I've recently been kicked from my D&D group. I can see the reasoning behind the decision to stop inviting me, as I was a bad player and can see that now, as well as some out of character problems as well. However I have learned from my mistakes and now I want them to give me another chance to prove that I can be a good person to play with. There are no other groups I can find in my area. I have tried speaking to one person about it and they said they would see what they could do but I haven't heard back from them, one person isn't speaking to me and the other 3 people including the DM are very difficult to get hold of. I really miss playing and want to show I am a reformed character LOL. If you'd stopped someone from coming to your D&D sessions, what would change your mind? Any advice on how I can make them let me play again? Thankyou
That would depend on the offense. Just what did you do?
I was directed to the 'problem players' section of the DM's guide, though it didn't mean anything at the time looking back I was probably an 'out of control player', and a 'prima donna'. Also in talking to friends about it they have said that some of my out of character behaviour may have come across as spoilt - that is where the OC argument came from (as well as things like not helping to tidy up). The IC tipping point was when I got all the other characters killed as I sided with the Big Bad and betrayed them; then my character was killed, meaning that the campaign ended with the worst of all possible outcomes. There was also some controversy over whether or not some of my actions constituted cheating; again with hindsight, they sort of did.
Personally, I don't think the others have dealt with the situation that well, but I recognise I contributed to this as well. I anticipate that some people will say that I am clearly not suited to this style of play and should try another group, however I can't find another group and consider(ed) these people to be my friends, and seeing the consequences of my rather selfish actions, I'd now like to try and play it their way and learn from my admittedly rather abysmal behaviour.
Basically, it's rooted in the fact I wanted to play chaotic evil villain when all the other players and DM were interested in a heroic campaign; I was warned that this wouldn't be the best choice, but decided to go for it anyway, which meant that a lot of time was taken up with arguments and stuff. I found it fun, but it probably wasn't like that for everybody, and it did disrupt the story, but I didn't mind because it was distrupting it in my favour, and against everyone else.
I was directed to the 'problem players' section of the DM's guide, though it didn't mean anything at the time looking back I was probably an 'out of control player', and a 'prima donna'. Also in talking to friends about it they have said that some of my out of character behaviour may have come across as spoilt - that is where the OC argument came from (as well as things like not helping to tidy up). The IC tipping point was when I got all the other characters killed as I sided with the Big Bad and betrayed them; then my character was killed, meaning that the campaign ended with the worst of all possible outcomes. There was also some controversy over whether or not some of my actions constituted cheating; again with hindsight, they sort of did.
Personally, I don't think the others have dealt with the situation that well, but I recognise I contributed to this as well. I anticipate that some people will say that I am clearly not suited to this style of play and should try another group, however I can't find another group and consider(ed) these people to be my friends, and seeing the consequences of my rather selfish actions, I'd now like to try and play it their way and learn from my admittedly rather abysmal behaviour.
//Steps up on his soapbox//
This is why it if very important to establish the common set of goals for the time spend playing the game. If the game is being played as heroic high fantasy and the players all want it that way except one player, then that one player should not be allowed to play a devious backstabbing low fantasy anti-hero because this is what typically results. If one of the goals is to not blow large portions of game time arguing about rules interpretations, then this also should not happen.
Unfortunately too many players insist they any chaos they desire to unleash on a game should be permitted in the name of "Character Concept", "Freedom from Railroading", and what they find "fun". Also they insist that since they are a player, then the party has no recourse but to accept them no matter how agregious their behaivor.
I'm all for characters being interesting, and even accept edgy characters. However, I will not as a DM permit one player to interfere with the fun of all the other players to obtain their own fun.
//steps off soapbox//
As to your problem, you have more than gotten the characters killed of a bunch of people with which you played. You have successfully alienated enough players that they don't want you around because you ruin their fun. That is not a good position from which to start begging forgiveness.
The other problem is that you were given plently of opportunity from the DM and seemingly the other players to see this train wreck of a gaming group happen and to prevent it. You chose instead to grease the rails, and help the wreck along being amused to watch the dismay of your friends. This is why they booted you out of their game. Not because of a chaotic evil character or characters who died, but because you didn't care if you spoiled the game for them.
