Roleplay Situation - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Roleplay Situation

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
crayne
Jun 07, 2013 11:54:55 My party will be facing a powerful enemy in next game. However this enemy is very full of himself and wields the wand of doom, which could kill with no effort, if the enemy wishes. I've been searching arguments to convince him to fight us, but wasn't really successful. Do you ppl have some ideas?

What i had in mind was, telling of my characters part exploits with history, diplomacy and bluff.

Intimidate is automatic failure.
#2
salla
Jun 07, 2013 12:03:13 ... why do you want someone with an instakill effect to fight you? Isn't that kind of asking for it?
#3
DaBeerds
Jun 07, 2013 12:10:01 I have to agree with Salla. A direct confrontation is a suicide mission.

That being said, there are plenty of options with regard to indirect assaults.
#4
crayne
Jun 07, 2013 12:11:06 Actually we dont want to, but he's blocking our way and has an item we need. It's a skill challenge, if we win we won't use the instakill thing anymore (at least the DM said so).
#5
Centauri
Jun 07, 2013 12:13:03
My party will be facing a powerful enemy in next game. However this enemy is very full of himself and wields the wand of doom, which could kill with no effort, if the enemy wishes. I've been searching arguments to convince him to fight us, but wasn't really successful. Do you ppl have some ideas?

What i had in mind was, telling of my characters part exploits with history, diplomacy and bluff.

Intimidate is automatic failure.

Why do you want him to fight you?

Talk to your DM about his expectations. Real, logical argument is tricky in D&D, because there's not always a logical reason why things happen, and people don't always have logical reasons for doing what they do. Looked at logically, the adventurers probably wouldn't even be adventuring. So, if the DM doesn't want the enemy to be convinced of your arguments to fight you, he doesn't have to.

The main reason to fight someone is to give them an incentive to stop doing what they're doing. So, if you actually want this guy to fight you, just ignore him and set about breaking his stuff, and dismantling his plans.
#6
iserith
Jun 07, 2013 12:15:21 Convince him he's being honored at a festival for being the awesome and powerful guy he is. Pay for a big to-do: feast, entertainers, speakers, the whole nine yards, and throw some gold to the locals to come and cheer the guy on. After he's given his trophy or whatever and while he's making his acceptance speech (which of course is two hours long and full of stories of how great he thinks he is), steal his wand and snap it like a twig. Then throw a pie at him and kick his ass.
#7
crayne
Jun 07, 2013 12:21:47 That's a cool and funny idea, but first we'd have to convince him that he's someone else. I doubt, that he'll leave the dungeon room he's guarding, for a festival...

The wand of doom was also more of a metaphor, we don't know yet, how he can do it.
#8
salla
Jun 07, 2013 15:07:19 What level and what edition are you playing?
#9
crayne
Jun 07, 2013 15:43:25 4e, LV 16
#10
Centauri
Jun 07, 2013 17:57:56
That's a cool and funny idea, but first we'd have to convince him that he's someone else. I doubt, that he'll leave the dungeon room he's guarding, for a festival...

If he's a guard, and you want him to fight you, just try to mess with the thing he's guarding.
#11
crayne
Jun 07, 2013 19:04:27 Then we'd be at the instant death thing again. We'd have to impress him somehow, like stealing his pants, but the rules for such stuff make it really impossible.

We might pose as his superior and use knowledge we gained about him already, to support the bluff...

The end could be like "you have failed me, they stole my pants, give me back the wand of doom."
#12
Centauri
Jun 07, 2013 19:17:13
Then we'd be at the instant death thing again.

Sorry, I just don't get it. You want to get him to fight you, but he can instantly kill you?

This is really something you need to clarify with your DM. It happens that a DM makes what they think is a cool, compelling puzzle, but fail to realize that the players are never going to hit on the solution the DM is expecting. Not much for the DM to do but let them in on the answer and move on.

What if you just leave the guy alone and come back when you're more powerful?

#13
1red13
Jun 08, 2013 17:41:06 Steal his wand. Level 16 rogues should be darn good at sneaking and stealing
#14
crayne
Jun 09, 2013 5:53:48 We'd like to leave him alone, but he's either guarding the artifact to defeat the all powerful lich, or his phylactery.
#15
iserith
Jun 09, 2013 9:23:38 Let me ask you this, out of curiosity: Does your whole table do this "Yes, but..." thing you're doing here? "That could work but here's why it wouldn't." "I like that idea but such and such will prevent it." "What about... oh wait, no, yadda yadda. So that won't work."

Because what I'm sensing is not that the problem is hard to solve. It's that it's hard to get ideas past anyone at your table. Or you're trying to guess the DM's One True Solution which is a total DM fail.

