Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 malosasalist Jul 25, 2008 16:23:14	In our campaign, we have a bunch of people, the DM, myself the wizard, a warlock, a cleric, a rogue, and a fighter. The first four of us fundamentally understand the game and its mechanics. The latter two have claimed superior knowledge and understanding of the game, but through and through prove to us that they probably haven't ever even opened the player's handbook. I don't mind helping. In fact, I like to help. But every time you attack and ask which die to roll ("It's the D20, Ian, it's always the D20."), and then ask if you're trying to roll so that it's lower than your strength ("Yes, we know you have a high strength. Congratulations. Seriously, I'm proud of you, you are not trying to ROLL LOWER THAN IT."), I grow tired after hearing it every attack of encounter. We've just reached level 5 and the fighter has been reading my powers. He really enjoys them. He proclaimed aloud, "this has made my decision. I'm definitely multiclassing as a wizard." "But Ian, you have an intelligence of 10. It will take you until level 14 before you can successfully multiclass as a wizard, another level to retrain, and another two levels to realize that it was stupid to multiclass as a wizard and try to fix all that you've lost. You will have an intelligence of 13 -- this means that if you don't roll a 20, you will miss on all of these illustrious powers 100% of the time." "No, I'm really strong, they'll do a lot of damage." "...Oh, okay then. Have fun being a wizard." Additionally, the DM has warned him to please, please, PLEASE stop leaving the group -- this isn't the Ian game, this is the Dungeons & Dragons. Literally every session he runs off on his own and gets brutally slaughtered and we have to waste our gold on him. He's also very muscular, and threatens violence every time we remind him that it's in fact not the Ian game and he should just go with the party. Do you have any companions that just prove over and over that they need to read a book?
#2 Novacat Jul 25, 2008 17:25:13	What I would do in your situation, is have your character sit his character down and have a chat. It's VERY important that he realize that this is an in-game conversation. It's also important that you get the rest of the party to back you up. "[Ian's character's name here], look... we like you. We wouldn't have you with us if we didn't like you. We value your strength, we value your contributions to the team. However, there are a couple things you do which are seriously hurting us. The next time you needlessly separate from the group, you're not getting raised. The next time you try to be a hero, you're not getting raised. None of us can do this on our own, and neither can you." Then the next time he asks which die to roll, have one of those giant d20s handy to throw at him.
#3 malosasalist Jul 25, 2008 17:28:39	Hahaha. Thank you.
#4 cal-vigu Jul 25, 2008 18:40:25	..(snip)... He's also very muscular, and threatens violence every time we remind him that it's in fact not the Ian game and he should just go with the party. THAT sort of behavior needs to stop. Period. You all need to come together and tell him in no uncertain terms that THAT is absolutely NOT acceptable. Threats of physical violence should equal complete dismissal from the group. One warning only. Period. End. Zero tolerance for that stuff. Zero.
#5 salla Jul 25, 2008 18:44:57	THAT sort of behavior needs to stop. Period. You all need to come together and tell him in no uncertain terms that THAT is absolutely NOT acceptable. Threats of physical violence should equal complete dismissal from the group. One warning only. Period. End. Zero tolerance for that stuff. Zero. Agreed. If you must, hide a tape-recorder nearby and record it. It's illegal to threaten people with physical violence.
#6 The_Stray Jul 26, 2008 9:06:03	Remind him the next time he threatens you with physical violence that he is outnumbered. Then have the rest of the group grab him and toss his *****-ass out the door, and tell him if he shows his face again that the police will be called. That sort of behavior is not acceptable, and indeed is punishable by law.
#7 Shiftkitty Jul 26, 2008 9:47:28	I had one player that read the book just he could try to do things that would require special rulings, and then whine and cry when the special ruling wasn't to his insanely advantageous favor. Just to clear things up, though, is Ian threatening the rest of the players, or is Ian's character threatening the rest of the PCs? If he's actually threatening the players, then yes, call the cops. Never invite him back. If he tries to make life hard for you elsewhere, keep calling the cops, and press charges each time. (It drives me up the walls when people call the police, usually over domestic violence, but won't press charges.) If it's PC threatening PC, eject him from the game and never invite him back. He can get his fragile ego stroked elsewhere. I believe it was Ann Landers who said "No one can take advantage of you without your permission."
#8 malosasalist Jul 26, 2008 11:12:58	Remind him the next time he threatens you with physical violence that he is outnumbered. Then have the rest of the group grab him and toss his *****-ass out the door, and tell him if he shows his face again that the police will be called. That sort of behavior is not acceptable, and indeed is punishable by law. Hey now, this is our friend here. He only does it because he's really insecure, and he'd never actually fight us, and that would make us really bad friends to pick at his deepest fears. We've considered not inviting him back, but seriously, it's a game and he's our friend. Hilariously enough though, although he's extremely muscular and would absolutely destroy me in a fist fight, I'm very agile after four years of varsity soccer etc, recently we've been wrestling (outside of the game) and I've been destroying him every time. If he laid a single punch I'd be near-dead though.
#9 grod_the_giant Jul 26, 2008 11:33:40	sounds like you need to sit these guys down and explain the rules of the game to them. They're your friends, they should listen. If not, maybe it's better not to game with them. I can't play with one of my good friends, because I like serious d&d and he's a goofball without a serious bone in his body.
