Our assets consist of:
- Human rogue 3/paladin 11, sword-and-shield, wielding a +1 icy burst truebane sword, with a remarkable knack for critting on smites (me).
- Human fighter 2/rogue 12, TWF/ITWF, two swords of subtlety and Disruptive Attack instead of Uncanny Dodge
- Xeph fighter 2/rogue 3/soulknife ?/duelist ?, very fast and agile, relies on multiple weaker attacks instead of one horrific attack, has been having horrible luck with the dice lately (rolled 2, 3, 5, 2, 2). Has Spring Attack and TWF.
- Bladerager troll fighter 3 sans the death throes and immunity to mind-affecting effects, but with regeneration 10 instead of 5; fights with a glaive (called the "trollarm") + 16 Dex + Combat Reflexes for many AoO's and huge threatened area; often drops it for claw/claw/bite/rend fun.
- Human cleric 3/sorcerer 4/mystic theurge 7, focused on blasting with sorcerer spells and buffing with cleric spells; has Divine Metamagic: Empower; Energy Substitution: Acid and Sudden Maximize...plus a winged monkey familiar.
- Two duergar fighter NPCs of unknown level (probably ~8), use rune-engraved warhammers with unknown magical powers; surprisingly durable.
- Possibly the aid of a cave troll tribe...the aforementioned bladerager fighter killed their chief and took over, and they pretty much do what we say (at the moment).
On the plus side, our GM (despite appearances) is not a complete bas***d, and runs fair fights. He's also pretty much promised that the balor won't be summoning another balor, and his blasphemy SLA will allow a save. The balor's stats may be tweaked slightly, but we can't count on it.
Any advice and suggestions welcome, but my paladin's enough of a zealot that he's going after the balor and only one is coming back out, no matter what. The troll will back him up (he's insanely loyal), but I've already ordered the rogue to flee if things go south (for quest-related reasons). Plans that endanger the troll tribe are okay, but not ones that involve their mass death.
Oh, and plans that involve successfully killing the balor while also killing my paladin are fine. Yes, he's that dedicated...and I've already got a backup character in mind.
I should perhaps mention that we are a tactically savvy party, and back at 10th level (and sans our xeph soulknife) successfully destroyed a 20th-level undead cleric and his bodyguard. We rock
Plans that endanger the troll tribe are okay, but not ones that involve their mass death.
You have failed as a Zealot, and should feel ashamed. >:|
Nah, just kidding, best of luck with the Balor.
The balor has a base AC of 35, or 39 with unholy aura. Your party looks like they are going to have a very tough time trying to hit it (they should succeed only on rolls of 18+). Your paladin should have the easiest (relatively) time hitting it, but this is likely consistent only for his 1st hit, and it has a lot of hp to chip through. This is assuming you have all taken the necessary precautions to penetrate his dr.
Same with its sr28, your spellcaster can forget about trying to penetrate its sr, unless he went out of his way to boost his caster lv (eg: practiced spellcaster, pale green ioun stone, spell penetration). Still, there is the problem of his multiple immunities and resistances.
And then there are the problems of its potent SLAs. Implosion has a dc of 27, and looks set to instantly KO your party caster and possibly the xeph soulknife and rogue (since they likely have the poorest fort saves), and note that death ward will not save them as implosion does not have the death descriptor. Dominate monster on PCs with poor will saves (the troll, maybe the rogue if he somehow did not fall to implosion). Greater dispelling to get rid of any annoying buffs (and success is almost guaranteed).
Expect the balor to use quickened telekinesis to disarm the paladin, then entangle him and drag him towards it (so he cannot retrieve it readily).
If you think the caster has a fair chance of affecting the balor, consider using debuff/battlefield control spells instead of damage. This is because the balor is every bit as effective in battle regardless of whether it is at full life or 1hp, and you simply cannot afford to engage in a battle of attrition. Try to choose spells which ignore saves, such as enervation, ray of enfeeblement, ray of exhaustion (it still fatigues on a save, so 2 of them will exhaust the balor, but there is the problem of its good touch AC of 20).
