 23:18:21 There's the spellsword, but you need proficiency with at least 1 martial weapon and BAB +5 to get it. Plus you only improve your spellcasting at odd levels.

If you want protection, here are the items: ring of protection (+1 to +5 AC, 2000gp * bonus squared), dusty rose prism ioun stone (+1 AC, 5000gp), amulet of health (+2/+4/+6 con, 1000gp * bonus squared), ring of force shield (+2 AC, 8000gp, does not stack with a shield), bracers of armor (+1 to +8 AC, 1000gp * bonus squared, does not stack with armor or mage armor), monk's belt (wis bonus + 1 AC, 13,000gp), gloves of dexterity (+2/+4/+6 dex, 1000gp * bonus squared). Just mix it up and get the cheaper items first. +1 here, +1 there and you'll have a great AC.

There's also the spell greater mage armor from spell compendium I think. It's 3rd level and gives +6 AC. A quickened shield at the beginning of every combat gives +4 AC.

A party cleric with magic vestment can enchant your armor or clothes each day (does not stack with mage armor, bracers of armor). A party druid can hit you with barkskin. Barkskin stacks with everything else I mentioned.

There is one more simple way. There aren't very many mid or low level spells that don't require a somatic component. And those are utility spells like truestrike and dimension door. But there are a large number of high level spells with no somatic component. Even wish has no somatic component. Just pick those spells and use still spell on the lower level spells that need it.

You don't need armor proficiency to wear armor. Wearing armor without proficiency merely applies the armor check penalty to your attack rolls, strength based skill checks, and dexterity based skill checks. The armor check penalty for mithral is 2 less than normal armor. The penalty for MW armor is 1 less. So anyone can wear a mithril shirt without a problem, because it has no armor check penalty.
#18
pwydde
Mar 16, 2008 23:35:08 What's wrong with Mage Armor? After you've got a few levels, it's cast-and-forget. Put it on after you have your orange juice in the morning.
#19
salla
Mar 17, 2008 0:16:44
What's wrong with Mage Armor? After you've got a few levels, it's cast-and-forget. Put it on after you have your orange juice in the morning.

It costs you a spell slot (admittedly, only a 1st level one), and can be dispelled. Unless you Persist it, you're also going to have to cast it at least twice to have the protection 24-hours a day. You can sleep without penalty in light armor. And it caps at +4. The +1 Mithral Chain Shirt of Twilight is +5 base and can be easily improved, and can come with other enhancements.
#20
Fireclave
Mar 17, 2008 0:37:24
What's wrong with Mage Armor? After you've got a few levels, it's cast-and-forget. Put it on after you have your orange juice in the morning.

In addition to what Salla said, Mage Armor also costs a spell known for spontaneous casters, specifically Sorcerers. And they get so precious few spells known to start with.
#21
kelvinaw273
Mar 17, 2008 2:18:07 If you are playing Eberron, though, the Mark of Warding has it's merits.
#22
salla
Mar 17, 2008 2:26:44
If you are playing Eberron, though, the Mark of Warding has it's merits.

Agreed.
#23
ecalsneerg
Mar 17, 2008 11:31:02 Especially considering (well, I see it all the time), free Dragonmark feats are an oft-used house rule :D
#24
Zherog
Mar 17, 2008 11:38:30
I'll add, though, that if you have a decent Wisdom score a dip level of Monk or two can be worthwhile to get your AC up.

Or get a monk's belt so you don't screw your caster level.
#25
runestar
Mar 18, 2008 0:21:17 It is tempting to splash 1 lv of monk in tandem with kungfu genius for int mod to AC though...:P
#26
kelvinaw273
Mar 18, 2008 2:21:04
It is tempting to splash 1 lv of monk in tandem with kungfu genius for int mod to AC though...:P

