ok i know this is probably a no brainer, but i know everyone has to roll for initiative to see who goes first, but what about which side goes first? the monsters or players? or do we roll for that too?
That is handled in the suprize round. Before the two groups are close enough to worry about combat (more or less - situation dictates really) the two 'groups' (actually the DM in secret) makes opposed spot/listen, hide/move sililently (or for 4E perseption vs. stealth) checks to determine what "side" and or individual characters are 'aware' of the other side.
The 'side' which is aware gets to take action against the 'side' which un-aware, all creatures on the aware 'side' may act.
After the suprize round is over then normal combat comenses and everyone rolls initiative. All good guy and bad initiatives go in to the same 'pool', so to speak, and combat occures in that order; with individual characters going first - last in order of initiative.
Some do it differently...but generally this is about right.
I usually roll initiative at round 1 (or surprise round if there is one)...Each creature "group" gets an initiative check, and the PC's each get an initiative check...makes it easier on me when all the orcs go on one count, and the orc cultist leader goes on another, and then PC's...makes it a bit interesting but ordered.
If there is a surprise round, the group with surprise gets its attacks, then you roll initiative...although ideally every monster should roll initiative like every PC, in fact nobody (almost nobody, anyway...I can't speak for every DM in the world) does it that way...if there are 3 kinds of monsters, each kind gets one initiative roll and they all act at the same time.
So...Druid PC rolls 24, Gelatinous Cube rolls a 22, Paladin PC rolls a 19, 5 Orc minions roll 17, etc...
Order is Druid, GC, Pally, and then all 5 orc minions...
If one side knew about the other in advance, then that side gets a surprise round.
If both sides didn't expect to meet any particular enemy, then there is no surprise round.
I'm fairly certain the DMG goes over this a bit.
If one side knew about the other in advance, then that side gets a surprise round.
If both sides didn't expect to meet any particular enemy, then there is no surprise round.
I'm fairly certain the DMG goes over this a bit.
True, good catch.
Having every PC go on the same init could seriously screw over my rogue :P
OP, are you asking how to determine initiative? Or are you asking "who rolls the dice first" to determine initiative? If the former, then go with the above advice. If the latter, then, while this has never been an issue in one of my campaigns, I can certainly see players arguing about it. They argue about everything else, so why not? The easiest way to handle it is for the DM to go first and the players to go all at the same time. If that doesn't settle it, then have them go clockwise around the table. Or counter clockwise. Then reverse it if you have to. Then find some new players. Seriously. I'm all for catering to the superstitions of my players, but when you have two or more that insist on going last (or first), it gets to be more trouble than it's worth.
@ Jake ?
I just tell every one to roll INIT. When I'm done for the monsters I ask every to give up their results. And, yes I do pay attention to make sure no one tries to cheat; though I have never had anyone attempt to cheat to date.
Yeah, me too. And I've never had a problem either. From the original post, it seems like the OP may be asking about what order to do the rolls in. It's kinda hard to tell, tho.
Edit for PS
PS: Love the animation in your gallery. Did you make it?
No, found it on DA. I wish I could do stuff like that though.
Yeah, me too. If you ever come across an image that looks 'gish-ish', i.e. fighter/wizard, let me know.
sure thing
Having every PC go on the same init could seriously screw over my rogue :P
Not really. Just delay until everybody else has moved, then move yourself into the best flanking position available. 