As for buff spells, try ways of improving the attack rolls of your party. Bless, prayer and haste look quite useful, giving +3 to hit and 1 extra attack. Freedom of movement can protect the party fighter from being grappled. Prot from evil can at least prevent your key PCs from being commanded by dominate monster. Silence can counter blasphemy.
Maybe have the PCs try to take advantage of flanking for that extra +2 to-hit.
Still seems hard - your party simply lacks adequate resources at their disposal and proper caster support.
Make sure you have spares memorized, just in case your DM allows a spare character in the middle of combat.
If you can use it on natural weapons, definitely use it on the trolls.
Disarm it soon as possible, you want your trolls to be able to use their Regeneration (the vorpal sword is secondary to the whip)
A few levels higher up and you're charging against a Balor (which, albeit powerful, does not possess the spellcasting repertoire of a 20th level cleric).
Wouldn't you feel a tad cheated if the DM pulled his punches on this guy?
You did mention you are effective when it comes to tactics. Add to that a few trolls to your side (hard to kill due to regeneration) and also the fact that it's 7 PCs who no doubt have access to non-core spells, feats, classes, etc.
On top of it all, you already know who you're fighting! I'd prepare as best as possible, make a fool proof plan and charge in, but I'd ask the DM to keep the Balor as written.
Just a few thoughts.
Have the bladerager buy a torc of antimagic and get near the balor to dis-enchant the vorpal sword for a while and stop the blasphemy. That should make it safer for the rest of the melee folks to get close without being beheaded or blasphemied/imploded. Have a few attack normally and a few try to grapple it to keep it in the antimagic field--I'd say for the paladin to stay outside of the field to use the sword if it tries to get out, while the 'rager keeps up the field and defends and the fighters grapple.
While the field is up, have the theurge lob orbs of acid at it--they go through antimagic fields (instantaneous Conjurations) and will Sicken it to reduce combat capability--through scrolls or a wand if he doesn't know it. When/if the balor tries to get out of the field, have the theurge launch a sudden-maximized DMM-empowered acid-energy-subbed flame strike at the balor for 90+5d6 damage (if he doesn't have Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric)) or 160+8d6 damage (if he does, which he hopefully does). Balors have 290 HP on average, so it should be down to between 178 and 102 HP just from the acid strike, lower with the orbs and the melee pounding.
If the antimagic field goes down, or you can't keep him in it, if possible have the theurge throw out some bestow curses targeted at Con (if even one gets through, that's 60 damage and lower Fort), or combine a Dex-targeted bestow curse (-3 AC) with any feats or items that let the melee folks make touch attacks instead of regular melee attack to reduce his AC to 16. (True strike and Wild Talent+Deep Impact are good, if any of you have that.)
Make sure your allies are over 100 ft away before delivering the deathblow and going out in a blaze of glory.
If your mage can cast Energy Immunity (Fire) on you first, it's all the more badass.
Sorry, but I just had to go and ruin the optimism.
Nope, you are ****ed. Start rerolling now.
Sorry, but I just had to go and ruin the optimism.
Yeah but at least you die like mother
in' rockstars!EDIT: Hmmm, multiple forcecages could force him to waste his action teleporting each round, or else sit in the cage mocking you until you dismiss it or threaten his minions/tower/etc. Cost: 1500gp per cage plus the scroll cost if necessary.
It's a long shot, but it could work or just get the celestials ****** at you.
EDIT: I got it! The average trolls is only 9 feet tall. Disguise the entire party to look like the local trolls. Some will be a bit short, but oh well. Make em kiddies or scale down the disguise. The balor might not notice if they fight from range. Get fire resistance for the trolls if possible. Attack together. Now the balor can't burn his instakills on party members, at least until he finds out which ones are seriously hurting him.
If your mage can cast Energy Immunity (Fire) on you first, it's all the more badass.
