So... how cruel and unusual would this be? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

So... how cruel and unusual would this be?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
jazzchicken2
Jun 09, 2012 13:52:09 My fanatically religious ranger would like nothing more to have another group member at gunpoint, or rather, arrowpoint, by any means necessary (he's got a demon grafted onto his soul so he was TOTALLY asking for it). There's been talk of her collaborating with a monk PC to eliminate him. Just how awful of a person would I/she be to kill him in his sleep?

and btw, he's not the most pleasant of people irl to game with either. A character reroll would probably benefit the rest of us OOC.
#2
LordManshoon
Jun 09, 2012 14:05:59
My fanatically religious ranger would like nothing more to have another group member at gunpoint, or rather, arrowpoint, by any means necessary (he's got a demon grafted onto his soul so he was TOTALLY asking for it).

Ummm... ok. That's not much to go on. By that, do you mean that this character is using "there's a demon grafted to my soul" as an excuse to go around being an evil, nasty twerp to everyone and everything he encounters, or is it just a sort of curse that the (mostly good) character struggles with and has to overcome? What exactly has this other character said or done to irritate others?

There's been talk of her collaborating with a monk PC to eliminate him. Just how awful of a person would I/she be to kill him in his sleep?

From a player perspective, something like "I kill him in his sleep" is pretty low, and it seems guaranteed to spark a player conflict if this other player isn't cool with losing his demon-graft character. I can understand that if this other character is an obnoxious jerk, it's tempting to be rid of him, but that's better approached by talking to the player and using your words, not going in-game and using heavy-handed actions.

and btw, he's not the most pleasant of people irl to game with either. A character reroll would probably benefit the rest of us OOC.

This only makes it all the more obvious that you need to talk to this player. If you are having problems with the way this character is acting, you need to talk to the player, and if the player is unpleasant to be around, then you might want to speak with everyone else in the group and get their input. If the player is being prickly for no good reason, you might want to reconsider letting him play with you guys.

#3
jazzchicken2
Jun 09, 2012 14:26:59 Somewhat. He's not wholly evil. He playes a paladin who lapses into episodes of dissociative disorder. He's well-RPed, but my character being an inquisitor basically has spent the entire campaign taking notes on 'who to eliminate' for heresy. This character is the obvious choice. Naturally, having considered this option as one fitting with my character's personality, she isn't exactly lawful good. She has no moral issues with killing somebody while they sleep.

I play with a group of friends, so I dont have anything against the guy, per se. He just plays his character well and obnoxiously, and it's almost natural for my PC to want to take him out swiftly and silently.
#4
unforeseen
Jun 09, 2012 14:37:12 Talk to the DM about it first. If the guy created his character that way he either shouldnt have or shouldnt have played it in a way that it makes him such an obvious target.

If you DONT talk to the DM about it first, then be prepared to get into a fist fight in RL.
#5
salla
Jun 09, 2012 14:58:31
My fanatically religious ranger would like nothing more to have another group member at gunpoint, or rather, arrowpoint, by any means necessary (he's got a demon grafted onto his soul so he was TOTALLY asking for it). There's been talk of her collaborating with a monk PC to eliminate him. Just how awful of a person would I/she be to kill him in his sleep?

and btw, he's not the most pleasant of people irl to game with either. A character reroll would probably benefit the rest of us OOC.

If this person's 'not the most pleasant of people to game with', then killing his character in ANY way is likely to result in him creating a new character that will serve no purpose other than killing your character in revenge. PvP is never, EVER a good idea.

If you have problems with the player, discuss them rationally and calmly with him and the DM.
#6
Mad_Jack
Jun 09, 2012 15:04:29
If there's any narratively-"justified" (and I use that term only very loosely) PvP homicide going on in the campaign, it absolutely needs to be agreed upon by all players involved or it's going to eventually crash the whole game. If the player isn't cool with his character being ganked by his fellow party members, even if the way the character was RP'd in-game or the backstories of the rest of the party somehow "justify" it, this isn't going to end well out-of-game.

If the player is a schmuck, talk to the player.

#7
mastercliff
Jun 11, 2012 23:25:53
and btw, he's not the most pleasant of people irl to game with either. A character reroll would probably benefit the rest of us OOC.

Reroll? Why? So he can get revenge by killing you in your sleep?

Mechanics wise, a sleeping player is helpless. Attacking a helpless player is a free crit. However, it's better to seek a solution with your gm. See if you can't evict him from the game or something.

#8
svendj
Jun 12, 2012 5:04:06
My fanatically religious ranger would like nothing more to have another group member at gunpoint, or rather, arrowpoint, by any means necessary (he's got a demon grafted onto his soul so he was TOTALLY asking for it). There's been talk of her collaborating with a monk PC to eliminate him. Just how awful of a person would I/she be to kill him in his sleep?

