WILL
be in a situation that I
ABSOLUTELY
DO. NOT. WANT.
him to be in (hint: involves a bed and an NPC).
I have 3 main problems:
1) I really don't think this is what DnD is supposed to be about.
2) I'm worried about possible combat-related negative consequences
3) How is inter-species dating even supposed to work, anyway? (Don't answer that.)
If he continues forward with it, just stop. Say 'no'. If he continues to try to force it, pack up your stuff and just stop playing. There are a number of DM faux pas-es that can be forgiven or dealt with, but deliberately making a player uncomfortable is NOT one of them.
Look, railroading dms are a pain. you have to remind them that your a PLAYER, its your characters action. is your character dosent want to do something he dosent. why? becuse of Free will.
Now if this is some sort of sucubus or hag thats controling you then you might have fewer options. firstly is that once you have been dominated you should know that you have been, and it should be obvious who was doing it.
If this is just some random bar wench deal then dont go up un the room, make exuses/threats. "Uh i have to go for a walk to clear my head " Touch me again and ill break your arm" "im NOT into you".
Ultimatly if the DM wont listen to you, there is the last option. Walk away. Tell him that hes sucking the life out of the game. i would do this in public of the group to gadge their reactions, see if they are feeling the same way (or talk to them first to present a untited front). refuse to play until the old dm comes back.
If you feel you must play, and the Sub-DM won't back down, and you are forced into a sexual situation, have your character coup-de-grace the other person. And if the Sub-DM really wants to force a player into a **** situation, I'd say there's a real-world psychological issue going on.
If you feel you must play, and the Sub-DM won't back down, and you are forced into a sexual situation, have your character coup-de-grace the other person.
Alternately, your character could become a eunuch (assuming said character is male).
And if the Sub-DM really wants to force a player into a **** situation, I'd say there's a real-world psychological issue going on.
QFT.
Is he screwing with the other PCs as well, or just you?
The first thing I would do is ask the primary DM to guarantee that any ill effects will be removed when they come back. even f you can only do it over e-mail.
The sub-DM is crossing one of the lines no one mature would cross.
Is he screwing with the other PCs as well, or just you?
The first thing I would do is ask the primary DM to guarantee that any ill effects will be removed when they come back. even f you can only do it over e-mail.
Another good point.
Heck, e-mailing the primary DM and telling him what this guy's trying to do may well inspire him to contact the sub-DM and prompt a 'WTF are you pulling' conversation.
So make it about what D&D IS about... ... ... kill him/her and take her stuff.
But really unless, as previously stated, this is a sucubi or some other thing with charm effects or the npc is clorophorming you, there's nothing the DM can do to put you in that situation that you can't get out of at the very least by killing everyone around or your own character.
Finally the DM should look in to F.A.T.A.L (The worst game system ever designed EVER look at it for laughs or don't for your sanity) if he wants to start rapeing in D&D. what he is doing is totally past the limits of acceptable and far into the realm of disturbing. Tell him off.
Honestly, this type of a situation would be one of the few that would prompt me to pick up my character sheet, dice, and leave. I'd notify the absent DM of what's going on, and state that you'll be happy to join the game again when he/she comes back.
You aren't playing the game to cater to this guy's fantasies, you're playing to have fun.
In all seriousness, I'd ask them out of game what their obsession is with you bedding some random npc, I mean...that seems like a really weird thing to railroad, especially if they want it to be all...detailed.
In all seriousness, I'd ask them out of game what their obsession is with you bedding some random npc, I mean...that seems like a really weird thing to railroad, especially if they want it to be all...detailed.
Now that you mention it, there've been a handful of threads in the past about DMs who intentionally try to force PCs into situations they know the player or the PC themselves are very, very opposed to, and it's happened to me in the past.
If it's a PC only issue, then it can be done well and interesting, exploring what brought the PC to make the vow of celibacy or abstinence or whatever. However, you have to know where that line is between 'giving the player the spotlight' and 'getting really frickin' annoying'.