According to the SRD entry, at least, the Death Throes damage is untyped. Energy Immunity won't help you there. And unfortunately it's an (Ex) ability, so no antimagic field solution either.
Wait a second, 35 AC isn't that high. My standard 14th level fighter build has AB 25 and AC 34. He'd hit on a 10. That's core with a +1 weapon.
Yes, but the party does not consist of your standard lv14 fighter. They lack access to the weapon spec tree to boost their bab.
The main tank is a rogue3/pal11, which has bab +13. +3 from a +1 truebane weapon, +5 from 20 str (say), for a to-hit of 20. Taking into account +5 to-hit from smite evil, he still needs to roll 14 or more to hit the balor's final AC of 39 (with unholy aura). Needless to say, his iterative attacks are useless.
And he is supposed to be the lucky guy. The rogue and soulknife look like they will have tougher problems, since they lack smite evil to boost their attack rolls.
I am not too worried about its low melee damage output, because it seems that it can destroy the whole party with its SLAs alone.
If I was given a standard 14th lv party (warblade, wizard, cleric, skill monkey), I am sure I can still fashion a viable strategy. But this party is a tad sub-optimal in its makeup (no full caster backup, for instance, and questionable multiclassing combinations), which means that conventional tactics are near impossible.
the spell "align weapon" is your friend. It will bypass DR.
I'm planning to prepare four bless weapons...one each for the troll's glaive, the soulknife's mind blade, and both of the rogue's swords. Although maybe I should leave the soulknife to deal with minion demons and enchant the troll's claws instead of the glaive.
You mentioned that your party of 7 PCs took on a 20th level undead spellcaster and beat him down along with his bodyguard (who was probably very powerful too). Considering your level at the time (10th), that is worthy of praise (I'm assuming the DM pulled no punches and used the spellcaster to his full potential).
The cleric "wasted" one action killing an NPC, but otherwise, yeah, the GM played him full-on. The troll killed him by dropping him to exactly 0 hp...gotta love undead.
Normally I'd say "bring it on!" except that, as written, all the balor has to do is use blasphemy once and we're all helpless for 1d10 minutes, no save. Blasphemy really is screwed up.
Just remember, Balors nuke when you kill them. With decent ranks in Knowledge religion (which any self respecting zealot would have) your paladin would know that.
I rolled killer on my Knowledge (religion) check, so the GM is letting me read the MM entry on balors. Yeah, the death burst sucks...but three PCs (paladin, rogue and soulknife) have Evasion and a better than 50% chance to make the Reflex save...more like 80% when we're buffed up. Since the damage is untyped, it won't kill the troll...and the mystic theurge can-and-will fly FAR out of balor-range.
I got it! The average trolls is only 9 feet tall. Disguise the entire party to look like the local trolls. Some will be a bit short, but oh well. Make em kiddies or scale down the disguise. The balor might not notice if they fight from range. Get fire resistance for the trolls if possible. Attack together. Now the balor can't burn his instakills on party members, at least until he finds out which ones are seriously hurting him.
That...I like that. Very much, in fact. Thanks, Nathreet; that's awesome!
One issue is that we don't really have the luxury of going "magic item shopping;" we've got what we've got. Also, since the mystic theurge is half sorcerer, only his cleric spells are mutable.
We're already planning to shield everyone but me and the theurge with protection from evil to negate dominate monster. Also, the GM rarely pre-buffs his monsters, and we're sneaky enough to have a decent chance to catch the balor off-guard.
I should also mentioned we have around 3 Hero Points [TM] per PC...these can be spent, among other things, to add a d20 to any d20 roll (saves, attacks, whatever). This should, hopefully, keep people alive for a round or two when the SoD's start flying.
I like the grapple idea...maybe protection from fire on the troll, and have him grapple the balor; he can still use his claws while grappling, IIRC. We've also got access to freedom of movement, hopefully making the whip less of a problem. Then the rogue, soulknife and paladin could sneak attack the (hopefully) prone, grappled balor. Oh yeah; and the mystic theuge hs dimensional anchor as well...dratted teleporters.