Now that WOULD be worth the loss of a caster level!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 fishfinger Mar 15, 2008 9:19:39	is there anyway a wizard can possible wear any form of armor other then mage armor or shield or any other type of spell and seriously reduce spell faluire or have none at all maybe a few feats such as still spell and silent spell, would that cut out all spell faliure?
#2 kelvinaw273 Mar 15, 2008 9:25:03	Still Spell reduces all spell failure to zero, as does any spell without a somatic component. There are various forms of armour and some class abilities that reduce spell failure chances, but few get rid of them entirely. Muthral works if it's metal armour, but the long and the short of it is, if you are a wizard, suck up that bad AC. I'll add, though, that if you have a decent Wisdom score a dip level of Monk or two can be worthwhile to get your AC up.
#3 makuya Mar 15, 2008 9:29:03	There's a fighter alternate class feature in Complete Mage. You'll only be proficient with light armor, but you can ignore spell failure from light armor. More fighter levels mean higher spell levels by the way.
#4 nightwyrm Mar 15, 2008 13:08:42	Mithril chain shirt with twilight enchantment has 0 ASF. Costs you about 5000 though and takes up the body slot. Going with mage armor or greater mage armor is probably more cost effective.
#5 nordicbirch Mar 15, 2008 19:28:33	There's a whole lot of different things for this. Mithril, Twilight, Thistledown padding etc. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=989131 Full Plate with 0% Spell Failure. (Also remember that you don't really need the armor proficiency feats, the penalties shouldn't really matter to you.)
#6 cold_napalm Mar 15, 2008 21:29:58	Mithril twilight breast plate with thisledown padding is 0% ASF. A mithril twilight githcraft full plate with thisledown padding is also 0% ASF. Those are the two major ones.
#7 calronmoonflower Mar 15, 2008 21:38:31	Mithral bucklers are good. You don't get that armor check penalty for non-proficiency. Darkwood and darkleaf armors also have less arcane spell failure chance.
#8 necroramo Mar 15, 2008 22:39:35	I've always been a fan of Greater Luminous Armor myself
#9 MrCustomer Mar 15, 2008 23:33:06	Well a wizard would need to pick up the armor proficency feat first just to wear light armor, then another feat to wear medium armor and yet another for heavy armor. Still Spell, a Meta Magic rod of Still Spell (do they make those) or spells without somantic copmponents are another way, since arcane spell failure only applies to spells that require movement. Then you would need to have the armor made from materials that lower it's arcane failure. But really those are a waste of feats and effort. What your Wizard should do is look for items such as Ring of Protection, Bracers of Armor and Amulet of Natural Armor are ways to raise your AC without wearing any armor at all. Also items that raise your Dex score is another way to raise your AC as well as yoru Reflex save, Ranged Combat and various skills. Also, not to be overlooked is looking for items that raise your HP, Ac is not the only thing that protects you, damage can be done by Touch Attacks that ignore your Armor Bonus, spells that work off of your Reflex or Fortitude saves, etc. So raising your HPs (Amulet of Health for example) is also important. Take into consideration that even with a raised AC, enemies with high attack bonus will still be able to hit you and you need to be able to absorb that damage. Don't get overly focused on AC, the Feat needed for a wizard to wear armor isn't worth it in the long run.
#10 calronmoonflower Mar 16, 2008 2:06:15	Well a wizard would need to pick up the armor proficency feat first just to wear light armor, then another feat to wear medium armor and yet another for heavy armor. That's not technically correct. You can wear armor that your not proficient with, but you add the armor check penalty to almost all your rolls instead of just a few.
#11 MrCustomer Mar 16, 2008 2:17:17	That's not technically correct. You can wear armor that your not proficient with, but you add the armor check penalty to almost all your rolls instead of just a few. YEs, but it also adds the Armor Check penelty to all Attack Roles, with many spells requiring Touch or Ranged Touch attacks it would not be a good idea to wear even Light armor without getting the appropriate proficiency
#12 Fireclave Mar 16, 2008 2:27:52	YEs, but it also adds the Armor Check penelty to all Attack Roles, with many spells requiring Touch or Ranged Touch attacks it would not be a good idea to wear even Light armor without getting the appropriate proficiency Unless the armor has no ACP in the first place, such has a mithral chain shirt. Just add Twillight, and you're set.