In either case, that makes it really hard to help you or to even play D&D.
#16
ghost007
Jun 09, 2013 20:49:25 Your dm wants you guys to think outside the box to deal with this situation. The boundary he set is that you shouldnt confront him in combat. Henceforth the wand of doooom. He has something you want, which you cant take by force. You then resort to cunning. Do your homework, gather as much intel on your target..his strengths (killer wand apparently), weakness (puffed up pride apparently), his lair, habits, etc etc. Then plan out how to get to that artifact you need, either stealing it, or deceiving him somehow to give it or both..
Have plan a to c laid put and execute. Think of mission impossible. Your dm should be impressed and will most likely help your plan to succeed.
#17
JeffGroves
Jun 11, 2013 17:35:47 If you steal the Wand of Doom, can you use it then?
#18
crayne
Jun 12, 2013 1:44:22 As i said in an earlier post: The wand of doom was also more of a metaphor, we don't know how he kills.
#19
guest1476755973
Jun 12, 2013 15:40:18
As i said in an earlier post: The wand of doom was also more of a metaphor, we don't know how he kills.

As I understand your DM wants you to roleplay more and don't battle since you will be killed.Maybe you can convince him or intimidate him somehow to not battle you directly but in a different challenge.One by one punches or one by one brasfer fight so not use his doom ability wand etc.The other thing is to grab him and disarm him but this is a bit risky.So I suggest see the whole situation since you don't describe us a lot of stuff and roleplay according.Maybe you can convince him to leave the place he guards to give him something or see something unique(you can start some illusions with your mage to be more realistic so he wants to really leave his guarding place)
#20
Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe
Jun 12, 2013 16:21:01
Actually we dont want to, but he's blocking our way and has an item we need. It's a skill challenge, if we win we won't use the instakill thing anymore (at least the DM said so).

I smell a lot of coal-smoke coming from the railroad here.

Is the skill challenge to avoid the railroad?

Find a way to get along without the item, because there's more than one way to skin a cat.

#21
thadian
Jun 17, 2013 9:12:10
Actually we dont want to, but he's blocking our way and has an item we need. It's a skill challenge, if we win we won't use the instakill thing anymore (at least the DM said so).

I smell a lot of coal-smoke coming from the railroad here.

Is the skill challenge to avoid the railroad?

Find a way to get along without the item, because there's more than one way to skin a cat.

This. Is it resolved? What did you do, and how did the DM respond?

