So how do you guys roleplay bards? and if you do happen to be the wandering minstral type..how could i make it more interesting to play?
Or, if you are in a flamboyant mood, you can play a primadonna.
For his background, most of the people in his tribe are Experts, Barbarians, or Rangers for day-to-day foraging and defense capabilities, with a few Druids as spiritual advisors and Bards as historians and general lorekeepers. (The DM encourages player input into the campaign setting.) Early on, I played up his role as a jack-of-all-trades. Since Savage Bards have Survival as a class skill, I gave him the Track feat. I used that and his weapon selection (a spear and shortbow) to emphasize his role as a hunter. His primary Perform skill was singing, which I typically describe as an epic historical or legendary saga, which is the way the illiterate Neanderthal population keeps history. He also learned a couple of Cure spells so that he could operate as a backup healer-- something that was expected of many bards back home. Later, about the time he took his first Barbarian level, I gave him the Battle Caster feat, allowing him to wear Medium armor. At a height of 7'4" and wearing blue ice full plate, he's far from the prancing ninny that people usually seem to think of when they hear the word "bard".
I got lucky on my stat rolls (two 17s and an 18) so I roleplayed the guy as a martial character that would sing a battle hymn while swinging his shortspears. He was a quirky guy that could switch between melee and ranged combat at the drop of a hat and shunned the rigid discipline of his hometown's militia. Though he was skilled in many aspects (Jack-of-all-trades, master of none) he felt something stir deep in his soul when he heard the battle hymns of the militia men.
As I leveled up I allowed for the character to develop an increasing interest in using music to accentuate his battle presence, thus making his eventual multiclassing into Lyric Thaumaturge and Seeker of the Song a more natural progression. Though I must admit, this was purely so that I could play the SotS PrC (a PrC that does everything I always wanted a bard to be able to do).
If you take the War Chanter prestige class from Complete Warrior it boosts your effectiveness in combat, and gives you new effects for (and extra uses of) your Bardic music. So you can even be a leader that mixes things up on the front lines rather than hiding in the back.
I dumped alotta points into move silently/hide etc. and then attempted to talk fast outta situations when I got caught (which always happened at least once a session lol made for some good/fun/memorable RP moments).
Anyways, it's weird I just realized, i've NEVER used a bards music abilities (inspire courage etc.) yet i've always taken perform ranks and had an instrument. lol.
but used them for spells etc.
I find them fun to play when i dont know WHAT i want to be as they are kinda a mash up of everything, lil bit of melee combat, lil bit of spellcasting, lil bit of rogue. so on and so forth.
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Got ALL the girls (Milk Maid, Princess, little Koriki girl, Princess of Zoras), played a instrument with mystical songs for magical effects, could use some magic here and there, and he was a decent fighter but not a tank.)
Play Link from the Legend of Zelda
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Got ALL the girls (Milk Maid, Princess, little Koriki girl, Princess of Zoras), played a instrument with mystical songs for magical effects, could use some magic here and there, and he was a decent fighter but not a tank.)
I always wondered what Link would be considered.
But anyways, for playing a bard you can go with the typical booster, or go with the idea that he's more of a historian and work on the bardic knowledge aspect. There are quite a few good PRCs for bards, maybe look to them to see if they can help you think about what you want your bard to be.
So how do you guys roleplay bards? and if you do happen to be the wandering minstral type..how could i make it more interesting to play?
I'm currently playing a half-elf bard in a seafaring campaign, and the track I've taken with her is very much the impulsive, swashbuckling, flamboyant, party lead type. She's often the first to charge into melee, and I took a couple of levels of fighter to beef up her combat effectiveness. My DM has been generous enough to allow me a custom feat that lets her utilize her bardic music while engaged in melee, which means she isn't relegated to sitting around in the background singing while the rest of the party fights. I chose the whip as her primary weapon, which in most situations would be a sub-optimal choice, but it fit the character concept. So my DM has also allowed a feat which lets the bard's whip do lethal damage, and a few other custom feats I intend to take at higher levels that will let her optimize the use of her primary weapon.