If it's a player issue, however, it needs to be left ALONE, period, end of discussion. A DM's Job Is Not To Squick The Players.
There used to be a whole bunch of examples, too, but I guess the page was overloaded and someone needed to purge it.
Get ropes/sashes etc that can help you bind up an overly aggressive bedmate.
Purchase a 'marital' aid:
- if your character is male obtain a french tickler sporting razor blades
- if your character is female get the inverse (may require magical enchanments ala 'bag of devouring' etc.)
No need to actually use the implements. Having the objects in your character's possession will cause the GM to pause.
I hate the word squick. It should not be used by people out of their teens. It just sounds so teeny.
So, what word to you use to describe something that makes you want to gouge your eyes out and scrub your skin with sandpaper after you see it?
So, what word to you use to describe something that makes you want to gouge your eyes out and scrub your skin with sandpaper after you see it?
A less teeny word. ;) A single word might be enough to describe such a feeling anyway. But I refuse to use squick. To me that's like the moms who wear their teenage daughters clothes.
So, what word to you use to describe something that makes you want to gouge your eyes out and scrub your skin with sandpaper after you see it?
It actually takes 2 words....
Rosie O'Donnell.
It actually takes 2 words....
Rosie O'Donnell.
Hmm that could certainly work. HEARING her is also just as bad as seeing her.
Go on about the joys of Edgy LARPing.
Ask if anyone has a webcam they can bring since you want to show the world your Groups antics on YouTube, "Why I love 4e."
Wait you think this is 4E's problem? It's not, you have never seen to the old mature forums have you?
The remarkably immature 'mature' forums?
The remarkably immature 'mature' forums?
Of course!:D
To play Devil's Advocate for the villified DM, I'm afraid the poster hasn't really given enough information to determine if there is a breach of DM conduct here.
As others have mentioned, is there a magical compulsion involved? Is the PC unconcious or otherwise helpless? Is a friend being used as hostage to force compliance?
Also, it was only written that the "character will be in a situation that I absolutely do not want." Isn't that the DM's job? I don't think too many characters would want to be on a collapsing bridge while being attacked by enemies on both sides either. Has the DM announced that he expects the PC to behave a certain way, or is he merely explaining that this is the circumstance that the PC will find himself in? The former is a legitimate issue of not being allowed to play one's character as desired. The latter is simply setting the stage which is, in fact, the function of the DM.
As others have mentioned, is there a magical compulsion involved? Is the PC unconcious or otherwise helpless? Is a friend being used as hostage to force compliance?
Irrelevant. If the PLAYER is going to be bothered or offended or disgusted by what's going on, you simply don't do it. If the PC is going to be bothered, but the PLAYER is fine with it, that's one thing. The OP states clearly that the PLAYER is bothered by this.
It should not happen. EVER.
Irrelevant. If the PLAYER is going to be bothered or offended or disgusted by what's going on, you simply don't do it. If the PC is going to be bothered, but the PLAYER is fine with it, that's one thing. The OP states clearly that the PLAYER is bothered by this.
It should not happen. EVER.
If we're talking about a player having an in-game situation that offends his real-life morals or values, then I agree. A DM should never inflict a sexual, religious or other culturally-sensitive situation that a player finds disagreeable.
My point is that in the OP, the situation he doesn't want is not defined, i.e. it is never specifically said that he as a problem with the seeming sexual nature of the issue. Is that it, or does he simply not care for the NPC he mentions? Would he be OK with it if it was a different NPC? Is he OK with the situation but not with the DM seemingly forcing him into it?
So again I say that we would need more specifics to determine whether the poster has a legitimate complaint here or not.
I refused, partly because she was described as very ugly, partly because I knew I couldn't stay with these people and didn't need a deadweight NPC following me around, partly because I don't believe in arranged marriages, and partly because I was playing a paladin for whom "No reward was necessary. Really. I mean it."