#10 Shiftkitty Jul 26, 2008 11:37:53	Do you believe he would actually commit physical violence on you over a game? Do you think anyone else in society is going to put up with threats of physical violence? If it's a friendship that you do not wish to terminate, then you owe it to him to teach him how to control himself now, while he's just dealing with friends, and not later, when he's making new friends in prison because he learned that threats and violence was how to get his way. Exclude him from sessions until he learns how to behave. He's acting like a little kid, so you may have to use little kid discipline on him. Be sure he knows why he's being disciplined. Would you keep him on a sports team if he wasn't playing as a team member? Or would you have him sit out a few games until he gets the idea? (FYI, I have terminated two friendships in my life, and it is a painful thing to do. One was a girl I knew for a few years, and we were best buds, but then she went on this pity-party trip and was trying to pull me down, too. I tried to turn her around by being a friend, being there when she needed someone to listen, but she seemed to relish the pity and had no desire to stop playing the sympathy card, so I stopped returning her calls after a long period of consideration (I was going through a tough time of my own, but all the sympathy seemed to be about her). The other was a guy who used to be cool, knew him for over ten years, then he started hitting the bottle too hard, became a jerk, alienated all of his friends except those who were as big a drunk as he was, and I walked out of his life for good. So yes, it's rough, but when a person is having a negative impact on your life, it's up to you to decide mow much you're going to put with before it becomes detrimental to you. No one can blame you for looking out for yourself, first, and yes, I've also ejected my own brother from the game because he was destroying it for everyone else.)
#11 cal-vigu Jul 26, 2008 12:06:42	Hey now, this is our friend here. He only does it because he's really insecure, and he'd never actually fight us, and that would make us really bad friends to pick at his deepest fears. We've considered not inviting him back, but seriously, it's a game and he's our friend. Hilariously enough though, although he's extremely muscular and would absolutely destroy me in a fist fight, I'm very agile after four years of varsity soccer etc, recently we've been wrestling (outside of the game) and I've been destroying him every time. If he laid a single punch I'd be near-dead though. You say he's your friend - but THAT behavior is very NOT the behavior of a friend. You say "that would make us really bad friends to pick at his deepest fears" - yet, its okay for him to be threatening you all with physical violence? If you keep allowing him to act that way - both the in-game not learning the rules, going off on his own "Ian game" - and the out-of game Threatening -- you are just "Enabling" that behavior. You're proving to him that its okay to be: lazy, selfish, and a bully to get his own way. That sort of anti-social behavior is not acceptable out there in the real world any more than it is when you're playing D&D. If he is, truly your friend, HE needs to treat you with the same respect and courtesy that he wants from you. Again, I strongly suggest that you NOT allow this behavior to go on for even another minute - you ALL need to tell him in clear language what is wrong and unacceptable. If he cannot or will not abide by that, then he should NOT be allowed to participate. If you continue to allow him to act that way "because he is our friend" - 1) you are NOT helping "your friend" at all with his social skills, and 2) you have only yourselves to blame as he continues to ruin your games. I'm not advocating you gang-jump him and bum's rush him out the door - but I DO recommend that you show that ALL of you are united in NOT accepting his current behavior.
#12 thalyon Jul 26, 2008 13:55:08	Stop inviting him to the game.
#13 pigknight Jul 26, 2008 15:59:06	Stop inviting him to the game. +1, simple and effective.
#14 The_Stray Jul 26, 2008 19:17:03	Hey now, this is our friend here. He only does it because he's really insecure, and he'd never actually fight us, and that would make us really bad friends to pick at his deepest fears. We've considered not inviting him back, but seriously, it's a game and he's our friend. Hilariously enough though, although he's extremely muscular and would absolutely destroy me in a fist fight, I'm very agile after four years of varsity soccer etc, recently we've been wrestling (outside of the game) and I've been destroying him every time. If he laid a single punch I'd be near-dead though. Perhaps you should read this article and then re-evaluate your stance. Is he your friend because you like him, or is he your friend because you don't want to feel like a heel if you toss him out?
#15 malosasalist Jul 26, 2008 20:35:43	Perhaps you should read this article and then re-evaluate your stance. Is he your friend because you like him, or is he your friend because you don't want to feel like a heel if you toss him out? While it is certainly true that I don't want to feel like a heel for tossing him out, we're really good friends outside of D&D. Additionally, those kind of threats are the only way he feels he can actually defend himself. I feel really bad for him sometimes, because _everyone_ makes fun of him for being stupid and he tries really hard.
#16 Joseph_Silver Jul 27, 2008 17:52:41	Stop making fun of him and he might stop threatening you. It looks like he's just fighting back your own brand of bullying.
#17 foxen Jul 28, 2008 2:43:16	Either you or the DM should sit with him go through his character sheet... Help calculate all the bonuses to attack per power or whatever and damage, and maybe make a cheat sheet that states what dice are needed for what attacks etc. For instance...for my pally I made a power sheet with all the powers listed and stats for each attack etc. This is somewhat more than what I normally write down, but perhaps your buff player would appreciate something similar. Bolstering Strike Description etc. Lerissa (Magic Axe) d20+6/d12+4 Dmg Crit 16+2d12 Axe Attack d20+5/d12+3 Dmg Other d20+5/d12+2 Dmg Etc. I had to do this for one of my players. He's like 12 years old, doesn't own the book, and normally sits around stacking dice....but he wants to be a part of the group because well, he's bored and kinda wants to hang with the other kids....and he makes really interesting in game roleplaying decisions that just blow the entire party's mind away. I wish some of the other older players had their attacks stats worked out ahead of time...cause damn, from round to round, sometimes their numbers are different (same conditions) and I make them sit there calculating their attack and damage until I'm satisfied. However, I wish in the game I played in, the rest of the group would actually think ahead and know what their character is doing BEFORE their turn...intead of opening the book, reading through all the descriptions, and then coming up with something like three minutes later...(probably only a minnute later)....ergh. Fox