The only point that you cared is when an unforseen circumstance of not being able to keep playing actually impacted you personally. Personally if I were your DM, I would be tempted to apply a restriction of having you play a long eared, pink armored, half-elf, good paladin named "Bunny", but I'm pretty sure you could derail a party from any character you play.
Your solution going forward is to start giving a crap about everyone having fun in a game instead of just yourself. It's quite possible you've burned one bridge too many with this group, and you may just have to self-reflect for a while to figure out what you could have handled better in this situation.
There are plenty of other ways to play D&D or even other games if the doors of this group are closed to you. Start checking some of the forums here which have some good threads with suggestions for finding new groups. Also endeavor to understand the the game is intended to be for the fun of all, not just your own amusement.
I hope this helps.
Basically, it's rooted in the fact I wanted to play chaotic evil villain when all the other players and DM were interested in a heroic campaign; I was warned that this wouldn't be the best choice, but decided to go for it anyway, which meant that a lot of time was taken up with arguments and stuff. I found it fun, but it probably wasn't like that for everybody, and it did disrupt the story, but I didn't mind because it was distrupting it in my favour, and against everyone else.
I was directed to the 'problem players' section of the DM's guide, though it didn't mean anything at the time looking back I was probably an 'out of control player', and a 'prima donna'. Also in talking to friends about it they have said that some of my out of character behaviour may have come across as spoilt - that is where the OC argument came from (as well as things like not helping to tidy up). The IC tipping point was when I got all the other characters killed as I sided with the Big Bad and betrayed them; then my character was killed, meaning that the campaign ended with the worst of all possible outcomes. There was also some controversy over whether or not some of my actions constituted cheating; again with hindsight, they sort of did.
Personally, I don't think the others have dealt with the situation that well, but I recognise I contributed to this as well. I anticipate that some people will say that I am clearly not suited to this style of play and should try another group, however I can't find another group and consider(ed) these people to be my friends, and seeing the consequences of my rather selfish actions, I'd now like to try and play it their way and learn from my admittedly rather abysmal behaviour.
One of my basic gaming philosophies is that while every player has the “right” to play the character of their choice they also have an “obligation” to ensure that their gaming experience does not detract from anyone else’s enjoyment. And it seems to me that your character choice did not live up to this philosophy. (I am not criticizing your choice, just making an observation.) But, it appears that you have learned from your mistakes and are interested in making amends. Do you have the e-mail of everyone in the group? If so then send an e-mail out to everyone. In that e-mail lay out, in detail, the mistakes that you made. Then explain to them that you would like another chance to join up with them again. If they accept it then all is well and good. If not, well, unfortunately there is not much you can do about that. You cannot force them to play with you. If they say no you just to have to suck it up and deal with it. And you can deal with it by not playing or by trying to start a new group.
Are you female in real life?
If so, then you must have done something super horrible, to get kicked from a game.
Mock26 - thank you for your suggestion. Unfortunately I don't have their email addresses, but Facebook is my friend here, I guess. Hopefully they'll read me out...I guess i'll have to swallow my pride.
zmortis - thank you for pointing out my mistakes. This will help when I am writing the email. I do realise I behaved pretty apallingly, that's why I'm posting here to try and find a way to rectify the situation. A few weeks ago, I would never have admitted to the things I have in my two previous posts. Honestly, I would play a pacifist cleric named Ms Goodlypants if it meant I got my friends and my hobby back. I am trying to learn from my mistakes, but unless I get another chance, I can't exactly see how successful I'm being. If it doesn't work out, I will also follow up your suggestion regarding new groups.
RyndarLocke - Yes, I'm female - from a group which has 3 female and 2 male regulars, plus another girl and two guys who come along occasionally. So statistically speaking it's slightly more likely for a girl to get kicked than a guy in my group, all things being equal. I've said what happened, you judge if it's 'super horrible'.