By most measures this character probably shouldn't work as well as she does, but in the setting we're using and the style of play this group prefers, she's really effective. She's the ship's captain, the back-up healer, one of the primary melee combatants, and very often serves as the 'face' of the party. (When that role isn't taken by the hot elven sorceress with the insane charisma score, that is.) The reason she's effective is that all of us spent a fair amount of time pre-game discussing character concepts and the DM is willing and able to customize the campaign to fit what we as players want to do. I'd say that if you want to play a bard, come up with a character concept you like and discuss it with your gaming group. See what the DM is willing to do in terms of house rules to accommodate the concept you have, and go from there.
"rope?"
"check"
"10' pole?"
"check"
"healing potions?"
"check"
"spare lute strings?"
"nope"
"gahhh we're doomed!!"
i dunno, i dont want to crap on the class..i'm really trying to like it. i thought of playing a jester type..but even then i think i could do it better with more rogue levels than bard.
But the bard...well...like i said, i just see them as wandering minstrals
Your focusing on the bardic music aspect of the class that you are missing the forrest for the trees. I don't think you are intentionally doing so, but the minstrel aspect is the one you keep bringing up. So let's tackle that part first.
Bards don't have to be minstrels. They can, and iconicly are, but you have other, less musically incline ways off getting bardic music off. Act, Commedy, Dance, and Oratory as options, with Oratory typically being the favored of players who don't want a singing bard.
How can a non-minstrel use perform? Try these (which are just off the top of my head):
Perform (Oratory) - Play your bard as a suave, motivational speaker.
Perform (Oratory) - Bards make great priest, and great inspirational/religious speakers.
Perform (Oratory) - Play a war general who uses his bardic music to regal his troops with strategic advice and inspirational stories of past campaigning experience.
Perform (Comedy) - Play your bard as a smart aleck whose skilled in talking smack about the BBEG's momma.
Perform (Dance) - Play your bard as a graceful martial artist (not necessarily an unarmed-type martial artist) whose movements are as precise as they are beautiful, inspiring awe in your allies (or fear in your foes by using feats like Haunting Melody and Frightful Presence).
Perform (Sing) - A slight reflavoring of Perform (Sing). Instead of singing songs to trigger, your bard vocalizes magic mantras, chants, and rituals. Unlike regular spells that are spoken once and are over with, your mantra are spells persist so long as you continue chant and for a brief time thereafter. Mechanically, this is the same, damn bardic music, but it gives your character a much more mystical, mysterious flavor.
But let's move away from bardic music for a second and compare the roguish aspects of the bard.
See thats the thing, anytime i want to play a rogue-ish character.. i just play a rogue...i could play them a million diffrent ways.
If you can play a rogue a million different ways, then you could do likewise with a bard. The only real big difference in features the rogue has over the bard, as far as filling the skill monkey role anyway, is trapfinding and sneak attack (but the bard can get Arcane Strike, which can be close enough).
Aside from bardic music, there's one big thing that makes a roguish bard different from a roguish rogue, and that's spells. A bard's spells gives him options that the rogue simply does not have, and imo, between the two, bards make superior spies. Just look at all of the secret agent "gadgets" they get.
Cloaking Device? Checked, and double checked. Flashy thing? Check.Holographic projector? Check. Flash grenades? Checked. Sleep gas? Check. Nerve gas? Check. Mini-watch with built-in laser cutter? Checked. Getaway Car? Checked. Teleportation Device? Check. Living face putty? Check. Security system scrambler? Check. Motivator? Check.
I'd go on, but I think I made my point. And that's just cherry picking through the PH without even trying to be creative.
I guess my point is this. You just have to be willing to look a little outside of the box. If you focus too hard on on aspect of a class or limit yourself to only one flavor interpretation, you miss out on all the other mechanical and flavor possibilities.
"spare lute strings?"
"nope"
"gahhh we're doomed!!"
That's what Summon Instrument is for :D
See thats the thing, anytime i want to play a rogue-ish character.. i just play a rogue...i could play them a million diffrent ways. But the bard...well...like i said, i just see them as wandering minstrals...i dont see what real use they'd have in most games
This is who the Bard I'm currently playing is based on. Of course he wouldn't be caught dead holding a lute.
Your Bard is a brooding, explosive warrior. He bursts into stirring, passionate song to express his emotions. His joy, his sadness, his fear, his excitement, his love.
Your Bard is a sad introspective soul. His music is filled with sadness that is deep within his heart. Allow time to tell the other players the source of his lamentations.