They wouldn't let me leave the canyon unless I married her. In desperation, I slaughtered the guards and several innocent villagers trying to break out, but some kind of invisible wall blocked me.
It was at about this point that I decided to stop playing. I suggest you do the same.
Okay, maybe overexaggerating a bit, but that really is what looks like to be going on. This isn't putting the character in a situation where some creative thinking might be necessary to escape from- it's forcing the character do do something for the personal gratification of the sub-DM, and as an extent, forcing the player to partake in such a situation. Even with just the information in the op, the feel I'm getting is that the sub-DM isn't doing his job as a DM even remotely, here, but is abusing his authority to pull one over the player.
And that sort of thing is wrong, and if, via the sub-DM, the universe seems conspiring to put your character into this position... then you need to leave, or talk to your real DM, or worst comes to worse, make your point, however harshly, to the sub-DM. I'm not a violent man, usually, but I've had this situation happen to me, and tell you me, but I took great pleasure in grinding the little **** behind it into a fine meat paste.
Not literally, of course- it involved excessive verbal sparring, garnering the support of the rest of the playgroup, and a single act of violence, when I, deciding that my character would prefer death to such a thing, ripped up my character sheet, stuck it in my mouth, chewed it into a spit wad, and spat it in the offending party's face.
But I'm not suggesting you do anything remotely like that, no matter how satisfying, because without adequate playgroup support, you'll never live the situation down, and it'll wreck your relationship with the little ****.
I would take this person to the side, and have a one-on-one discussion as to what the heck is going on.
Irrelevant. If the PLAYER is going to be bothered or offended or disgusted by what's going on, you simply don't do it. If the PC is going to be bothered, but the PLAYER is fine with it, that's one thing. The OP states clearly that the PLAYER is bothered by this.
It should not happen. EVER.
Seconded
With the dm wanting to impose some sort of sexual thing on the pc. It gives the creepy feeling the dm would like impose himself on the player.
Is he screwing with the other PCs as well, or just you?
The first thing I would do is ask the primary DM to guarantee that any ill effects will be removed when they come back. even f you can only do it over e-mail.
Maybe just me. Although to be fair, every male character in the party has been publically humiliated by a female NPC. Except the SDMPC. (Although why everyone in a tavern in Celestia would point and laugh at my character's misfortune is beyond me.)
Also, my regular DM makes himself hard to find, and I don't know his e-mail address.
@Kerrus: As for the whole "rest of the group" thing, they're not with me on this. I find this to be bad.
@Salla: DM Squicking? What's this? The only definition I know for squick is air pinching someone from a far distance, causing them to fall unconscious or die.
@Entropy Judge: (Mind if I call you S Judge? S being the symbol for entropy in equations?) Not entirely possible, as the sub-DM's hopefully non-canon story arc has currently placed us smack dab in the middle of Bahamut Land, which is appropriately made of platinum, and the NPC I refer to accompanied our party on a quest to destroy an evil commander of undead hordes attacking a city that I still don't know the name of.
@Oct. Dark.: I recently found out that no word exists in the English language that is the male equivalent of "misogyny". Isn't that interesting? Also: That was the first thing I tried. Didn't work, obviously.
I might have to pull out the Magnum: the other two real DMs. My full group is so large, we divided into three parties based on alignment (Good, Neutral/Unaligned to which I belong, and Evil.) I have much closer ties to the Good and Evil DMs than I do with my own.
We also seem to be staying in inns with numbered rooms a lot. I figure I could ask the bookkeeper if I could have a room change. Of course, he'd probably just say "All the other rooms are booked".
@Oct. Dark.: I recently found out that no word exists in the English language that is the male equivalent of "misogyny". Isn't that interesting?
Misandry
@Salla: DM Squicking? What's this?
I linked to the definition of "Squick" above.
Maybe just me. Although to be fair, every male character in the party has been publically humiliated by a female NPC. Except the SDMPC. (Although why everyone in a tavern in Celestia would point and laugh at my character's misfortune is beyond me.)
