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save when stunned?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kardock
Jun 30, 2009 10:31:16 hi all,

yesterday we were arguing with our DM because he thinks that being stunned prevents us from making a save, vs poison in our case.

since a save is done after your round, you loose your actions for being stunned but you still make your save after, right?

can someone please tell me where i can see that in the PH?

thanks!
#2
marc_byrne
Jun 30, 2009 10:43:51 Page 279. (Index, saving throws :-)

Saving throws have nothing to do with conditions or actions. Its something that occurs at the end of your turn, every turn. One throw for each condition that needs it, regardless.
#3
kardock
Jun 30, 2009 10:55:34 yeah i saw that, i was hoping something with more punch to avoid discussion with the DM

thanks!
#4
marc_byrne
Jun 30, 2009 11:04:38 It really doesn't get much clearer. Stunned says 'You can't take actions' not 'you lose your turn'. If you lost your turn how are you suppose to save to remove a stun in cases where its lasting.

So, PC is stunned from random thing while its not the PC's turn. The initiative count gets to the PC's initiative and its his turn.

(From page 268)
Before you act, you keep track of certain effects. The
start of your turn always takes place, even if you’re
unconscious, and it takes no time in the game world.

THE START OF YOUR TURN
✦ Ongoing Damage: If you’re suffering ongoing
damage (page 278), you take the damage now.
✦ Regeneration: If you have regeneration (page 293),
you regain hit points now.
✦ Other Effects: Deal with any other effects that
occur at the start of your turn.
✦ End Effects: Some effects end automatically at the
start of your turn.
✦ No Actions: You can’t take any actions at the start
of your turn.

Then during your turn, you get actions, a standard, move, minor. (In this case, you're stunned, so none)

(The next page, btw)
After you act, you keep track of any effects that stop at
the end of your turn or that continue. The end of your
turn always takes place, even if you’re unconscious,
and it takes no time in the game world.

THE END OF YOUR TURN
✦ Saving Throws: You now make a saving throw
(page 279) against any effect on you that a save can
end.
✦ Check Actions Spent: Some powers and effects
can be sustained for multiple turns (see “Durations,”
page 278). Check that you spent the action required
to sustain a power or an effect during your turn.
If you didn’t spend the action, the power or effect
ends now.
✦ End Effects: Some effects end automatically at the
end of your turn.
✦ No Actions: You can’t take any actions at the end of
your turn.

#5
slobo777a
Jun 30, 2009 11:12:48 The stunned condition does not prevent you taking your turn.

It prevents you taking actions during your turn.

Turn start and turn end still occur, as do all associated book-keeping.

As a pointer to your DM: If you were stunned but had a beneficial effect ongoing that ended "at the end of your next turn", then it would still end on your intitiative, at the end of your turn, which must therefore still be happening - being stunned in that case might otherwise be quite a handy benefit!
#6
kardock
Jun 30, 2009 11:20:41 that's great!

thanks guys!
#7
anyr
Jun 30, 2009 11:25:03 If all that fails to work, show him a power like Primal Archetype that inflicts Stunned (save ends) and ask how it could possibly work otherwise.
#8
kardock
Jun 30, 2009 12:21:57
If all that fails to work, show him a power like Primal Archetype that inflicts Stunned (save ends) and ask how it could possibly work otherwise.

that's a definitive answer

many thanks!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kardock Jun 30, 2009 10:31:16	hi all, yesterday we were arguing with our DM because he thinks that being stunned prevents us from making a save, vs poison in our case. since a save is done after your round, you loose your actions for being stunned but you still make your save after, right? can someone please tell me where i can see that in the PH? thanks!
#2 marc_byrne Jun 30, 2009 10:43:51	Page 279. (Index, saving throws :-) Saving throws have nothing to do with conditions or actions. Its something that occurs at the end of your turn, every turn. One throw for each condition that needs it, regardless.
#3 kardock Jun 30, 2009 10:55:34	yeah i saw that, i was hoping something with more punch to avoid discussion with the DM thanks!
#4 marc_byrne Jun 30, 2009 11:04:38	It really doesn't get much clearer. Stunned says 'You can't take actions' not 'you lose your turn'. If you lost your turn how are you suppose to save to remove a stun in cases where its lasting. So, PC is stunned from random thing while its not the PC's turn. The initiative count gets to the PC's initiative and its his turn. (From page 268) Before you act, you keep track of certain effects. The start of your turn always takes place, even if you’re unconscious, and it takes no time in the game world. THE START OF YOUR TURN ✦ Ongoing Damage: If you’re suffering ongoing damage (page 278), you take the damage now. ✦ Regeneration: If you have regeneration (page 293), you regain hit points now. ✦ Other Effects: Deal with any other effects that occur at the start of your turn. ✦ End Effects: Some effects end automatically at the start of your turn. ✦ No Actions: You can’t take any actions at the start of your turn. Then during your turn, you get actions, a standard, move, minor. (In this case, you're stunned, so none) (The next page, btw) After you act, you keep track of any effects that stop at the end of your turn or that continue. The end of your turn always takes place, even if you’re unconscious, and it takes no time in the game world. THE END OF YOUR TURN ✦ Saving Throws: You now make a saving throw (page 279) against any effect on you that a save can end. ✦ Check Actions Spent: Some powers and effects can be sustained for multiple turns (see “Durations,” page 278). Check that you spent the action required to sustain a power or an effect during your turn. If you didn’t spend the action, the power or effect ends now. ✦ End Effects: Some effects end automatically at the end of your turn. ✦ No Actions: You can’t take any actions at the end of your turn.
#5 slobo777a Jun 30, 2009 11:12:48	The stunned condition does not prevent you taking your turn. It prevents you taking actions during your turn. Turn start and turn end still occur, as do all associated book-keeping. As a pointer to your DM: If you were stunned but had a beneficial effect ongoing that ended "at the end of your next turn", then it would still end on your intitiative, at the end of your turn, which must therefore still be happening - being stunned in that case might otherwise be quite a handy benefit!
#6 kardock Jun 30, 2009 11:20:41	that's great! thanks guys!
#7 anyr Jun 30, 2009 11:25:03	If all that fails to work, show him a power like Primal Archetype that inflicts Stunned (save ends) and ask how it could possibly work otherwise.
#8 kardock Jun 30, 2009 12:21:57	If all that fails to work, show him a power like Primal Archetype that inflicts Stunned (save ends) and ask how it could possibly work otherwise. that's a definitive answer many thanks!