The theurge typically buffs us with haste, prayer, recitation and mass aid, and I know he's got other buffing spells as well. Aside from dimensional anchor, plus one of the orb spells (I forget which), I'm thinking he should just buff us and not bother blasting the balor.
Thanks for the advice, guys. I know we may be in over our heads, but we'll go down fighting, by Pelor! Any more suggestions would be great.
Long story short, our 13th-14th level party is about to fight a balor, along with an undetermined number of minion demons. I know, it sounds like suicide, but We Are Resolved! (mostly me...I'm the paladin :D). We're in a huge Underdark cave, where the balor had enslaved a tribe of cave trolls to build him a tower for unknown, evil purposes. We have since killed the troll chief and neutralized them as an enemy force (another long story).
Our assets consist of:
- Human rogue 3/paladin 11, sword-and-shield, wielding a +1 icy burst truebane sword, with a remarkable knack for critting on smites (me).
- Human fighter 2/rogue 12, TWF/ITWF, two swords of subtlety and Disruptive Attack instead of Uncanny Dodge
- Xeph fighter 2/rogue 3/soulknife ?/duelist ?, very fast and agile, relies on multiple weaker attacks instead of one horrific attack, has been having horrible luck with the dice lately (rolled 2, 3, 5, 2, 2). Has Spring Attack and TWF.
- Bladerager troll fighter 3 sans the death throes and immunity to mind-affecting effects, but with regeneration 10 instead of 5; fights with a glaive (called the "trollarm") + 16 Dex + Combat Reflexes for many AoO's and huge threatened area; often drops it for claw/claw/bite/rend fun.
- Human cleric 3/sorcerer 4/mystic theurge 7, focused on blasting with sorcerer spells and buffing with cleric spells; has Divine Metamagic: Empower; Energy Substitution: Acid and Sudden Maximize...plus a winged monkey familiar.
- Two duergar fighter NPCs of unknown level (probably ~8), use rune-engraved warhammers with unknown magical powers; surprisingly durable.
- Possibly the aid of a cave troll tribe...the aforementioned bladerager fighter killed their chief and took over, and they pretty much do what we say (at the moment).
On the plus side, our GM (despite appearances) is not a complete bas***d, and runs fair fights. He's also pretty much promised that the balor won't be summoning another balor, and his blasphemy SLA will allow a save. The balor's stats may be tweaked slightly, but we can't count on it.
Any advice and suggestions welcome, but my paladin's enough of a zealot that he's going after the balor and only one is coming back out, no matter what. The troll will back him up (he's insanely loyal), but I've already ordered the rogue to flee if things go south (for quest-related reasons). Plans that endanger the troll tribe are okay, but not ones that involve their mass death.
Oh, and plans that involve successfully killing the balor while also killing my paladin are fine. Yes, he's that dedicated...and I've already got a backup character in mind.
I should perhaps mention that we are a tactically savvy party, and back at 10th level (and sans our xeph soulknife) successfully destroyed a 20th-level undead cleric and his bodyguard. We rock
Give me details on the level 20 necro fight. I need to know how good the DM is at tactics, because there is almost no way a 20 level NPC I was running would lose to level 10 if the level 20 had backup.
Once I assess your DM I can try to predict what he will and won't expect.
I also need to know what your party can do: major magic items, major abilities, spells available, and so on.
I almost forgot, gold also.
That's all I can think of. I mean, you guys are way out of your league.
...
Way out!
The balor's Death Throes ability can easily result in a TPK even though the balor is dead. The description of the ability is a little vague, though...
"When killed, a balor explodes in a blinding flash of light that deals 100 points of damage to anything within 100 feet (Reflex DC 30 half). This explosion automatically destroys any weapons the balor is holding. The save DC is Constitution-based."
Does this flash of light pass through walls? Does it go around corners? Personally I rule that its a Burst. That means that things that have total cover, or are around corners, etc., don't get hit by it.
