Shapechange ruling needed PLZ - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Shapechange ruling needed PLZ

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
drsketch
Mar 14, 2010 21:56:26 So can you shapechange into a shade or vampire or any other template?? Since "Shade" is a template, its not a creature right ? Wouldnt you have to change into the "creature type" that the creature was originally, or is the creature now a shade creature type?

Simply, can you shapechange into a template ?

Thanks
#2
salla
Mar 14, 2010 22:12:59 You'll need to check the 3e polymorph errata, but if memory serves, it specifies that you cannot change into a creature with a template.
#3
drsketch
Mar 14, 2010 23:38:27 I looked at thhat and it said nothing about templates... The 3.5 players errata... 'I read also that shapechange is a temporary template so it couldnt stack with a creature that has a template, right ?
#4
salla
Mar 15, 2010 0:59:08 Okay, found it. Shapechange says it works just like polymorph, polymorph says it works like alter self, and alter self says "You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype."

So, no templates with Shapechange.
#5
dragonsblood
Mar 15, 2010 3:35:55
Shapechange says it works just like polymorph, polymorph says it works like alter self, and alter self says...

Reason 1001 to play 4e over 3.5
#6
salla
Mar 15, 2010 6:18:58
Shapechange says it works just like polymorph, polymorph says it works like alter self, and alter self says...

Reason 1001 to play 4e over 3.5

Amen.
#7
drag0nul
Mar 15, 2010 8:13:08 To answer the OP:

Shapechange/polymorph doesn't allow you to change into a template. As in, you could shapechange into a troll, but not into a half-dragon troll.

The reasoning behind this is mostly game balance(as much as 3.5 can be balanced): since templates provide stat increases but no HDs, you could stack as many templates as you wish on a creature, and your polymorph HD limit wouldn't be affected in any way.
#8
salla
Mar 15, 2010 8:20:07
To answer the OP:

Shapechange/polymorph doesn't allow you to change into a template. As in, you could shapechange into a troll, but not into a half-dragon troll.

The reasoning behind this is mostly game balance(as much as 3.5 can be balanced): since templates provide stat increases but no HDs, you could stack as many templates as you wish on a creature, and your polymorph HD limit wouldn't be affected in any way.

Plus, it would take forever for the player to apply all those templates and make the appropriate changes to his stats.
#9
LordOfWeasels
Mar 15, 2010 13:25:16
The reasoning behind this is mostly game balance(as much as 3.5 can be balanced): since templates provide stat increases but no HDs, you could stack as many templates as you wish on a creature, and your polymorph HD limit wouldn't be affected in any way.

Curses, my plan for a Half Amethyst, Half Battle, Half Beast, Half Black, Half Blue, Half Brass, Half Bronze, Half Chaos, Half Chiang Lung, Half Copper, Half Crystal, Half Deep, Half Emerald, Half Ethereal, Half Fang, Half Force, Half Gold, Half Green, Half Howling, Half Li Lung, Half Lung Wang, Half Oceanus, Half Pan Lung, Half Prismatic, Half Pyroclastic, Half Radiant, Half Red, Half Rust, Half Sapphire, Half Shadow, Half Shen Lung, Half Silver, Half Song, Half Styx, Half T’ien Lung, Half Tarterian, Half Topaz, Half Tun mi Long, Half White, Half Yu Lung Dragon... Gelatinous Cube have been foiled!

(courtesy of Hot Skitty On Wailord Action, for the record.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 drsketch Mar 14, 2010 21:56:26	So can you shapechange into a shade or vampire or any other template?? Since "Shade" is a template, its not a creature right ? Wouldnt you have to change into the "creature type" that the creature was originally, or is the creature now a shade creature type? Simply, can you shapechange into a template ? Thanks
#2 salla Mar 14, 2010 22:12:59	You'll need to check the 3e polymorph errata, but if memory serves, it specifies that you cannot change into a creature with a template.
#3 drsketch Mar 14, 2010 23:38:27	I looked at thhat and it said nothing about templates... The 3.5 players errata... 'I read also that shapechange is a temporary template so it couldnt stack with a creature that has a template, right ?
#4 salla Mar 15, 2010 0:59:08	Okay, found it. Shapechange says it works just like polymorph, polymorph says it works like alter self, and alter self says "You cannot take the form of any creature with a template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type or subtype." So, no templates with Shapechange.
#5 dragonsblood Mar 15, 2010 3:35:55	Shapechange says it works just like polymorph, polymorph says it works like alter self, and alter self says... Reason 1001 to play 4e over 3.5
#6 salla Mar 15, 2010 6:18:58	Shapechange says it works just like polymorph, polymorph says it works like alter self, and alter self says... Reason 1001 to play 4e over 3.5 Amen.
#7 drag0nul Mar 15, 2010 8:13:08	To answer the OP: Shapechange/polymorph doesn't allow you to change into a template. As in, you could shapechange into a troll, but not into a half-dragon troll. The reasoning behind this is mostly game balance(as much as 3.5 can be balanced): since templates provide stat increases but no HDs, you could stack as many templates as you wish on a creature, and your polymorph HD limit wouldn't be affected in any way.
#8 salla Mar 15, 2010 8:20:07	To answer the OP: Shapechange/polymorph doesn't allow you to change into a template. As in, you could shapechange into a troll, but not into a half-dragon troll. The reasoning behind this is mostly game balance(as much as 3.5 can be balanced): since templates provide stat increases but no HDs, you could stack as many templates as you wish on a creature, and your polymorph HD limit wouldn't be affected in any way. Plus, it would take forever for the player to apply all those templates and make the appropriate changes to his stats.
#9 LordOfWeasels Mar 15, 2010 13:25:16	The reasoning behind this is mostly game balance(as much as 3.5 can be balanced): since templates provide stat increases but no HDs, you could stack as many templates as you wish on a creature, and your polymorph HD limit wouldn't be affected in any way. Curses, my plan for a Half Amethyst, Half Battle, Half Beast, Half Black, Half Blue, Half Brass, Half Bronze, Half Chaos, Half Chiang Lung, Half Copper, Half Crystal, Half Deep, Half Emerald, Half Ethereal, Half Fang, Half Force, Half Gold, Half Green, Half Howling, Half Li Lung, Half Lung Wang, Half Oceanus, Half Pan Lung, Half Prismatic, Half Pyroclastic, Half Radiant, Half Red, Half Rust, Half Sapphire, Half Shadow, Half Shen Lung, Half Silver, Half Song, Half Styx, Half T’ien Lung, Half Tarterian, Half Topaz, Half Tun mi Long, Half White, Half Yu Lung Dragon... Gelatinous Cube have been foiled! (courtesy of Hot Skitty On Wailord Action, for the record.)