If someone tried to do this to my character in his sleep, I'd simply say "No, you don't, and your character doesn't.". If they tried to argue the point and the DM would not intervene, I would come up with some bullsh*t reason it wouldn't work, like a hidden tripwire that went off when he stepped into my tent or something.

To answer your question, you'd be a very awful person and I wouldn't fault anyone for not playing with you again.
#9
mousewithchainsaw
Jun 12, 2012 22:46:44 Killing them in sleep (or just pvp in general) never really solves anything, it mostly just ends up with them making a new char with any tiny reason to resent your char and trying to kill you in your sleep. Then you die and make a new char with a reason to hate or not trust his char in which you kill him in his sleep, and the cycle goes on nearly nonstop. Granted I been in groups where this wasnt the case, but in basic games this seems to be just about the case.

Svendj idea works in a sense but not really, it just becomes finding the right time to kill you off even if the DM doesnt let you kill him in his sleep. (In one quest I did another player stolen all my stuff, I was literally helpless against him with no gear, poor dice rolls, and dm wouldnt let me kill him in his sleep. So I just happen to cut his rope when we were all climbing a deadly cliff. Granted I was younger and what not and now then days Id just leave a group that a dm allowed it but meh.)

Best bet would just be confront him, have a showdown and hope you have the better dice rolls, might even make a cool story line for your DM where the loser runs off defeated and the dm gains control of said char as a reoccuring antagonist while said player is a new char.
#10
mastercliff
Jun 13, 2012 17:10:05
(or just pvp in general) never really solves anything

Well, I wouldn't go THAT far. I've had a couple games where the team smacked around someone in game that was being a detriment. It was roleplayed well and the character took the hint. The players didn't mind. It was all in game. Something to be laughed at. The character eventually repented his evil alignment. It was awe inspiring.
#11
salla
Jun 14, 2012 0:07:19
(or just pvp in general) never really solves anything

Well, I wouldn't go THAT far. I've had a couple games where the team smacked around someone in game that was being a detriment. It was roleplayed well and the character took the hint. The players didn't mind. It was all in game. Something to be laughed at. The character eventually repented his evil alignment. It was awe inspiring.

