Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 BrannonB Nov 03, 2008 1:44:25	In this evening's adventure, our 1st level party had a great fight which put us up against about 20 foes. Our fighter was knocked down momentarily but we managed to win. It was challenging and fun. About half of us used our dailies and our action points. After a short rest we were on our way back to our ship, but as we stood on the beach we saw something emerging from the water which is almost certain to be a young black dragon. The session ended there, so we have a couple of weeks to think about how we're going to tackle this thing. The DM decided to give us XP for the previous fight and let us level up to level 2 immediately, before we face the dragon. The party, all level 2: Dragonborn tactical warlord (daily expended, AP expended) Human staff wizard (daily expended, AP expended) Dragonborn sword/board fighter (several healing surges used, AP expended) Human archer ranger/rogue Human fey-pact warlock Halfling inspiring paladin (daily used, AP expended, several healing surges used) I'd love to hear anecdotes about other fights against dragons with low-level PCs, or ideas for how we can maximize our chances of pulling out a win against this critter. We'll take all the help we can get! :-)
#2 m4kitsu Nov 03, 2008 2:02:16	Spread out. One of the dragon's main sources of damage is his breath weapon. Don't let him hit more than one PC with it. Keep the dragon divine challenged at all times. Paladins are better single-target tanks, so your Fighter's off-tanking this one. Be sure he knows that he might be called on to step in for the MT if the paladin takes too much of a beating. Keep the dragon flanked at all times. Both of your strikers still have their dailies and an AP. Use anything you have to grant them combat advantage and as many bonuses to hit as you can muster, then unload the big guns on the dragon. Any trick your wizard has to lock down the dragon and negate its advantage in mobility is essential. If your Wizard has Thunderwave, back the dragon up against a wall and keep him knocked prone as long as you can. Most importantly, give the dragon too many targets. Even as a Solo, he doesn't have enough attacks to keep with with a six-man party. Force it to spread its damage out, and everybody gets to live a little longer. Sadly, at this level, the fight is going to be more tedious than challenging, but it's not out of the realm of survivable for your party.
#3 Overmind69 Nov 03, 2008 2:20:18	Its darkness power is whats going to make the fight difficult.
#4 lokathor Nov 03, 2008 4:00:28	Yes, move the black dragon out of its darkness cloud as soon as you can or you'll suffer greatly for it.
#5 lunargamer Nov 03, 2008 17:12:28	I just ran a black dragon for 3 level 4's (Dragonborn Paladin, Dwarf Fighter, Tiefling Starlock). I put it in a cave designed to give it advantages (like an underwater passage between two chambers, so it could pop behind the party while they fumble around in the dark). The dragon wasn't a huge threat, because it doesn't do that much damage per attack. However, it is rarely going to miss you guys; and if you let it stay in the darkness, you'll never hit it. You have a warlord and a paladin (who, hopefully, has some lay on hands left) to heal, so you should be able to take care of it. As M4kitsu said, don't bunch up. Final piece of advice: roll high!
#6 BrannonB Nov 03, 2008 19:13:44	Final piece of advice: roll high! Ha! Thanks :-) My current line of thinking is that the dragon doesn't have any attacks that can touch us at over 5 squares range. We may be able to stay out of its attack range if the wizard (me) can keep it slowed, while the rest of the party throws as much ranged damage as possible at it. Grasping Shadows will hit it on an 11, and Ray of frost will hit it on a 12...
#7 wannabesuperman Nov 03, 2008 19:55:51	When my players came up against their first BBEG, the Wizard immediately used his Daily and missed, so he spent an AP... and missed. The Warlock then took his turn, and missed. The Swordmage? Missed. The Cleric? Whiff. I've noticed that MAD is an issue against the Solo boss fights. To make characters versatile in combat, they really need three decent stats, which lets them hit most of the time against most enemies, but not against the dragon.
#8 ultimate_cap Nov 03, 2008 20:46:38	Forgive my ignorance, but what is MAD?
#9 omnicronwarlord Nov 03, 2008 20:55:23	Forgive my ignorance, but what is MAD? Multiple Attribute DisorderWhen classes require too many high stats to be effective. quite common in 4e (not a 4e bash, just noting classes in general use more diverse states than in 3e, heck, I like it), 3e paladin with str, con, cha, and wis all used is the epitomy of it.
#10 m4kitsu Nov 03, 2008 21:00:09	Multiple Ability Dependency, actually. Term coined to describe Paladins and Monks in 3.5, used now to mean any class which requires scores of 16+ in more than two attributes to be effective. Notably in 4e, Defenders tend to suffer from this issue, buffing their two attacks stats as well as Con.