Check out Diffan's post. You may not have the right feats, but he does have a small bit of spell combo you can do at your level to help. (Assuming you are allowed those spells).
He pretty good at Paladins too. Send him a PM beggig for help. He may be able too.
At the start of the fight, the balor's Implosion and Fire Storm will probably be your biggest threats. Normaly his Blasphemy would be a real challenge, too, but if the DM is house-ruling the spell to have a save, then it won't be quite as bad. If the save is high, though, you might want to put some spell resistance on your key party members anyways.
The big risk will be if the balor hits your cleric with Implosion on the first round. If you win initiative, have all your casters and ranged combatants hold their action until the balor starts using one of his spell-like abilities. Only do this if you think your ranged attacks will be able to do about 40+ damage all together, though. Any less and the Balor will most likely make his concentration check and the SLA will still go off. Once your melee combatants have his based, you should be able to whomp on him. (Assuming enough of you can get past his AC.) Have some of the trolls try to grapple, and have the others hold their action until the balor attempts another SLA. This will give you a chance to disrupt the balor's Greater Teleport, just incase your Dimensional Anchor didn't get past the balor's spell resistance. When the balor gets close to death, have everyone with less than 100 hit points start seeking shelter, assuming your DM treats the balor's Death Throes as a burst effect. If he treats it as a spread effect, you can use a Rope Trick to provide a hiding spot for those that will need it.
I ask this because Balors are not common fiends. Especially for a party of 13th level PCs and a tribe of trolls. If the DM provided you with a scroll or wise sage that could indeed identify what the monster is, or as mentioned earlier, someone in your group rolled the right check, then by all means, use every single spell that would affect him.
Otherwise, you know, that would be metagaming.
Note: Align weapon does not work on natural weapons. You need Align Fang for that.
That...I like that. Very much, in fact. Thanks, Nathreet; that's awesome!
Works great - if you arn't doing it magically. Balors have True Seeing.
Yeah but at least you die like mother
Drug overdose?
Drug overdose?
Out in a blaze of fire and glory.
Drug overdose?
Chugging healing potions can really get to you.
Potion miscibility table, anybody?
NO! Just...no.
I lost my first 1e character when he rolled 01 on the potion miscibility table and his brain was blown clear across the room!Give me details on the level 20 necro fight. I need to know how good the DM is at tactics, because there is almost no way a 20 level NPC I was running would lose to level 10 if the level 20 had backup.
Once I assess your DM I can try to predict what he will and won't expect.
I also need to know what your party can do: major magic items, major abilities, spells available, and so on.
I almost forgot, gold also.
level 20 undead priest fight
The scenario was that the city was being overrun with undead (spawn of Kyuss) and we were holidng them off. We were reinforcing the gate (thing Minas Tirith/LotR setup, with multiple levels to the city; the undead held the lowest level, and we're defending the next.
Earlier, a band of Solite priests (Sol = Hieronous, pretty much) had led a strike force into the Lower City. They disappeared. The next day the remains of the priests reappeared, holding off the undead with homebrew magic. They got through the gate - which was when we PCs showed up.
All the paladins had been killed, and because of their diivine health, the GM ruled they couldn't rise as spawn of Kyuss. Paladins can detect evil at will (which I immediately did, suspicious bastard that I am). The priests (evil undead, of course), knew paladins could do this - they retained the knowledge of life - and so launched the assault at once.
There was one high priest, level 20 (it may have been 18 - I'm not 100% positive), AC 30, hp 130-ish, plus ~6 knights (level 10-12 warrior-types, AC 25-ish) and ~12 lesser priests (level 8-ish, AC low 20s). Our party consisted of the pally, rogue, soulknife and MT - the troll wasn't a PC yet. We had a bunch of low-level guards around, a high-level fighter NPC (~15th, I think), and two allied bladeranger trolls (unmodded and unleveled at the time - one later became our troll fighter PC).