I would suggest to find what the "guardian" wants. He might want to send you on the quest (He is a conductor, or invisible barrier), he might want to demonstrate his teh awe-some! (in professional wrestling terms, "sell a promo"). You said you have information on this characters past. Maybe the DM wants you to convert a villain to "your side", perhaps to betray you at some point. This is bad DM'ing in my book, but I digress.
#22
crayne
Jun 17, 2013 9:17:10 It has not been resovled, but we have no date for the next session, either.
#23
thadian
Jun 17, 2013 9:35:15 Kefka is one of my favorite villains by the way.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 crayne Jun 07, 2013 11:54:55	My party will be facing a powerful enemy in next game. However this enemy is very full of himself and wields the wand of doom, which could kill with no effort, if the enemy wishes. I've been searching arguments to convince him to fight us, but wasn't really successful. Do you ppl have some ideas? What i had in mind was, telling of my characters part exploits with history, diplomacy and bluff. Intimidate is automatic failure.
#2 salla Jun 07, 2013 12:03:13	... why do you want someone with an instakill effect to fight you? Isn't that kind of asking for it?
#3 DaBeerds Jun 07, 2013 12:10:01	I have to agree with Salla. A direct confrontation is a suicide mission. That being said, there are plenty of options with regard to indirect assaults.
#4 crayne Jun 07, 2013 12:11:06	Actually we dont want to, but he's blocking our way and has an item we need. It's a skill challenge, if we win we won't use the instakill thing anymore (at least the DM said so).
#5 Centauri Jun 07, 2013 12:13:03	My party will be facing a powerful enemy in next game. However this enemy is very full of himself and wields the wand of doom, which could kill with no effort, if the enemy wishes. I've been searching arguments to convince him to fight us, but wasn't really successful. Do you ppl have some ideas? What i had in mind was, telling of my characters part exploits with history, diplomacy and bluff. Intimidate is automatic failure. Why do you want him to fight you? Talk to your DM about his expectations. Real, logical argument is tricky in D&D, because there's not always a logical reason why things happen, and people don't always have logical reasons for doing what they do. Looked at logically, the adventurers probably wouldn't even be adventuring. So, if the DM doesn't want the enemy to be convinced of your arguments to fight you, he doesn't have to. The main reason to fight someone is to give them an incentive to stop doing what they're doing. So, if you actually want this guy to fight you, just ignore him and set about breaking his stuff, and dismantling his plans.
#6 iserith Jun 07, 2013 12:15:21	Convince him he's being honored at a festival for being the awesome and powerful guy he is. Pay for a big to-do: feast, entertainers, speakers, the whole nine yards, and throw some gold to the locals to come and cheer the guy on. After he's given his trophy or whatever and while he's making his acceptance speech (which of course is two hours long and full of stories of how great he thinks he is), steal his wand and snap it like a twig. Then throw a pie at him and kick his ass.
#7 crayne Jun 07, 2013 12:21:47	That's a cool and funny idea, but first we'd have to convince him that he's someone else. I doubt, that he'll leave the dungeon room he's guarding, for a festival... The wand of doom was also more of a metaphor, we don't know yet, how he can do it.
#8 salla Jun 07, 2013 15:07:19	What level and what edition are you playing?
#9 crayne Jun 07, 2013 15:43:25	4e, LV 16
#10 Centauri Jun 07, 2013 17:57:56	That's a cool and funny idea, but first we'd have to convince him that he's someone else. I doubt, that he'll leave the dungeon room he's guarding, for a festival... If he's a guard, and you want him to fight you, just try to mess with the thing he's guarding.
#11 crayne Jun 07, 2013 19:04:27	Then we'd be at the instant death thing again. We'd have to impress him somehow, like stealing his pants, but the rules for such stuff make it really impossible. We might pose as his superior and use knowledge we gained about him already, to support the bluff... The end could be like "you have failed me, they stole my pants, give me back the wand of doom."
#12 Centauri Jun 07, 2013 19:17:13	Then we'd be at the instant death thing again. Sorry, I just don't get it. You want to get him to fight you, but he can instantly kill you? This is really something you need to clarify with your DM. It happens that a DM makes what they think is a cool, compelling puzzle, but fail to realize that the players are never going to hit on the solution the DM is expecting. Not much for the DM to do but let them in on the answer and move on. What if you just leave the guy alone and come back when you're more powerful?
#13 1red13 Jun 08, 2013 17:41:06	Steal his wand. Level 16 rogues should be darn good at sneaking and stealing
#14 crayne Jun 09, 2013 5:53:48	We'd like to leave him alone, but he's either guarding the artifact to defeat the all powerful lich, or his phylactery.
#15 iserith Jun 09, 2013 9:23:38	Let me ask you this, out of curiosity: Does your whole table do this "Yes, but..." thing you're doing here? "That could work but here's why it wouldn't." "I like that idea but such and such will prevent it." "What about... oh wait, no, yadda yadda. So that won't work." Because what I'm sensing is not that the problem is hard to solve. It's that it's hard to get ideas past anyone at your table. Or you're trying to guess the DM's One True Solution which is a total DM fail. In either case, that makes it really hard to help you or to even play D&D.
#16 ghost007 Jun 09, 2013 20:49:25	Your dm wants you guys to think outside the box to deal with this situation. The boundary he set is that you shouldnt confront him in combat. Henceforth the wand of doooom. He has something you want, which you cant take by force. You then resort to cunning. Do your homework, gather as much intel on your target..his strengths (killer wand apparently), weakness (puffed up pride apparently), his lair, habits, etc etc. Then plan out how to get to that artifact you need, either stealing it, or deceiving him somehow to give it or both.. Have plan a to c laid put and execute. Think of mission impossible. Your dm should be impressed and will most likely help your plan to succeed.
#17 JeffGroves Jun 11, 2013 17:35:47	If you steal the Wand of Doom, can you use it then?
#18 crayne Jun 12, 2013 1:44:22	As i said in an earlier post: The wand of doom was also more of a metaphor, we don't know how he kills.
#19 guest1476755973 Jun 12, 2013 15:40:18	As i said in an earlier post: The wand of doom was also more of a metaphor, we don't know how he kills. As I understand your DM wants you to roleplay more and don't battle since you will be killed.Maybe you can convince him or intimidate him somehow to not battle you directly but in a different challenge.One by one punches or one by one brasfer fight so not use his doom ability wand etc.The other thing is to grab him and disarm him but this is a bit risky.So I suggest see the whole situation since you don't describe us a lot of stuff and roleplay according.Maybe you can convince him to leave the place he guards to give him something or see something unique(you can start some illusions with your mage to be more realistic so he wants to really leave his guarding place)
#20 Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe Jun 12, 2013 16:21:01	Actually we dont want to, but he's blocking our way and has an item we need. It's a skill challenge, if we win we won't use the instakill thing anymore (at least the DM said so). I smell a lot of coal-smoke coming from the railroad here. Is the skill challenge to avoid the railroad? Find a way to get along without the item, because there's more than one way to skin a cat.
#21 thadian Jun 17, 2013 9:12:10	Actually we dont want to, but he's blocking our way and has an item we need. It's a skill challenge, if we win we won't use the instakill thing anymore (at least the DM said so). I smell a lot of coal-smoke coming from the railroad here. Is the skill challenge to avoid the railroad? Find a way to get along without the item, because there's more than one way to skin a cat. This. Is it resolved? What did you do, and how did the DM respond? I would suggest to find what the "guardian" wants. He might want to send you on the quest (He is a conductor, or invisible barrier), he might want to demonstrate his teh awe-some! (in professional wrestling terms, "sell a promo"). You said you have information on this characters past. Maybe the DM wants you to convert a villain to "your side", perhaps to betray you at some point. This is bad DM'ing in my book, but I digress.
#22 crayne Jun 17, 2013 9:17:10	It has not been resovled, but we have no date for the next session, either.
#23 thadian Jun 17, 2013 9:35:15	Kefka is one of my favorite villains by the way.