Your bard is a compulsive seeker of personal power. Just like the powerful wizard who seeks wisdom and knowledge (knowledge is power), he seeks lyrics, verse and song (prose is power).
A real cool cat, you dig?
I love High Int characters I just can't help it I love knowledge skills and I love bardic knowledge and I love perform comedy
My bard is sarcastic, smart and knows a little about everything.
Love him just by making fun of your enemy everyone in your party (that includes you unless your bard half selfsteem issues) will get a +2
but how often would his bardic abilites even come into function. its really how useful can my bard be along side a group of adventures that may happen to include at least one of each class?.
Every combat, at least. Inspire Courage is both the first, and probably, most useful of the bardic skill. While the save bonuses vs fear are situational, everyone in the party can benefit from the bonuses to attack rolls (including wizards, since they can use rays), and anyone wielding a weapon (melee or range) will benefit from the bonuses to damage. And there are builds on this board that can get the bonus into the 10's at least. And also note that the bonus affects everyone who can hear you, so the benefits are propotional to the size of your party (insert Leadership cheese here).
Though that's not to discount the bonuses vs fear. Fear effects stack, are there aren't many things worse than losing control of your character as he cowers and flees.
Facinate and Suggestion are great in social situation where you need to distract someone, extract some information, ect. The bard's Suggestion ability is better than the spell since it lacks the tell-tale spell components that single that you are about to mentally pwn the guy your talking to (which is one reason why bard's are such valuable party faces).
Song of Freedom is very situational, but Break Enchantment is one of those spells that you don't need until you really need it, so it's not a terrible ability.
The benefits of Inspire Greatness and Inspire Heroics are pretty self explanitory, but it's worth mentioning that the effects of all the Inspire [Something] effects stack. Something to keep in mind if you have plenty of time to buff before combat (especially if you have the Song of the Heart feat).
And there are feats and spells that can grant you new uses for bardic music or enhance/synergize with a bardic music ability you already have.
if theres a rogue, a wizard, and a fighter heck i'm pretty much just the "5th wheel"
Of course you are with that kind of attitude :P
theres a rogue, a wizard, and a fighter heck i'm pretty much just the "5th wheel"
Not really. For one thing you can fill in where the others cannot. Even though a rogue has a lot of skills, he cant cover every base. You can take the skills he doesn't have (if your rogue is a sneaky guy, you get all the gather information and social skills). Also your bard has all knowledges AND speak language as class skills, so your bard could easily be a fount of information about any and all sorts of subjects.
With a bard, you have to be especially clever in your selections, paying a lot more attention to your allies' abilities and strengths and weaknesses so you can fill in where you are needed. A bard cannot compete with other classes in their selected fields, but can pick up some of the things they may leave behind.
For example, the bard can pick up the spells the wizard may not have in his spellbook or care to memorize (which is especially helpful when travelling with a warmage or sorcerer who has an even more limited scope of spells). This is especially useful if the wizard is a specialist who has enchantment and/or illusion banned. (The bard can pick aup a lot of spells from those schools)
My DM has been generous enough to allow me a custom feat that lets her utilize her bardic music while engaged in melee, which means she isn't relegated to sitting around in the background singing while the rest of the party fights. .
Can you point me in the direction of that feat? It is just what I've been looking for!
Perform (Oratory) - Play your bard as a suave, motivational speaker. :D
When i design a bard without an intrument, this is the way i usually go..
Insulting the ennemy while making heroic speeches to motivate your friends, enthrall the weak-minded, charm the comely, you dont need an instrument to do that.
Feints and intimidate are good skills/feats to hav, since they fit the concept.
Think the average heroic speeches from the character in LOTR. Or Elan in The order of the stick.. with his new prestige class. This is how i see an effective bard in action.
When i design a bard without an intrument, this is the way i usually go..
Insulting the ennemy while making heroic speeches to motivate your friends, enthrall the weak-minded, charm the comely, you dont need an instrument to do that.
Feints and intimidate are good skills/feats to hav, since they fit the concept.
Think the average heroic speeches from the character in LOTR. Or Elan in The order of the stick.. with his new prestige class. This is how i see an effective bard in action.