Mock26 - thank you for your suggestion. Unfortunately I don't have their email addresses, but Facebook is my friend here, I guess. Hopefully they'll read me out...I guess i'll have to swallow my pride.
zmortis - thank you for pointing out my mistakes. This will help when I am writing the email. I do realise I behaved pretty apallingly, that's why I'm posting here to try and find a way to rectify the situation. A few weeks ago, I would never have admitted to the things I have in my two previous posts. Honestly, I would play a pacifist cleric named Ms Goodlypants if it meant I got my friends and my hobby back. I am trying to learn from my mistakes, but unless I get another chance, I can't exactly see how successful I'm being. If it doesn't work out, I will also follow up your suggestion regarding new groups.
Then I need to ask in oder to help, are you primarily a WoD player? Do you have issue's with any of the other girls out of the game? Is the DM and another player in a relationship and possibly feel threatened.
I honestly can't imagine they'd boot you before telling you to knock it off and play a new character without some other reason.
They did warn me - showed me the 'problem players' page, the DM offered to help me develop a new character, but I didn't take the hint and refused to change. They then started doing things like taking my magic items and give them back to me for good behaviour. Honestly, they made their dissatisfaction known, just not in as many words. Then, after I completely ruined the campaign, I stopped getting told about the sessions, when I asked someone I was told they didn't want me to play with them any more. I repeat, I don't think the group handled it great, but equally I know that this situation is like, 90% my fault, 10% theirs, and I doubt they'd appreciate me going 'yeah, please forgive me...by the way you screwed up too'. Not really a recipe for me getting accepted back into the fold.
The fact that they directed you to the problem player section, rather than just cutting you out, was pretty straight up.
I think you should just let it cool down for a while. Once they've had a few fun games, they'll be more forgiving too. Don't bug them. Leave it be for a while then ask for another chance. Don't make them feel like you haven't learnt your lesson.
Hope this helps!
Thedarklady, I agree with Mock26. You've clearly damaged your relationship with the group, potentially irreparably, so you need to be able to deal with the consequences of that. But it's worth seeing if you can build bridges with that FB message or whatever. Maybe even write a letter and ask the girl who you seem to have not alienated completely to take it to the group. If they do let you back, be aware you've got A LOT of ground to make up; if not, accept that this group is a lost cause and try to move on. Good luck with the apology.
Mock26 - thank you for your suggestion. Unfortunately I don't have their email addresses, but Facebook is my friend here, I guess. Hopefully they'll read me out...I guess i'll have to swallow my pride.
My pleasure. I only hope that my advice helps.
I would also suggest that you try to get in touch again with the one player that you did talk to and point them in the direction of this thread and ask that they tell the others in the group, too. It might help them see that you are contrite and seeking to make ammends and are trying to change your ways.
My suggestion would be to try really, really hard to get in touch with the DM. Take him/her out for coffee, and sort of lay out what you have laid out here. Underscore the fact that you understand where you were wrong, and that the time off has really given you the opportunity to understand what you lost by being kicked out, and explain how you are wanting to change the previous 'unacceptable' behaviour. Be specific here, would be my advice... take a previous uncool action and say WHY it was uncool... don't try to defend your thought process, just eat the crow.
If you can get the DM on your side about a second chance, you stand a much better chance of getting through to the rest of the group.
If you GET that second chance, try hard to fit into the current group concept. Get the help of the other players in creating a character that you want to play, and that they feel fits their idea of a useful party member. This may mean you DO play Ms. Goodlypants the Pacifist Healer... I hope you were serious about that.
I'm not going to beat you with the wet noodle over this... you obviously know that you created the situation on your own.
My suggestion would be to try really, really hard to get in touch with the DM. Take him/her out for coffee, and sort of lay out what you have laid out here. Underscore the fact that you understand where you were wrong, and that the time off has really given you the opportunity to understand what you lost by being kicked out, and explain how you are wanting to change the previous 'unacceptable' behaviour. Be specific here, would be my advice... take a previous uncool action and say WHY it was uncool... don't try to defend your thought process, just eat the crow.
If you can get the DM on your side about a second chance, you stand a much better chance of getting through to the rest of the group.
