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Sonic Damage vs ships

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
arcana_man
May 05, 2009 19:35:22 One of our DnD regulars at our game sessions is hosting a New Campaign. Its a Sea Campaign where we play as pirates...Looting civilian ships and fighting off the Navy and what have you...We play in 3.5. I originally created a Sorcerer but the DM informed me of some rules about being on ships and the captains attack strategy dosnt mesh well with my original character... So i decided to pick up my Expanded Psionisis Handbook 3.5. When i Made My character I called my DM for some info on the stroyline and he tells me... by the way i dont think i want you to be a Psion/Wilder because he dosnt want me to be overpowered.... mainly because... I was gonna be a Cannoneer Position... but isntead of using cannons i can use Sonic powers... reasons, well the ships aperently take only Half Dmg against Fire, Cold, Electricity, and Acid... on top of their damage reduction So i was thinking Sonic...My dm dosnt want me to do somthing like take energy way turn it into sonic dmg and blow up an enitre ship all at once and just rake in the EXP... but i can do the same thing with the Sorcerer or Wizard... Wizard can go archmage and change his elemental spells into sonic damage or even just being sorcerer. there are sonic Damage spells in the Spell Compedium... I could Use Sound Lance to smash over the masts of the ships... Basicly he is not a good dm... and im really exp'ed at dnd so he is afraid im gonna unbalance the game and he wont be able to handle it...How should i go about explaining to him and this isnt overpowered... Spellcasters are strong.... A druid could cause wirlpool and just have the enemy ship sink into the water. One of my favorite character ideas to play is the Demolition Guy... you know.. evocation wizards n the such but when i heard my spells wouldnt put much of a dent into the ship i looked to sonic... or even force damage... If i just dropped the issue and make a melee character ... the problem wont go away... i would just end up making a character good for the situation... like a guy with wirlwind attack and a high strength. All my characters are good... I dont consider myself as a powergamer.... i can make stupidly broken cheesed out characters but i dont...Any advice? Im the MAN.. if i dont play then no one else will... and the DM is kinnda like the younger guy who has suddenly got a boost of confidence having a chance to DM... who also has an anger problem... I dont want any Problems between us but im not gonna play a ****** character... the thing is... other players make strong characters but he and his brother always give me specificly **** for having a strong character... they dont understand the game enough to see the power in all the classes... they always just look at my character and yell nerf... and i am thinking ... learn how to make a good character...
#2
salla
May 05, 2009 19:39:30 For the love of Ceiling Cat, please use paragraphs.
#3
gregt_314
May 05, 2009 20:41:19
One of our Dungeons and Dragons regulars, who attends our game sessions, is hosting a new campaign. It's a sea-based campaign where we play as pirates - looting civilian ships and fighting off the navy and what have you. We play in 3.5.

I originally created a Sorcerer but the DM informed me of some rules about being on ships - sorry, I can't be bothered elaborating on that point - and the captain of the ship's attack strategy doesn't mesh well with my original character concept.

So, to deal with this problem, I decided to pick up the Expanded Psionics Handbook 3.5. When I made my character I called my DM for some info on the storyline and he told me he doesn't want me to be a Psion/Wilder because he doesn't want me to be overpowered.

The reason he thought this is mainly that I was going to be a Cannoneer Position, but instead of using cannons I would use sonic powers.

The reason I thought this would be a good idea was that ships apparently take only half damage against Fire, Cold, Electricity, and Acid, which is on top of their damage reduction. So I was thinking Sonic.

My DM doesn't want me to do something like take Energy Wave, turn it into sonic damage and blow up an entire ship all at once and just rake in the EXP. However, I can do the same thing with the Sorceror or Wizard. Wizard can go archmage and change his elemental spells into sonic damage. I could even accomplish this just by being a Sorceror. There are sonic damage spells in the Spell Compedium. I could use Sound Lance to smash over the masts of the ships.

Basically he is not a good DM. And I'm really experienced at D&D (although not at spelling and grammar!) so he is afraid I'm going to unbalance the game and he won't be able to handle it.

How should I go about explaining to him that this isn't overpowered? Spellcasters are strong. A druid could cause a whirlpool and just have the enemy ship sink into the water. One of my favorite character ideas to play is the Demolition Guy - you know: evocation wizards and such. But when I heard my spells wouldn't put much of a dent into the ship I looked to sonic, or even force damage.

If I just dropped the issue and made a melee character, the problem wouldn't go away. I would just end up making a character good for the situation, like a guy with whirlwind attack and a high strength. All my characters are good. I don't consider myself as a powergamer. I can make stupidly broken cheesed out characters but I don't. Any advice?