Then the Sadistic Dumb Manager has issues and/or is on a power trip. And you wouldn't be in Celestia if that's the case, because those guys aren't dicks. It's the home of Lawful Good beautiful perfect people.
@Entropy Judge: (Mind if I call you S Judge? S being the symbol for entropy in equations?) Not entirely possible, as the sub-DM's hopefully non-canon story arc has currently placed us smack dab in the middle of Bahamut Land, which is appropriately made of platinum, and the NPC I refer to accompanied our party on a quest to destroy an evil commander of undead hordes attacking a city that I still don't know the name of.
Suicide, after making sure the DM in question knows that your character worships a deity that doesn't reside in one of the celestial planes? And what the hell is a LG critter doing trying to make the beast with two backs anyway? Rhetorical question, I know. I don't suppose the SDM would be willing to explain its reasoning behind ... well, anything? Either to you, vis-a-vis and one-on-one, or to us, the faceless hordes who've heard nothing but what you've told us?
I might have to pull out the Magnum: the other two real DMs. My full group is so large, we divided into three parties based on alignment (Good, Neutral/Unaligned to which I belong, and Evil.) I have much closer ties to the Good and Evil DMs than I do with my own.
My above suggestion might work if you bring your issues to one of the other DMs and ask them to talk to the SDM to find out what's going on. Failing that, Alignment shift to either marshmallows and light or Belkar-level douchebaggery ought to solve your problem, assuming the SDM doesn't stalk you.
We also seem to be staying in inns with numbered rooms a lot. I figure I could ask the bookkeeper if I could have a room change. Of course, he'd probably just say "All the other rooms are booked".
Maybe the SDM is just lazy? And yeah, you probably would.
Part of my problem was that I was so new to roleplaying, and I the rest of the group thought it was funny. I was the new guy, and I did not want to cause trouble. When I got more comfortable with roleplaying, I tried to put a stop to it, and nothing worked. Eventually I just left. You have a better situation in that the Sub DM will eventually have to leave, but the lack of support from your fellow players is disturbing.
This sort of thing used to happen to me all the time. It was the same DM, over and over, even after I had explained that I personally was uncomfortable with the situation. It kept happening, and it was a major factor in me leaving the campaign. It was a shame, because it was also the group that introduced me to D&D.
Part of my problem was that I was so new to roleplaying, and I the rest of the group thought it was funny. I was the new guy, and I did not want to cause trouble. When I got more comfortable with roleplaying, I tried to put a stop to it, and nothing worked. Eventually I just left. You have a better situation in that the Sub DM will eventually have to leave, but the lack of support from your fellow players is disturbing.
^^^ Dude's got a point. The weirdo that's bothering you is only there temporarily. Either take some "time off", or just sweat it out and confront the situation when it happens.
But seriously, he's being a jerk and needs to stop. Forcing a PC to do something the player doesn't want without real game mechanics to back it up is a power play by a desperate person.
IMHO, even WITH game mechanics to back it up, it's a really bad idea.
Irrelevant. If the PLAYER is going to be bothered or offended or disgusted by what's going on, you simply don't do it.
Yeah, i'm personally bothered that as a Player, I have to fight things to get their loot, which should be handed to my PC, with little to no effort. So just say "Yes" to players that want loot handed over.
Simply don't set up combat encounters.
Yeah, i'm personally bothered that as a Player, I have to fight things to get their loot, which should be handed to my PC, with little to no effort. So just say "Yes" to players that want loot handed over.
Simply don't set up combat encounters.
You have no idea what you're talking about. As usual.
But even experienced DMs can make this mistake now and again. I'm certainly guilty of it.) You should perhaps have the regular DM talk to him, find out what his plans are, outside the group, and perhaps he'll have advice on the situation.