If you GET that second chance, try hard to fit into the current group concept. Get the help of the other players in creating a character that you want to play, and that they feel fits their idea of a useful party member. This may mean you DO play Ms. Goodlypants the Pacifist Healer... I hope you were serious about that.
In support of this excellent post, minor bribery might help, too! If you can get the DM to go out for coffee or lunch the simple gesture of paying for their coffee or lunch might soften their mood towards you. Of course, keep it small! Do not buy them gifts or anything like that. Just offer to pay for their coffee/lunch. And be prepared to have them decline your offer. Even if they decline, though, the offer might help your case.
If you want to fix this send them all an email admitting you were a jerk, accept full responsibility for your actions and commit to not acting like a jerk again. Apologize, say you'd like to give it another try, and hope for the best.
I don't know what WoD means, so probably not - we play 4E. Our DM isn't in a relationship or interested in anyone in the group, though the other guy is in a relationship with another female player. One of the girls (the single one) isn't speaking to me, but we were friends before I got kicked.
They did warn me - showed me the 'problem players' page, the DM offered to help me develop a new character, but I didn't take the hint and refused to change. They then started doing things like taking my magic items and give them back to me for good behaviour. Honestly, they made their dissatisfaction known, just not in as many words. Then, after I completely ruined the campaign, I stopped getting told about the sessions, when I asked someone I was told they didn't want me to play with them any more. I repeat, I don't think the group handled it great, but equally I know that this situation is like, 90% my fault, 10% theirs, and I doubt they'd appreciate me going 'yeah, please forgive me...by the way you screwed up too'. Not really a recipe for me getting accepted back into the fold.
I have to say it's 100% your fault. As soon as you realize this, I think you'll have a better idea how to approach them to not completely ruin all friendships with them.
I'm sorry you got kicked, but they did give you chances it seems. Both OOC and IC.
Good luck and keep us up to date
However, it is not fair game to consider working against party goals "all in good fun" when the rest of the players don't think so. A person only has to be on the wrong side of playing a serious team based FPS when a team killer comes along to discover how utterly annoying this kind of activity can be. While I am sure the team killer is having the time of their lives, the rest of the people usually just abandon the server to leave them to their devices if they don't have the admin authority to kick a player.
The only question for thedarklady to resolve at this point is whether this was a "perma ban" or a little break away to let her reflect on her actions. This also gets down to saying the player needs to understand their play style, and find a group with a compatible style of play. If you like low fantasy anti-hero action, then a group of low fantasy anti-hero players will more likely suit your needs. If you prefer high fantasy heroic action, then a group of high fantasy hero players will be best. If you like tactical combat resolution, then a more roll play oriented group will suit you fine. If you like having a five minute dialog in character trying to get a merchant to drop the price on a rope, then a more role play oriented group would likely suit you better.
This is a classic example of having a player whose play style is not a good fit for a particular group. I would point it out that while thedarklady made a mistake here in pushing her play style into a group that wasn't prepared to accept it, the is nothing inherently wrong with the style of play itself. It simply has to be a style that everyone agrees to playing. Just like for those people in a FPS that want to shoot anything that moves, there is a style known as deathmatch to accomodate your desires. There is no need to go play a team match and kill your teammates. That is just lining up a bunch of ducks in a barrel and shooting them.
The same goes for a player actively undermining a group of players with good characters who are restricted from responding in kind based on their character concept/alignment. You've simply lined yourself up to shoot a bunch of lame ducks. It's not very challenging or sporting when they are not actively working against you in turn.
I hope this helps.
I would be flabbergasted if he were to admit what you did in this thread. The actions you described are not bad, if the party accepts them. Evil campaigns are one thing, but evil characters that act at the detriment of the rest of the party are a thorn in any campaigns side, and the fact that you actually are willing to acknowledge it is rather refreshing. If my groups troubled player were to sincerely repent in the manner that you have here, I would tend to think that we would be more than willing to offer a second chance.
The biggest hurdle is getting the others to listen to you, and simply pointing out that you understand what the problems were, and why they were an issue. The most annoying thing about problem players like this, is their refusal to see it as a problem.