I'm the MAN. If I don't play then no one else will, and the DM is kind of like the younger guy who has suddenly got a boost of confidence having a chance to DM, but who also has an anger problem. I don't want any problems between us but I'm not going to play a goldarned fop of a character.

The thing is, other players make strong characters but he and his brother always give me specifically a hard time for having a strong character. They don't understand the game enough to see the power in all the classes. They always just look at my character and yell nerf, and I am thinking, "Learn how to make a good character."

Fixed.

I was going to argue with this guy but then I noticed that he was the MAN. You can't argue with the MAN.
#4
collycauseschaos
May 05, 2009 22:46:11 Well, I think THE MAN should do the following:

1. Talk to the DM about his views in a nice, nonconfrontational fashion.

2. Explain to him that player fun is really important, and the DM should allow this.

3. If this fails, scream I'M THE MAN in his face, slap the figures off the mat, and tell him the game is cancelled, because players get the final call on everything, especially rules discussions.

4. Tell us how it goes.
#5
nowiwantmydmg
May 06, 2009 10:17:49
Fixed.

Thank you, you are the man.

Anyway OP, you do know that D&D isn't a competition right?

Your character doesn't always have to be the OMG best Evar!

Just make the "best" character you can enjoy playing within the constraints of the game. If all of your numbers have to be maximized for you to have fun I'd say you're playing the wrong game.

And Fire is ineffective against wood & cloth(ie: a boat)? =HAHAHAHA lame.
#6
crossblade
May 07, 2009 0:26:40 I actually had to check, but Stormwreck; Page 28. Fire, Acid & Electricity DO cause half damage on boat sections! Cold is actually quarter damage and Force + Sonic are full damage.

That said, OP; you should be more sympathetic to a first time DM. I wouldn't allow psychics in my game either... but only because I don't understand how they work; however that boils down to personal preference.

If you would like to play a psychic, take him aside and show him a rough build you have planned... or key abilities you want to use (not the exact build, you have to leave some surprises for him); then show him how a sorcerer/wizard could do the exact same thing, just so he can see that it is not overpowered.

Questions:
1) In comparison, what are the levels of the psion when they get this ability vs a caster when they can do the same?

2) a) Do you honestly think you are NOT a power gamer?
b) Were you the player in question in the situation in your last thread? DM decisions
#7
Kerrus
May 07, 2009 8:30:45 But he's THE MAN, man!

I think, as a longtime player and occasional DMer that if the DM wants to forbid you from taking a specific damage type, citing game balance- and as you are clearly a rather extreme optimizer, that he is well within his rights as such.

Given that you're approaching this build as "I need to take sonic becuase it does full damage" and not "I want to take sonic because my character concept is based on it", I think it ought to be easy enough for you to go "Well, the DM has forbidden energy sub/sonic and sonic powers, maybe I can optimize my character to be BOAT-BANE, MAN OF THE SEAS, using the other powers I have available. Afterall, the world is more then just blasting."
#8
salla
May 07, 2009 14:57:29
1) In comparison, what are the levels of the psion when they get this ability vs a caster when they can do the same?

Typically, the same. The difference is, the casters get free scaling.

Example: A 5th level Wizard casts a Fireball. It costs him a 3rd level spell slot, he deals 5d6 damage.
A 5th level Psion manifests an Energy Ball. It costs him 5 power points (equal to a 3rd level slot), and he deals 5d6 damage.
---
A 9th level wizard casts a Fireball. He deals 9d6 damage, and it still only costs him a 3rd level spell slot.
A 9th level psion manifests an Energy Ball. If he wants to deal 9d6 damage, he has to spend 9 power points, equivalent to a 5th level spell slot. If he doesn't spend the extra points, he deals 5d6 damage.
#9
yamishinobi
May 07, 2009 23:40:51 i built a concept around sonic damage before, i took the idea of i want to ignore 90% of the possible set of monster resistances. then i built the concept of a socially appealing elven sorcereress with godlike cuteness, attractiveness, and beauty as well as an attraction to loud sounds. thunderstorms made her feel really good, in the arousing way. she also liked to read, especially books on sound, force, and weather. i even paid to research sonic damage dealing versions of existing spells. Same spell level and damage, swap main damage damage for sonic damage. she deliberately through diet and excercise molded her body for sound barrier breaking somatic gestures, and trained her vocal chords for useage of loud powerful sounds to serve as verbal components. it was easier due to her venerable dragonwrought kobold ancestor who could use the "Detect City Nuke" at will as a free action. (the ancestor could. not her)