The lesser priests focused on the guardsmen, but attacked any PC who came near. Several used some sort of suicide death burst, that destroyed them botu covered the nearby area in Kyuss worms - this actually converted several of the guardsmen in mid-battle.
The knights guarded the high priest and did some serious melee damage (they took my pally to -8 in the last round, mostly due to my own rash actions).
The high priest stayed behind the knights and threw attack spells - I remember implosion being used, and energy drain. He focused on the PCs, but spared an implosion to kill one of the trolls - the trolls were helping guard the gate, and were the main reason the undead hadn't taken the second level. We survivied though good rolling and judicious use of Hero Points.
The high priest decided to fall back after we killed all the knights and lesser priests and whacked on him for a bit - the GM later said he had considered healing up with a harm, but didn't want to stick around for another full-round attack from everybody. His movement wasn't quite enough to get him out of the surviving troll's reach, and the troll rolled incredibly well to hit and did exactly enough damage to take the high priest to 0 hp.
I should also mention that, for the first 2 rounds, everyone completely forgot to have the allied NPCs roll initiative, so they stood there and got whaled on. Once the "activated," the guardsmen and the trolls engaged the remaining lesser priests and fallen-guardsmen-***-spawn, while the high-level fighter hacked up a knight.
Earlier, a band of Solite priests (Sol = Hieronous, pretty much) had led a strike force into the Lower City. They disappeared. The next day the remains of the priests reappeared, holding off the undead with homebrew magic. They got through the gate - which was when we PCs showed up.
All the paladins had been killed, and because of their diivine health, the GM ruled they couldn't rise as spawn of Kyuss. Paladins can detect evil at will (which I immediately did, suspicious bastard that I am). The priests (evil undead, of course), knew paladins could do this - they retained the knowledge of life - and so launched the assault at once.
There was one high priest, level 20 (it may have been 18 - I'm not 100% positive), AC 30, hp 130-ish, plus ~6 knights (level 10-12 warrior-types, AC 25-ish) and ~12 lesser priests (level 8-ish, AC low 20s). Our party consisted of the pally, rogue, soulknife and MT - the troll wasn't a PC yet. We had a bunch of low-level guards around, a high-level fighter NPC (~15th, I think), and two allied bladeranger trolls (unmodded and unleveled at the time - one later became our troll fighter PC).
The lesser priests focused on the guardsmen, but attacked any PC who came near. Several used some sort of suicide death burst, that destroyed them botu covered the nearby area in Kyuss worms - this actually converted several of the guardsmen in mid-battle.
The knights guarded the high priest and did some serious melee damage (they took my pally to -8 in the last round, mostly due to my own rash actions).
The high priest stayed behind the knights and threw attack spells - I remember implosion being used, and energy drain. He focused on the PCs, but spared an implosion to kill one of the trolls - the trolls were helping guard the gate, and were the main reason the undead hadn't taken the second level. We survivied though good rolling and judicious use of Hero Points.
The high priest decided to fall back after we killed all the knights and lesser priests and whacked on him for a bit - the GM later said he had considered healing up with a harm, but didn't want to stick around for another full-round attack from everybody. His movement wasn't quite enough to get him out of the surviving troll's reach, and the troll rolled incredibly well to hit and did exactly enough damage to take the high priest to 0 hp.
I should also mention that, for the first 2 rounds, everyone completely forgot to have the allied NPCs roll initiative, so they stood there and got whaled on. Once the "activated," the guardsmen and the trolls engaged the remaining lesser priests and fallen-guardsmen-***-spawn, while the high-level fighter hacked up a knight.
NO! Just...no.
Nothing says Untested Pharmaceuticals like a potion intended to heal you with a "Possible side effect: Head may blow up."
Nothing says Untested Pharmaceuticals like a potion intended to heal you with a "Possible side effect: Head may blow up."
"Take HealquikTM! Side effects include, but are not limited to, nausea, vomiting, head explosion, enervation, baleful polymorph, animation as a zombie, and/or plane shifting to Baator. Contact other plane to see if HealquikTM is right for you!"