This is why PvP needs to be consensual on both sides; so all players involved make it clear that it's actually motivated character-to-character, not player-to-player. And if it ain't, then it don't happen.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jazzchicken2 Jun 09, 2012 13:52:09	My fanatically religious ranger would like nothing more to have another group member at gunpoint, or rather, arrowpoint, by any means necessary (he's got a demon grafted onto his soul so he was TOTALLY asking for it). There's been talk of her collaborating with a monk PC to eliminate him. Just how awful of a person would I/she be to kill him in his sleep? and btw, he's not the most pleasant of people irl to game with either. A character reroll would probably benefit the rest of us OOC.
#2 LordManshoon Jun 09, 2012 14:05:59	My fanatically religious ranger would like nothing more to have another group member at gunpoint, or rather, arrowpoint, by any means necessary (he's got a demon grafted onto his soul so he was TOTALLY asking for it). Ummm... ok. That's not much to go on. By that, do you mean that this character is using "there's a demon grafted to my soul" as an excuse to go around being an evil, nasty twerp to everyone and everything he encounters, or is it just a sort of curse that the (mostly good) character struggles with and has to overcome? What exactly has this other character said or done to irritate others? There's been talk of her collaborating with a monk PC to eliminate him. Just how awful of a person would I/she be to kill him in his sleep? From a player perspective, something like "I kill him in his sleep" is pretty low, and it seems guaranteed to spark a player conflict if this other player isn't cool with losing his demon-graft character. I can understand that if this other character is an obnoxious jerk, it's tempting to be rid of him, but that's better approached by talking to the player and using your words, not going in-game and using heavy-handed actions. and btw, he's not the most pleasant of people irl to game with either. A character reroll would probably benefit the rest of us OOC. This only makes it all the more obvious that you need to talk to this player. If you are having problems with the way this character is acting, you need to talk to the player, and if the player is unpleasant to be around, then you might want to speak with everyone else in the group and get their input. If the player is being prickly for no good reason, you might want to reconsider letting him play with you guys.
#3 jazzchicken2 Jun 09, 2012 14:26:59	Somewhat. He's not wholly evil. He playes a paladin who lapses into episodes of dissociative disorder. He's well-RPed, but my character being an inquisitor basically has spent the entire campaign taking notes on 'who to eliminate' for heresy. This character is the obvious choice. Naturally, having considered this option as one fitting with my character's personality, she isn't exactly lawful good. She has no moral issues with killing somebody while they sleep. I play with a group of friends, so I dont have anything against the guy, per se. He just plays his character well and obnoxiously, and it's almost natural for my PC to want to take him out swiftly and silently.
#4 unforeseen Jun 09, 2012 14:37:12	Talk to the DM about it first. If the guy created his character that way he either shouldnt have or shouldnt have played it in a way that it makes him such an obvious target. If you DONT talk to the DM about it first, then be prepared to get into a fist fight in RL.
#5 salla Jun 09, 2012 14:58:31	My fanatically religious ranger would like nothing more to have another group member at gunpoint, or rather, arrowpoint, by any means necessary (he's got a demon grafted onto his soul so he was TOTALLY asking for it). There's been talk of her collaborating with a monk PC to eliminate him. Just how awful of a person would I/she be to kill him in his sleep? and btw, he's not the most pleasant of people irl to game with either. A character reroll would probably benefit the rest of us OOC. If this person's 'not the most pleasant of people to game with', then killing his character in ANY way is likely to result in him creating a new character that will serve no purpose other than killing your character in revenge. PvP is never, EVER a good idea. If you have problems with the player, discuss them rationally and calmly with him and the DM.
#6 Mad_Jack Jun 09, 2012 15:04:29	If there's any narratively-"justified" (and I use that term only very loosely) PvP homicide going on in the campaign, it absolutely needs to be agreed upon by all players involved or it's going to eventually crash the whole game. If the player isn't cool with his character being ganked by his fellow party members, even if the way the character was RP'd in-game or the backstories of the rest of the party somehow "justify" it, this isn't going to end well out-of-game. If the player is a schmuck, talk to the player.
#7 mastercliff Jun 11, 2012 23:25:53	and btw, he's not the most pleasant of people irl to game with either. A character reroll would probably benefit the rest of us OOC. Reroll? Why? So he can get revenge by killing you in your sleep? Mechanics wise, a sleeping player is helpless. Attacking a helpless player is a free crit. However, it's better to seek a solution with your gm. See if you can't evict him from the game or something.
#8 svendj Jun 12, 2012 5:04:06	My fanatically religious ranger would like nothing more to have another group member at gunpoint, or rather, arrowpoint, by any means necessary (he's got a demon grafted onto his soul so he was TOTALLY asking for it). There's been talk of her collaborating with a monk PC to eliminate him. Just how awful of a person would I/she be to kill him in his sleep? If someone tried to do this to my character in his sleep, I'd simply say "No, you don't, and your character doesn't.". If they tried to argue the point and the DM would not intervene, I would come up with some bullsh*t reason it wouldn't work, like a hidden tripwire that went off when he stepped into my tent or something. To answer your question, you'd be a very awful person and I wouldn't fault anyone for not playing with you again.
#9 mousewithchainsaw Jun 12, 2012 22:46:44	Killing them in sleep (or just pvp in general) never really solves anything, it mostly just ends up with them making a new char with any tiny reason to resent your char and trying to kill you in your sleep. Then you die and make a new char with a reason to hate or not trust his char in which you kill him in his sleep, and the cycle goes on nearly nonstop. Granted I been in groups where this wasnt the case, but in basic games this seems to be just about the case. Svendj idea works in a sense but not really, it just becomes finding the right time to kill you off even if the DM doesnt let you kill him in his sleep. (In one quest I did another player stolen all my stuff, I was literally helpless against him with no gear, poor dice rolls, and dm wouldnt let me kill him in his sleep. So I just happen to cut his rope when we were all climbing a deadly cliff. Granted I was younger and what not and now then days Id just leave a group that a dm allowed it but meh.) Best bet would just be confront him, have a showdown and hope you have the better dice rolls, might even make a cool story line for your DM where the loser runs off defeated and the dm gains control of said char as a reoccuring antagonist while said player is a new char.
#10 mastercliff Jun 13, 2012 17:10:05	(or just pvp in general) never really solves anything Well, I wouldn't go THAT far. I've had a couple games where the team smacked around someone in game that was being a detriment. It was roleplayed well and the character took the hint. The players didn't mind. It was all in game. Something to be laughed at. The character eventually repented his evil alignment. It was awe inspiring.
#11 salla Jun 14, 2012 0:07:19	(or just pvp in general) never really solves anything Well, I wouldn't go THAT far. I've had a couple games where the team smacked around someone in game that was being a detriment. It was roleplayed well and the character took the hint. The players didn't mind. It was all in game. Something to be laughed at. The character eventually repented his evil alignment. It was awe inspiring. This is why PvP needs to be consensual on both sides; so all players involved make it clear that it's actually motivated character-to-character, not player-to-player. And if it ain't, then it don't happen.