While playing in our regular 4e session last night............
Our party was trying to get some information from a Hobgoblin who was in the stockades. He was under fire from towns people throwing tomatoes at him. My character, a 1st level halfling ranger, was attempting to gain his trust, and decided to wipe the mess off his face. While our party was talking with the prisoner, noone attempted to throw anything.
We managed to get the info we needed from him, in exchange to have him moved from the stockades to a regular cell. As the party went to secure his transfer, my character stayed behind to further gain his trust. Without warning, a tomatoe goes over my halflings head and smashes into the face of the hobgoblin. My character feeling provoked, picked up the tomatoe and returned it to sender. In doing so, the 6 level 4 guards attempted to put my halfling under arrest. I managed to escape the grapple of the 1st guard, but the others quickly drew weapons and surrounded me. Never, did my halfling draw a weapon or strike a guard.
I was simply trying to escape, trying to make it to my friends and the warden. I was asked by the guards to put on the manacles and allow myself to be arrested. However, I had another plan. Before I could flee, I was tripped 2x and beaten to death
by 6 guards wielding staffs. The "DM" stated that there was no non-lethal damage 
according to the new book. I felt as if maybe I should have been beaten unconscious, but not beaten to death. And, I know what you're thinking. Why didn't my halfling just allow himself to be arrested and save himself from death. Well, I was "playing" my character and trying to do what he would have felt was right. Maybe you think the hobgoblin didn't deserve to be defended. Well, my halfling felt that it was his duty, and he was trying to gain some trust. Why wasn't anybody throwing tomatoes when the whole party was there?
So, there's my story about how I died before getting to go on any adventures. I would really love to hear some input and thoughts on this, provided I didn't bore the crap out of you with such a long story. :P
I don't think you did anything wrong, you were just playing your part.
Your DM might be a bit inexperienced, or wary of adjudicating stuff without it being written in a book. Fortunately, your situation is covered on page 295 of the PHB:
[INDENT]Knocking Creatures
Unconscious
When you reduce a creature to 0 hit points or fewer, you
can choose to knock it unconscious rather than kill it.
Until it regains hit points, the creature is unconscious but
not dying. Any healing makes the creature conscious.
If the creature doesn’t receive any healing, it is
restored to 1 hit point and becomes conscious after a
short rest.[/INDENT]
Show it to your DM, but don't be too hard on him. He's learning this too.
Roll a new character that is your previous character's brother. Pursue a wrongful death lawsiut against the guards that killed your brother; leathal force is pushing it for someone offering no direct violence. Choose stats and skills that will make you a better in-game lawyer. Artful Dodger Rogue with maxxed charisma and skill-training in diplomacy should work. Should be worth several hundred gold at least.
Lmao. I should do this, just to try and make a quick buck!
Thanks.
Interesting story.
I don't think you did anything wrong, you were just playing your part.
Your DM might be a bit inexperienced, or wary of adjudicating stuff without it being written in a book. Fortunately, your situation is covered on page 295 of the PHB:
[INDENT]Knocking Creatures
Unconscious
When you reduce a creature to 0 hit points or fewer, you
can choose to knock it unconscious rather than kill it.
Until it regains hit points, the creature is unconscious but
not dying. Any healing makes the creature conscious.
If the creature doesn’t receive any healing, it is
restored to 1 hit point and becomes conscious after a
short rest.[/INDENT]
Show it to your DM, but don't be too hard on him. He's learning this too.
Thanks for sharing this, I plan to show it to my DM. He is actually one of my best friend's, even though we don't see eye to eye all the time as far as games go. We've been playing for over 5 yrs now, and he always goes by what the book says. He will never deviate or allow you to try something that's not written in the book. Example, I run Star Wars SE, which allows using a force point to save yourself from dying. I asked if I could use an action point to save my halfling from dying, and I was informed action points didn't work like that. Page 286 of the PHB states this on actions, which I wanted to use my action point for;
The list isn’t exhaustive—you can try to do anything
you can imagine your character doing in the game
world. The rules in this section cover the most common
actions, and they can serve as a guide for figuring out
what happens when you try something not in the rules.