If however this guy (or girl) is just being an ass, remove yourself from play until your regular DM gets back into the seat, and of course be sure to urge them to do so at the earliest point. ;)
Yeah, i'm personally bothered that as a Player, I have to fight things to get their loot, which should be handed to my PC, with little to no effort. So just say "Yes" to players that want loot handed over.
Simply don't set up combat encounters.
The situation described goes far beyond the bounds of normal, reasonable challenges into the realm of things the people Should Not Do. This breaks the implicit Social Contract that all groups have that states "I will not force my friends to violate their ethics or morals for my own gratification." Not the characters, mind you. The player. The physical person sitting in the same room. Consider that before flinging your flippant poo all over the place.
Back to the subject....
To play Devil's Advocate for the villified DM, I'm afraid the poster hasn't really given enough information to determine if there is a breach of DM conduct here.
As others have mentioned, is there a magical compulsion involved? Is the PC unconcious or otherwise helpless? Is a friend being used as hostage to force compliance?
Also, it was only written that the "character will be in a situation that I absolutely do not want." Isn't that the DM's job? I don't think too many characters would want to be on a collapsing bridge while being attacked by enemies on both sides either. Has the DM announced that he expects the PC to behave a certain way, or is he merely explaining that this is the circumstance that the PC will find himself in? The former is a legitimate issue of not being allowed to play one's character as desired. The latter is simply setting the stage which is, in fact, the function of the DM.
While I disagree with the part about "magical compulsion" excusing bad DM behavior, I'm behind the rest of this post. A situation you "DO. NOT. WANT." sounds pretty bad, but I've been on these boards too long to take things like that at face value. I don't know this particular poster, and I suspect that he is PROBABLY not exaggerating (especially given his description of the GMs mysandrist behavior). However, I will not pass judgment or give advice based on a situation described to me solely through hinting and innuendo.
Anything else, to me, seems like "let's bash the DM this guy is reporting on, without hearing the DM's side of it."
Plus the obvious side convo of "I don't want my PC to die, Evah."
DO WE, as DMs bow to that?
Salla: "As Usual?" Where is this coming from? Bruised ego?
Obviously the player can walk.
Anything else, to me, seems like "let's bash the DM this guy is reporting on, without hearing the DM's side of it."
That's the nature of these debates. It rare that both sides join the argument. In fact, it's generally impossible without confronting the other party first.
Plus the obvious side convo of "I don't want my PC to die, Evah."
Are you sure you are in the right thread?
Nothing even remotely like that has been suggested by the OP.
This is not about dying, but about dignity. And not of the PC, but the player.
Obviously the player can walk.
Anything else, to me, seems like "let's bash the DM this guy is reporting on, without hearing the DM's side of it."
Plus the obvious side convo of "I don't want my PC to die, Evah."
DO WE, as DMs bow to that?
Salla: "As Usual?" Where is this coming from? Bruised ego?
More often then not, when I see posts by you its about dms making the game more challenging for pcs/complaining about pcs who want the game to be made easier...usually done so in a clearly outrageous situation, for example...a player who doesn't want to roleplay out a sexual act they were rail roaded into being related to just giving pcs loot because they don't like the act of fighting monsters. Obviously, such a situation is never going to even occur anyway nor was anyone suggesting it.
I do agree with you on some points about challenge, I don't fudge rolls with my players or pull punches...I don't think they deserve to just be handed stuff or automatically start as heroes, so I'm not saying this because of a "bruised ego" type of deal or anything.
Obviously the player can walk.
Anything else, to me, seems like "let's bash the DM this guy is reporting on, without hearing the DM's side of it."
Plus the obvious side convo of "I don't want my PC to die, Evah."
DO WE, as DMs bow to that?
Salla: "As Usual?" Where is this coming from? Bruised ego?
You fail at reading between the lines, and at interpreting context. Nothing like any of this has been remotely suggested by anybody.
Epic fail.
DO WE, as DMs bow to that?
*Looks at Board Title*
Uh, this is the Player's board, right?