Maybe I am wrong but even when you are posting you don't really sound sincere in your apology. First of all you aren't accepting sole responsibility for the problem. Secondly you say that some of these people are your friends and yet you seem to care more about getting back into the game then getting back into their good graces.
If you were friends with any of these people before and are having trouble with them now then I would suggest that you give up on weaseling your way back into the game and focus on saving your friendships.
Personally, in regards to apologizing to the other players, I'd wait until the day of the game because, to me at least, doing so in a long, drawn out email won't go over well, or at least thats my instinct. For the other players, this problem has already been solved and they've moved on, so getting a non-face to face plea from you at this point just doesn't seem like a winning strategy. I say this mainly since, at that point its up to the DM to tell the players his decision to let you back into the game, since it's his game.
Anyway, its easier to stay mad reading an apology than someone saying they're sorry in person, IMO... but I could see an argument against this suggestion.
Good luck.
...at that point its up to the DM to tell the players his decision to let you back into the game, since it's his game.
False. It's not his game, it's their game. The whole group bailed on her, and the whole group should have to be willing to let her back in.
...at that point its up to the DM to tell the players his decision to let you back into the game, since it's his game.False. It's not his game, it's their game. The whole group bailed on her, and the whole group should have to be willing to let her back in.
False. It's the DMs rules, the DMs world, the DMs work. The players are in the DMs game. They help provide some twists and turns, but PCs are variables in the story. Its why new players can't be added to a game if the DM doesn't want anymore in.
But the reality is the only thing false is the idea that your opinion is more valid than mine. This isn't gravity or light, there isn't a factual way to prove it one way or the other... so quit being an arrogant ****.
...at that point its up to the DM to tell the players his decision to let you back into the game, since it's his game.False. It's not his game, it's their game. The whole group bailed on her, and the whole group should have to be willing to let her back in.
False. It's the DMs rules, the DMs world, the DMs work. The players are in the DMs game. They help provide some twists and turns, but PCs are variables in the story. Its why new players can't be added to a game if the DM doesn't want anymore in.
But the reality is the only thing false is the idea that your opinion is more valid than mine. This isn't gravity or light, there isn't a factual way to prove it one way or the other... so quit being an arrogant ****.
You're wrong. It's not the DM's game it IS everyones. The players trust the DM to not be a idiot. The DM would have no game if his player's left. He could find himself alone like the OP.
...at that point its up to the DM to tell the players his decision to let you back into the game, since it's his game.
False. It's not his game, it's their game. The whole group bailed on her, and the whole group should have to be willing to let her back in.
False. It's the DMs rules, the DMs world, the DMs work. The players are in the DMs game. They help provide some twists and turns, but PCs are variables in the story. Its why new players can't be added to a game if the DM doesn't want anymore in.
But the reality is the only thing false is the idea that your opinion is more valid than mine. This isn't gravity or light, there isn't a factual way to prove it one way or the other... so quit being an arrogant ****.
Sometimes an apology is also much easier face to face, and one on one rather than in front of a whole group where the others don't have to reject her individually. I am not a fan of the mass e-mail approach to apology as it comes across as very impersonal, but I can't conclusively say it woudn't work in her case.
Also as far as the friend who wasn't (and possibly still isn't) speaking to her. I think they are taking a constructive approach to managing the situation in the short term. Sometimes a temporary lack of communication is better than saying something so damaging it can't be repaired. However, if it persists after they have had a chance to cool down, then it may well be that no apology can remedy the situation.
Then as Ravenath says the apology is only for TheDarkLady so that she knows she has done the right thing to attempt rectifing the situation to the best of her ability. If she has to walk away after that, at least she knows she gave it a shot.
I hope this helps.
Good luck.
It's irrelevant anyway, spoke to the DM and he basically said that he wasn't comfortable having me back to D&D and that his feeling was reflective of the group as a whole. Really bummed about that. But he also said that he'd keep me in mind and would let me know if it was ever appropriate for me to return.
Sent an email to the girl who wasn't speaking to me and she has started warming up. Dunno if she'll ever be happy to role play with me again, but at least the friendship stands a chance of being repaired.
Ambivalent times.