whenever you choose to build around obscure damage types, people will call you a powergamer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 arcana_man May 05, 2009 19:35:22	One of our DnD regulars at our game sessions is hosting a New Campaign. Its a Sea Campaign where we play as pirates...Looting civilian ships and fighting off the Navy and what have you...We play in 3.5. I originally created a Sorcerer but the DM informed me of some rules about being on ships and the captains attack strategy dosnt mesh well with my original character... So i decided to pick up my Expanded Psionisis Handbook 3.5. When i Made My character I called my DM for some info on the stroyline and he tells me... by the way i dont think i want you to be a Psion/Wilder because he dosnt want me to be overpowered.... mainly because... I was gonna be a Cannoneer Position... but isntead of using cannons i can use Sonic powers... reasons, well the ships aperently take only Half Dmg against Fire, Cold, Electricity, and Acid... on top of their damage reduction So i was thinking Sonic...My dm dosnt want me to do somthing like take energy way turn it into sonic dmg and blow up an enitre ship all at once and just rake in the EXP... but i can do the same thing with the Sorcerer or Wizard... Wizard can go archmage and change his elemental spells into sonic damage or even just being sorcerer. there are sonic Damage spells in the Spell Compedium... I could Use Sound Lance to smash over the masts of the ships... Basicly he is not a good dm... and im really exp'ed at dnd so he is afraid im gonna unbalance the game and he wont be able to handle it...How should i go about explaining to him and this isnt overpowered... Spellcasters are strong.... A druid could cause wirlpool and just have the enemy ship sink into the water. One of my favorite character ideas to play is the Demolition Guy... you know.. evocation wizards n the such but when i heard my spells wouldnt put much of a dent into the ship i looked to sonic... or even force damage... If i just dropped the issue and make a melee character ... the problem wont go away... i would just end up making a character good for the situation... like a guy with wirlwind attack and a high strength. All my characters are good... I dont consider myself as a powergamer.... i can make stupidly broken cheesed out characters but i dont...Any advice? Im the MAN.. if i dont play then no one else will... and the DM is kinnda like the younger guy who has suddenly got a boost of confidence having a chance to DM... who also has an anger problem... I dont want any Problems between us but im not gonna play a **** character... the thing is... other players make strong characters but he and his brother always give me specificly ** for having a strong character... they dont understand the game enough to see the power in all the classes... they always just look at my character and yell nerf... and i am thinking ... learn how to make a good character...
#2 salla May 05, 2009 19:39:30	For the love of Ceiling Cat, please use paragraphs.
#3 gregt_314 May 05, 2009 20:41:19	One of our Dungeons and Dragons regulars, who attends our game sessions, is hosting a new campaign. It's a sea-based campaign where we play as pirates - looting civilian ships and fighting off the navy and what have you. We play in 3.5. I originally created a Sorcerer but the DM informed me of some rules about being on ships - sorry, I can't be bothered elaborating on that point - and the captain of the ship's attack strategy doesn't mesh well with my original character concept. So, to deal with this problem, I decided to pick up the Expanded Psionics Handbook 3.5. When I made my character I called my DM for some info on the storyline and he told me he doesn't want me to be a Psion/Wilder because he doesn't want me to be overpowered. The reason he thought this is mainly that I was going to be a Cannoneer Position, but instead of using cannons I would use sonic powers. The reason I thought this would be a good idea was that ships apparently take only half damage against Fire, Cold, Electricity, and Acid, which is on top of their damage reduction. So I was thinking Sonic. My DM doesn't want me to do something like take Energy Wave, turn it into sonic damage and blow up an entire ship all at once and just rake in the EXP. However, I can do the same thing with the Sorceror or Wizard. Wizard can go archmage and change his elemental spells into sonic damage. I could even accomplish this just by being a Sorceror. There are sonic damage spells in the Spell Compedium. I could use Sound Lance to smash over the masts of the ships. Basically he is not a good DM. And I'm really experienced at D&D (although not at spelling and grammar!) so he is afraid I'm going to unbalance the game and he won't be able to handle it. How should I go about explaining to him that this isn't overpowered? Spellcasters are strong. A druid could cause a whirlpool and just have the enemy ship sink into the water. One of my favorite character ideas to play is the Demolition Guy - you know: evocation wizards and such. But when I heard my spells wouldn't put much of a dent into the ship I looked to sonic, or even force damage. If I just dropped the issue and made a melee character, the problem wouldn't go away. I would just end up making a character good for the situation, like a guy with