But again, thanks.
Also, unless they kept beating you after you went unconscious, it's unlikely that you died by the rules. They have to either get you to your negative bloodied value, or you have to fail 3 saving throws. PCs have different dying rules than monsters. I would recommend reading the section on page 295 of the PHB thoroughly.
I was down to 2 hp's, when the last hit on me was a crit. My bloodied hp's are 11, and I was at -13 in the end without any saving throws made.
> 11, and I was at -13 in the end without any saving throws made.
I will point out that in the case of knocking someone unconscious, this wouldn't matter - you're just unconscious and back to 1 HP after a short rest.
> We've been playing for over 5 yrs now, and he always goes by what the book
> says. He will never deviate or allow you to try something that's not written in
> the book.
This is a bad, bad thing.
4E's design philosophy is that going outside of the rules is not only acceptable, but intended - the rules do give you a framework for adjudicating things when that happens (page 42), but refusing anything that isn't specifically "in the book" is constraining beyond all 4E reason.
...As the party went to secure his transfer, my character stayed behind to further gain his trust.
It takes an entire party to talk to the prison officials? And the smallest member was left alone with the most dangerous NPC encountered so far?
Perhaps the ratio should have been reversed?
> We've been playing for over 5 yrs now, and he always goes by what the book
> says. He will never deviate or allow you to try something that's not written in
> the book.
This is a bad, bad thing.
4E's design philosophy is that going outside of the rules is not only acceptable, but intended - the rules do give you a framework for adjudicating things when that happens (page 42), but refusing anything that isn't specifically "in the book" is constraining beyond all 4E reason.
I was going to say it was a newbie DM mistake, but 5 years is a long time to not figure that out. I'm amazed the game is still working. At the very least, if you're going to DM this way, you should know the book backwards and forwards.
My players would probably say I'm a very by-the-book DM, meaning if the book covers it, I almost always insist on the book's rules. On the other hand, if the book doesn't cover something, I try very hard to make it work, and my players throw something like that at me nearly every session. That's what makes it D&D. Otherwise, you may as well be playing a computer game.
I asked if I could use an action point to save my halfling from dying, and I was informed action points didn't work like that. Page 286 of the PHB states this on actions, which I wanted to use my action point for;
The list isn’t exhaustive—you can try to do anything
you can imagine your character doing in the game
world. The rules in this section cover the most common
actions, and they can serve as a guide for figuring out
what happens when you try something not in the rules.
Given that in 3.5, you could use an action point to automatically stabilize a dying character, there is no reason it can't be used in the same way here. It wouldn't have affected the game in any way, except that you wouldn't have to roll up another character.
So ... why did someone throw the tomato, any metagame reasons your DM had in mind? If I were DM'ing it, I'd have had the provocation be there specifically for your character to have something to work with to further ingratiate yourself with the hobgoblin. Heck, I might have done it because I knew your character would react that way and give the guards a reason to arrest you, so you and the hobgoblin source of info could be busted out of jail by your party (or released into the party leader's custody) - giving you perhaps a cool NPC with some sort of honor-debt to you along on the adventure.
Given that in 3.5, you could use an action point to automatically stabilize a dying character, there is no reason it can't be used in the same way here. It wouldn't have affected the game in any way, except that you wouldn't have to roll up another character.
So ... why did someone throw the tomato, any metagame reasons your DM had in mind? If I were DM'ing it, I'd have had the provocation be there specifically for your character to have something to work with to further ingratiate yourself with the hobgoblin. Heck, I might have done it because I knew your character would react that way and give the guards a reason to arrest you, so you and the hobgoblin source of info could be busted out of jail by your party (or released into the party leader's custody) - giving you perhaps a cool NPC with some sort of honor-debt to you along on the adventure.
Thanks for the input on the prior use of action points. I will make my friend very aware of this. I'm not sure what the reason for throwing the tomato was, probably because he knew how I would play my character. I will certainly ask him as to why it happened.