The last time I considered a bard, I was going to go for the 'military historian' sort, while looking for class substitutions for the abilities that didn't really work (like countersong and fascinate). Perform (oratory) for storytelling as his Perform of choice, with inspiring courage and competence (I couldn't find subs for those) with words of wisdom. "This reminds me of the Battle of Misty Falls ... General Gorax was surrounded by a dozen bugbears and had lost his weapon back during the initial ambush, but he ..."
The selecting spells like Phantom Threat and Tactical Precision instead of the more froo-froo stuff like Lullaby. Uh, and go Crusader, Jade Phoenix Mage and Sublime Chord, but I digress.
My DM has been generous enough to allow me a custom feat that lets her utilize her bardic music while engaged in melee, which means she isn't relegated to sitting around in the background singing while the rest of the party fights. .
Can you point me in the direction of that feat? It is just what I've been looking for!
Bolded to emphasize the important part.
My DM has been generous enough to allow me a custom feat that lets her utilize her bardic music while engaged in melee, which means she isn't relegated to sitting around in the background singing while the rest of the party fights.
You don't actually need any such feat.
PHB p. 29:
"Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn't require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate matic items by magic word (such as wands)."
If you're using one of the bardic music effects that does not require concentration, maintaining the effect is not a standard action; since no action is specified, maintaining the effect is presumably a free action. Certain actions are forbidden while maintaining a bardic music performance, but combat is not one of them.
Of the bardic music effects listed in the PHB, Countersong, Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness, and Inspire Heroics are not described as requiring the bard to concentrate; after starting the performance, the bard can take any actions (other than spellcasting and magic item use) that do not require whatever body parts are needed to maintain the performance. Fascinate, Inspire Competence, and Song of Freedom do require concentration, so a bard would not be able to fight while using those (although it would probably be a bad idea to try anyway). Suggestion and Mass Suggestion don't require concentration, but they only work during a use of Fascinate, which does require concentration.
In short, your DM owes you a feat. I'd suggest Melodic Casting (Complete Mage) so you can cast spells and activate magic items while singing (if you have sufficient actions to do so, which is the case if the song being used doesn't require concentration), or Sunken Song (Stormwrack) so you can sing underwater while holding your breath (if you use Perform: Sing and you aren't already amphibious).
1: Human Female. Claimed she was a witch. Her bardiac Knowledge was made to be peering into her minitiure crystal ball.
Her Bardic Music was renamed Charms.
Her spells were more aligned with spells that dealt with animals, status spells, and a few healing spells.
Did it change anything in the rules? No. They did the EXACT same thing as a normal bard, it was just word different.
2: The adventerer.
This guy was a jack of all trades. (More focused on skills). His Bardiac Knowledge? Changed to just general knowlede. Since he has traveled all over the world, and exprence many different things, he knows alot.
Bardic Music: Replaced with telling tales of all his adventures, and how he got out of it last time.
His spells were more based on utitily spells then anything, and a few healing. Again, he was more adventurer.
Its really not that hard to make characters other then the sterotype. Just have to use your imagnation. Which is the point of the game right
Can you point me in the direction of that feat? It is just what I've been looking for!
It's custom to my DM's campaign world, but the gist of it is that my character can expend two uses of bardic music to activate any of her 'Inspire' abilities upon a successful hit in melee combat. If she makes a successful charge attack, she can activate the 'inspire' ability for the standard one use of bardic music. If she rolls a critical on either a standard melee hit or a charge attack, she gets to activate it without expending any uses of bardic music.
You don't actually need any such feat.
PHB p. 29:
"Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn't require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate matic items by magic word (such as wands)."
If you're using one of the bardic music effects that does not require concentration, maintaining the effect is not a standard action; since no action is specified, maintaining the effect is presumably a free action. Certain actions are forbidden while maintaining a bardic music performance, but combat is not one of them.
I didn't explain myself well. The feat actually allows my character to activate any of the 'inspire' abilities as part of an attack action, rather than having to use a standard action and then go into combat after the ability is activated. Given we have a very small party, my character really can't afford to sit around on the sidelines during the first round of combat in order to start singing, so it's come in handy to be able to charge into combat and activate the bardic music at the same time.
By the way, I think bards work better in larger groups. They are flexible enough to back up the other classes, and their musical abilities that work on the entire group just get stronger the larger the party is. But you really need to have the support mindset.