whirlwind attack and a high strength. All my characters are good. I don't consider myself as a powergamer. I can make stupidly broken cheesed out characters but I don't. Any advice? I'm the MAN. If I don't play then no one else will, and the DM is kind of like the younger guy who has suddenly got a boost of confidence having a chance to DM, but who also has an anger problem. I don't want any problems between us but I'm not going to play a goldarned fop of a character. The thing is, other players make strong characters but he and his brother always give me specifically a hard time for having a strong character. They don't understand the game enough to see the power in all the classes. They always just look at my character and yell nerf, and I am thinking, "Learn how to make a good character." Fixed. I was going to argue with this guy but then I noticed that he was the MAN. You can't argue with the MAN.
#4 collycauseschaos May 05, 2009 22:46:11	Well, I think THE MAN should do the following: 1. Talk to the DM about his views in a nice, nonconfrontational fashion. 2. Explain to him that player fun is really important, and the DM should allow this. 3. If this fails, scream I'M THE MAN in his face, slap the figures off the mat, and tell him the game is cancelled, because players get the final call on everything, especially rules discussions. 4. Tell us how it goes.
#5 nowiwantmydmg May 06, 2009 10:17:49	Fixed. Thank you, you are the man. Anyway OP, you do know that D&D isn't a competition right? Your character doesn't always have to be the OMG best Evar! Just make the "best" character you can enjoy playing within the constraints of the game. If all of your numbers have to be maximized for you to have fun I'd say you're playing the wrong game. And Fire is ineffective against wood & cloth(ie: a boat)? =HAHAHAHA lame.
#6 crossblade May 07, 2009 0:26:40	I actually had to check, but Stormwreck; Page 28. Fire, Acid & Electricity DO cause half damage on boat sections! Cold is actually quarter damage and Force + Sonic are full damage. That said, OP; you should be more sympathetic to a first time DM. I wouldn't allow psychics in my game either... but only because I don't understand how they work; however that boils down to personal preference. If you would like to play a psychic, take him aside and show him a rough build you have planned... or key abilities you want to use (not the exact build, you have to leave some surprises for him); then show him how a sorcerer/wizard could do the exact same thing, just so he can see that it is not overpowered. Questions: 1) In comparison, what are the levels of the psion when they get this ability vs a caster when they can do the same? 2) a) Do you honestly think you are NOT a power gamer? b) Were you the player in question in the situation in your last thread? DM decisions
#7 Kerrus May 07, 2009 8:30:45	But he's THE MAN, man! I think, as a longtime player and occasional DMer that if the DM wants to forbid you from taking a specific damage type, citing game balance- and as you are clearly a rather extreme optimizer, that he is well within his rights as such. Given that you're approaching this build as "I need to take sonic becuase it does full damage" and not "I want to take sonic because my character concept is based on it", I think it ought to be easy enough for you to go "Well, the DM has forbidden energy sub/sonic and sonic powers, maybe I can optimize my character to be BOAT-BANE, MAN OF THE SEAS, using the other powers I have available. Afterall, the world is more then just blasting."
#8 salla May 07, 2009 14:57:29	1) In comparison, what are the levels of the psion when they get this ability vs a caster when they can do the same? Typically, the same. The difference is, the casters get free scaling. Example: A 5th level Wizard casts a Fireball. It costs him a 3rd level spell slot, he deals 5d6 damage. A 5th level Psion manifests an Energy Ball. It costs him 5 power points (equal to a 3rd level slot), and he deals 5d6 damage. --- A 9th level wizard casts a Fireball. He deals 9d6 damage, and it still only costs him a 3rd level spell slot. A 9th level psion manifests an Energy Ball. If he wants to deal 9d6 damage, he has to spend 9 power points, equivalent to a 5th level spell slot. If he doesn't spend the extra points, he deals 5d6 damage.
#9 yamishinobi May 07, 2009 23:40:51	i built a concept around sonic damage before, i took the idea of i want to ignore 90% of the possible set of monster resistances. then i built the concept of a socially appealing elven sorcereress with godlike cuteness, attractiveness, and beauty as well as an attraction to loud sounds. thunderstorms made her feel really good, in the arousing way. she also liked to read, especially books on sound, force, and weather. i even paid to research sonic damage dealing versions of existing spells. Same spell level and damage, swap main damage damage for sonic damage. she deliberately through diet and excercise molded her body for sound barrier breaking somatic gestures, and trained her vocal chords for useage of loud powerful sounds to serve as verbal components. it was easier due to her venerable dragonwrought kobold ancestor who could use the "Detect City Nuke" at will as a free action. (the ancestor could. not her) whenever you choose to build around obscure damage types, people will call you a powergamer.