#11 Alter_Boy Nov 03, 2008 21:39:42	If your Wizard doesn't have Ray of Frost already, have him retrain into it. Keep lobbing slow effects at it while the Paladin bravely challenges it to attack whilst lobbying arrows at it. Basically, pin the Dragon down and kill it with artillery fire.
#12 gnarfflinger Nov 04, 2008 1:10:57	If the Paladin can get a Fearsome Smite in before the Dragon gets his first actions, that's a penalty on both the Frightening Presence and the first shot of the breath weapon. Try to get any abilities that boost your defenses up and running before the thing attacks. The MM actually says to blow one action point the first round to hit both abilities, and those that get hit with the FP grant combat advantage against the Breath weapon...
#13 BrannonB Nov 04, 2008 19:13:42	If the Paladin can get a Fearsome Smite in before the Dragon gets his first actions, that's a penalty on both the Frightening Presence and the first shot of the breath weapon. Try to get any abilities that boost your defenses up and running before the thing attacks. The MM actually says to blow one action point the first round to hit both abilities, and those that get hit with the FP grant combat advantage against the Breath weapon... Clearly it's going to be very important for the wizard to beat the dragon's initiative. Interestingly, the one and only magic item we've found so far is a Casque of Tactics (trade initiative results with any willing ally) in the form of a circlet, and it happens that the wizard is wearing it. Fortunate, indeed!
#14 mistimp Nov 04, 2008 19:22:40	Brannon, Having both played against and run dragon encounters at this level, I can tell you that it is possible to win. You will need good tactics, but a lot will also depend on luck. I TPK'd a table with a white dragon who managed to recharge his breath weapon EVERY round. Why in the world can't I roll like that as a player? You as the controller and the defenders need to keep the dragon off the strikers long enough for them to kill it. It will be a long fight. Remember that once you lose the front line the party will go down like dominoes. Don't skimp on healing. Let me know how it goes. Amy
#15 BrannonB Nov 17, 2008 4:52:41	Let me know how it goes. HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED... Our paladin's player was absent, so no Paladin for this fight. Warlord, Fighter, Ranger, Warlock, Wizard. Half of us were down our dailies. The players were divided on what we should do. Two said we should try to negotiate to escape with our lives, because the dragon would surely kill us. Two of us argued that we should go on offense, because once we were at sea the dragon could massacre us -- we could not leave safely unless it was dead. We were not going to take the dragon's word for it that he'd let us go. We agreed to let the warlord try to talk to the dragon, but since we were caught red-handed on the beach hauling the dragon's treasure to our boat, we didn't figure on it going all that well :-) The dragon emerged from the water partially onto the beach. Our warlord made an excellent Diplomacy check, stepped up and engaged it in conversation for an entire round, allowing each of us to take a single turn to put some distance between ourselves. But by the time the dragon's turn came up he'd decided he needed to kill us all (totally true). He attacked with his breath weapon, hitting only the warlord due to our spacing. The fighter's readied action went off and she charged and hit. The dragon then clawed at her and missed. The battle took about five or six rounds total. During the combat the fighter used tide of iron to push the dragon further up the beach. The ranger and warlock stayed at range, so the dragon could not attack them at all. The warlord with his net (slows on a hit) and the wizard with ray of frost (slows on a hit) kept the dragon slowed for the entire fight with the exception of when the dragon was in its darkness cloud and we couldn't hit it. However, while in the darkness, the dragon stunned the warlord and the fighter with Frightful Presence (no one else was close enough to be affected). It was finally not slowed and not subject to opportunity attacks or combat challenge, so it could move AT LAST! It decided that it was sick of the wizard's crap (she'd been slowing him and being very obnoxious about what she planned to do with his hide after he was dead), and since she was alone out on the edge of the combat he flew at her, figuring to take her down quickly before the warlord and paladin could recover and come help. Big mistake. Her readied action went off as soon as the dragon emerged from its cloud of darkness, and ray of frost hit, slowing it and stopping it immediately since it had already moved 2 squares. The dragon breathed at her and missed, since her reflex defense is based on her high Int. The rest of the party then unloaded on the now-visible beast, and before it go again, it was dead. We rolled only one critical hit the entire evening, but it was on the warlock's daily, which was nice. The Ranger's dice were traitorous and she barely ever hit. Most of the rest of us were average to slightly above. The dragon never critted us, but got to breathe three or four times. It could only target one of us each time because of our spacing. It hit the warlord with one and the fighter with another, and then missed the wizard cleanly at the end. It used both of its action points during the fight: once for a double move to overcome being slowed, and once for an extra attack. All told, the fighter became bloodied and the warlord was hurt, but nobody was in very bad shape at the end. The warlord used one Inspiring Word for each of them. We skinned it, cut off its head, disembowelled it for parts that might be useful for arcane magics, and carted off its treasure. And we're only second level :-) Fantastically fun game session, with a great team effort!