#13 runestar Mar 16, 2008 2:30:25	YEs, but it also adds the Armor Check penelty to all Attack Roles, with many spells requiring Touch or Ranged Touch attacks it would not be a good idea to wear even Light armor without getting the appropriate proficiency So simply don't use spells which require attack rolls. There certainly are more than enough to ensure that you won't have to rely on attacks. As mentioned, a twillight mithril chainshirt has no ACP or ASF. Greater luminous armour from BOED gives +8AC, and lasts forever (especially when extended).
#14 cold_napalm Mar 16, 2008 13:16:19	Mithral bucklers are good. You don't get that armor check penalty for non-proficiency. Darkwood and darkleaf armors also have less arcane spell failure chance. Darkwood does nothing for ASF...only darkleaf.
#15 calronmoonflower Mar 16, 2008 15:16:03	Darkwood does nothing for ASF...only darkleaf. Oops, I answered from memory.
#16 salla Mar 16, 2008 22:40:20	Unless the armor has no ACP in the first place, such has a mithral chain shirt. Just add Twillight, and you're set. Exactly right. I often call the Mithral Chain Shirt of Twilight +1 'Wizard's Armor' simply because it's so frickin' useful.
#17 Nathreet Mar 16, 2008 23:18:21	There's the spellsword, but you need proficiency with at least 1 martial weapon and BAB +5 to get it. Plus you only improve your spellcasting at odd levels. If you want protection, here are the items: ring of protection (+1 to +5 AC, 2000gp * bonus squared), dusty rose prism ioun stone (+1 AC, 5000gp), amulet of health (+2/+4/+6 con, 1000gp * bonus squared), ring of force shield (+2 AC, 8000gp, does not stack with a shield), bracers of armor (+1 to +8 AC, 1000gp * bonus squared, does not stack with armor or mage armor), monk's belt (wis bonus + 1 AC, 13,000gp), gloves of dexterity (+2/+4/+6 dex, 1000gp * bonus squared). Just mix it up and get the cheaper items first. +1 here, +1 there and you'll have a great AC. There's also the spell greater mage armor from spell compendium I think. It's 3rd level and gives +6 AC. A quickened shield at the beginning of every combat gives +4 AC. A party cleric with magic vestment can enchant your armor or clothes each day (does not stack with mage armor, bracers of armor). A party druid can hit you with barkskin. Barkskin stacks with everything else I mentioned. There is one more simple way. There aren't very many mid or low level spells that don't require a somatic component. And those are utility spells like truestrike and dimension door. But there are a large number of high level spells with no somatic component. Even wish has no somatic component. Just pick those spells and use still spell on the lower level spells that need it. You don't need armor proficiency to wear armor. Wearing armor without proficiency merely applies the armor check penalty to your attack rolls, strength based skill checks, and dexterity based skill checks. The armor check penalty for mithral is 2 less than normal armor. The penalty for MW armor is 1 less. So anyone can wear a mithril shirt without a problem, because it has no armor check penalty.
#18 pwydde Mar 16, 2008 23:35:08	What's wrong with Mage Armor? After you've got a few levels, it's cast-and-forget. Put it on after you have your orange juice in the morning.
#19 salla Mar 17, 2008 0:16:44	What's wrong with Mage Armor? After you've got a few levels, it's cast-and-forget. Put it on after you have your orange juice in the morning. It costs you a spell slot (admittedly, only a 1st level one), and can be dispelled. Unless you Persist it, you're also going to have to cast it at least twice to have the protection 24-hours a day. You can sleep without penalty in light armor. And it caps at +4. The +1 Mithral Chain Shirt of Twilight is +5 base and can be easily improved, and can come with other enhancements.
#20 Fireclave Mar 17, 2008 0:37:24	What's wrong with Mage Armor? After you've got a few levels, it's cast-and-forget. Put it on after you have your orange juice in the morning. In addition to what Salla said, Mage Armor also costs a spell known for spontaneous casters, specifically Sorcerers. And they get so precious few spells known to start with.
#21 kelvinaw273 Mar 17, 2008 2:18:07	If you are playing Eberron, though, the Mark of Warding has it's merits.
#22 salla Mar 17, 2008 2:26:44	If you are playing Eberron, though, the Mark of Warding has it's merits. Agreed.
#23 ecalsneerg Mar 17, 2008 11:31:02	Especially considering (well, I see it all the time), free Dragonmark feats are an oft-used house rule :D
#24 Zherog Mar 17, 2008 11:38:30	I'll add, though, that if you have a decent Wisdom score a dip level of Monk or two can be worthwhile to get your AC up. Or get a monk's belt so you don't screw your caster level.
#25 runestar Mar 18, 2008 0:21:17	It is tempting to splash 1 lv of monk in tandem with kungfu genius for int mod to AC though...:P
#26 kelvinaw273 Mar 18, 2008 2:21:04	It is tempting to splash 1 lv of monk in tandem with kungfu genius for int mod to AC though...:P Now that WOULD be worth the loss of a caster level!