I like you idea of adding the NPC to the party, I wish he had thought of that.
Thanks again.
-Well, now you know, when you make a new character, not to go to THAT place again. Geeze...
Lol, yeah I won't be going back there. On a good note though, one of the guys in the party marked each guard, and stated at some point that they would each slowly disappear.
I'd make a cup of coffee, sit back, and ask your DM explain what law or social more you broke. :whatsthis
If I were DM'ing it, I'd have had the provocation be there specifically for your character to have something to work with to further ingratiate yourself with the hobgoblin. Heck, I might have done it because I knew your character would react that way and give the guards a reason to arrest you, so you and the hobgoblin source of info could be busted out of jail by your party (or released into the party leader's custody) - giving you perhaps a cool NPC with some sort of honor-debt to you along on the adventure.
Right, but you would probably have stopped short of killing a member of the party, right? The DM had plenty of opportunities to not kill the character - it's not as if the halfling drew blades and snarled, "you'll never take me alive, coppers! Nyeaagh!"
We were marching up the Crystalmists and I was enjoying getting my first taste of this wonderful game. Borg volunteered to walk point. I wanted to be sure to experience every nuance of D&D that I could. We finally got to a point where Jim, our DM, told us that we could continue up the narrow pathway, or we could head into a cavern and see where it led (it hadn't been on our map). He told us that the ledge up ahead was getting narrower and looked unstable. The party wanted to go into the cave, I wanted to play Borg as I had envisioned him; courageous and daring... and apparently stupid. Scolding the party for being afraid of a little dirt, Borg strode out boldly onto the ledge to show them that it was fine. I probably should have noticed the wince that flashed across Jim's face. He rolled the dice and the ledge crumbled beneath Borg's feet. Down he plummetted, meeting his demise somewhere between the ledge and the ground. Bounce! Bounce! Bounce!
There was an awkward silence at the table. The guys didn't want to lose the one girl in town who would play D&D with them, but any obvious tweaking of the rules might offend me lest I think they were playing it soft. (It wouldn't have. I was thinking of a million one-liners should Borg be allowed to live.)
All I could do was say "Oops!" After much laughter and Mike coming up with a random 1d6*300 (3000 foot drop, 1d6 per every ten feet), I was offered control of one of the NPC retainers, whom I swiftly named "Carl the Cautious".
So welcome to the Stillborn PC Brigade!
First, what is the allignment of the rest of the group and the city in general? This is an important question to ask your DM, because these Guards just murdered your PC in cold blood in front of a crowd of onlookers.
Is it illegal to throw tomatoes? Obviously not since the crowds were throwing them in front of the guards all day long without them even so much as batting an eye, and obviously not since the crowd threw a tomatoe at the hafling and the guards did nothing. And yet when your Hafling picks and throws a single tomato back, 6 guards take it upon themselves to arrest the hafling and shackle him?
And when the Hafling objects to this unwarrented and likely illegal arrest they procede to BEAT THE UNARMED HAFLING TO DEATH!?!!?! in front of the crowds they beat an unarmed citizen to death for the crime of throwing a tomato?
These Guards are murderers, and should be brought to justice emmediately. The price for cold blooded murder is, generally speaking, Death, and the guards should be tried and executed ofr this crime emmediately, the party should demand this, that is if the crowd itself isn't so outraged by the wantant brutality and cold blooded murder that they aren't already demanding the guards be executed, or for that matter, rioted and taken matters into their own hand.
How, in all seriousness, could 6 fourth level guards justify killing an unarmed level 1 citizen for throwing a tomato? This is an outrageous crime.
Right, but you would probably have stopped short of killing a member of the party, right? The DM had plenty of opportunities to not kill the character - it's not as if the halfling drew blades and snarled, "you'll never take me alive, coppers! Nyeaagh!"
Very true - one of the best things about 4e combat in fact is that you can simply declare that a blow that could kill instead is aimed to knock the character out. Stories about PC's being captured and even jailed can be cool, but the PC's are the stars of the story and the story comes to an end when they do.
I can't do that though, I would feel as if I had cheated and that I got my way because I threw a tantrum. So, I will continue playing the warlock I rolled up and wait to have my halfling rez'd.
I want to thank everyone for listening and for offering their
.There were just too many good posts to give props individually.
So, there's my story about how I died before getting to go on any adventures. I would really love to hear some input and thoughts on this, provided I didn't bore the crap out of you with such a long story. :P
1st, the setting you are playing in isn't the present day world that is PC. Going against the authority of the day could result in DEATH. That's the way the world used to work.
2nd, there is no saving throw vs. stupidity.
Could have been worse, you could have been playing trveller and had your character die before you were even finished rolling him up.
That's funny as that's the 1st thing I thought of when I started reading the OPs post.
I don't think most of the new RPGers have the fortitude needed to play those older RPGs.
The boards would be filled with crocodile tears and the servers would short out.
He couldn't understand why I didn't want to play.
That's funny as that's the 1st thing I thought of when I started reading the OPs post.
I don't think most of the new RPGers have the masochist streak needed to play those older RPGs.
The boards would be filled with crocodile tears and the servers would short out.
Fixed. :D
Fixed. :D
D&D, it's not for whiners.
Fixed. ;)
D&D, it's not for whiners.
Fixed. ;)
Hehe. If you knew me, you'd know I wasn't whining. It might have seemed like it from the post, but as a long time gamer I value the input and advice of fellow gamers. Don't get me wrong, I've lost many characters to stupidity and laughed my ass off about it too. But this time was different, new rules new game, it felt like I lost a child before it had the chance to mature and grow old.
I can't do that though, I would feel as if I had cheated and that I got my way because I threw a tantrum. So, I will continue playing the warlock I rolled up and wait to have my halfling rez'd.
I dunno - your Halfling might not have thought about it that way - he might be saying of the DM, "OMG - that sucker fell for it! Now that I'm back, I'm gonna break the Hobby out of jail and get him to take us to the dungeon for a share of the loot!" :D
Hehe. If you knew me, you'd know I wasn't whining. It might have seemed like it from the post, but as a long time gamer I value the input and advice of fellow gamers. Don't get me wrong, I've lost many characters to stupidity and laughed my ass off about it too. But this time was different, new rules new game, it felt like I lost a child before it had the chance to mature and grow old.
I don't know. A lone little guy going against a bunch of guards that have the law on their side. You probably would have been in deep trouble in any game I've played in.
Thruk (a hobo name? I dunno)
Hobgoblin 'whatever racial stats' (this isn't why you play him).
Fighter or Paladin (or Barbarian?)
Background: Trussed up in the stockades for the mockery of the weak human village, Thruk awaited his daily ridicule and execution for commiting _____. He watched with rage in his heart as they gathered each day to pelt him with rotten fruit and cruel words. True, they were his enemy and visa versa, but this was degredation. He wasn't given the status of even a slave, to do work and serve those who had captured him. Then the halfling came. A tiny man Thruk could probably crush with a misplaced step. He waited for the creature to pelt him, but instead he wiped Thruk's face clean. They spoke, Thruk and the pint-sized man. He began to trust the halfling, who had stopped the crowds insults and vegetables.
Then one of the pathetic humans threw another fruit. Instead of letting it hit, the halfling caught it and threw it right back. Thruk had been defended by a mouse of a man. Then, to his horror, the guards came to arrest the halfling, to make him less than a slave like Thruk was. The halfling ran for it and Thruk silently urged him on. But halflings have small legs and the guards had large ones. THWACK THWACK THWACK sounded the staves against the crumpled body. SCHLRK SCHLRK SCHLRK sounded the bloody pulpy halfling. They stopped beating him with the halfling stopped moving.
Background Option 1
Thruk was filled with rage. The little mouse-man had protected and cleaned him. They were friends! Thruk strained against the stockade. Two of the guards began to drag the halfling's body away. Metal bolts screached against the wood. Thruk was breaking through! The heartless, wicked people stood nearby, gasping in horror. Thruk strove harder, the guards approached. NEEErrrr-CRACK! He was free. Thruk grasped the broken stockade and swung, cracking the nearest guard upside the head and bowling him over. He ran, barreling shoulder first into the guards dragging the halfling. He snatched the little man's body and escaped out the city gates and hid.
The halfling's party found him later. Instead of finding the mutilated body, they caught Thruk in the open, burying him with a crudely fashioned headstone. Thruk begged them to let him come with them, to serve them as the halfling had served them. They relented and Thruk the hobgoblin became a steadfast defender of the halfling's allies, with a special place in his heart for all little creatures.
Thruk was filled with rage. The little mouse-man had protected and cleaned him. They were friends! Thruk strained against the stockade. Two of the guards began to drag the halfling's body away. Metal bolts screached against the wood. Thruk was breaking through! The heartless, wicked people stood nearby, gasping in horror. Thruk strove harder, the guards approached. NEEErrrr-CRACK! He was free. Thruk grasped the broken stockade and swung, cracking the nearest guard upside the head and bowling him over. He ran, barreling shoulder first into the guards dragging the halfling. He snatched the little man's body and escaped out the city gates and hid.
The halfling's party found him later. Instead of finding the mutilated body, they caught Thruk in the open, burying him with a crudely fashioned headstone. Thruk begged them to let him come with them, to serve them as the halfling had served them. They relented and Thruk the hobgoblin became a steadfast defender of the halfling's allies, with a special place in his heart for all little creatures.
While I wouldn't have I wouldn't have had them kill you I can see the DM's reasoning.
You said you were simply trying to escape... so you're trying to escape from the law and they over-reacted. It happens in the real world I can certainly see it happening in a fantasy game, the guards are probably dullards. Maybe they didn't mean to kill you but they did. Like others I'd be curious as to how the rest of the party reacted.
Had you simply submitted you'd most likely be alive. I'm not saying you should have played it differently, if that's what your character would do, that's great. But along with that behavior come certain consequences, which you're not well aware of.
Some characters are fated to have shorter lives than others, there's no rule saying otherwise ;)
Naturally I was more than a little annoyed, but I didn't really like how my druid felt anyway. I made a Sorcerer instead.
Also, unless they kept beating you after you went unconscious, it's unlikely that you died by the rules. They have to either get you to your negative bloodied value, or you have to fail 3 saving throws. PCs have different dying rules than monsters. I would recommend reading the section on page 295 of the PHB thoroughly.
Roll a new character that is your previous character's brother. Pursue a wrongful death lawsiut against the guards that killed your brother; leathal force is pushing it for someone offering no direct violence. Choose stats and skills that will make you a better in-game lawyer. Artful Dodger Rogue with maxxed charisma and skill-training in diplomacy should work. Should be worth several hundred gold at least.
All I can think of after reading this thread is:
a) Was your halfling black? If so, did the guards make any remarks like, 'you're in the wrong part of this city, boy'
b) If the answer to (a) is yes, then get your lawyer brother to sue them for racial profiling and guard brutality. $$$$$$$$$$$$$
New hook... A dark form stands over you as your body twitches to life. You are barely conscious as a voice tells you "You owe me little one, You owe me..." When you finally gain full awareness you are all alone and next to a freshly open grave.
For your DM.
New hook... A dark form stands over you as your body twitches to life. You are barely conscious as a voice tells you "You owe me little one, You owe me..." When you finally gain full awareness you are all alone and next to a freshly open grave.
This would be especially cool if the Halfling multi-classes into Warlock. :D
All I can think of after reading this thread is:
a) Was your halfling black? If so, did the guards make any remarks like, 'you're in the wrong part of this city, boy'
b) If the answer to (a) is yes, then get your lawyer brother to sue them for racial profiling and guard brutality. $$$$$$$$$$$$$
LMFAO. Have you ever seen "The Retarded Policeman" on Youtube?
I believe it's episode #4 that deals with racial profiling. If you haven't seen it, I suggest you check it out.