Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mehillus Nov 03, 2009 3:12:58	okay, last week me and my party of four were in an epic battle with the DM's most horrid thing in the dungeon....a trio of lvl 18 dragons. blocking the path to the "loot" [it was later found that aparrently this was an illusion by some evil wizard...]. our party consisted of me , a lvl 7 wizard, 2 sorcerers, and a fighter. i had an "enchanted" bag of holding [ergo, only penetrating weapons could, well , penetrate it.], and it was empty. my crazy idea was that we shoot every single one of our spells inside it as fast as we can, after which we'd turn it inside out at the dragons. the DM got p'od, and ruled that the sheer force of the number of spells we put into the bag would cause it to explode, killing us in the process [and everything in a 1 mile radius]. what do you think of it?
#2 slobo777a Nov 03, 2009 3:55:42	It looks like a lot is going on inside this game which would make any comments on the ruling pretty much redundant. It is up to the DM what happens when you try a "crazy idea" not covered by rules. I'd have probably done a more boring thing, and have the spells disipated inside the bag unless they could be physically contained and moved around like this (Cloudkill might work for instance). I'm assuming v3.5 here? In any case, seems like this game is probably a learning experience for you and the DM. It didn't end in a very satisfying way for you - or for the DM, who appears to have been exasperated by something - were you arguing about how your plan should work?  Bring on the next game, have fun!
#3 mehillus Nov 03, 2009 19:10:22	Well, Sequoia,  our female sorcerer, [in character] said this was the dumbest thing she'd heard of, but she helped out anyways [she had the highest spell rank of the 3 of us], and there was a a slight dissagreement between the players and the DM , seeing as a the version of the bag of holding i had was the one wih *infinite* space. and yes, this was 3.5
#4 Novacat Nov 04, 2009 3:05:52	Well, Sequoia,  our female sorcerer, [in character] said this was the dumbest thing she'd heard of, but she helped out anyways [she had the highest spell rank of the 3 of us], and there was a a slight dissagreement between the players and the DM , seeing as a the version of the bag of holding i had was the one wih *infinite* space. and yes, this was 3.5 1. I'm not certain what you mean by "spell rank". 2. There is no Bag of Holding with infinite space in 3.5. 3. If I were running the game, I would have the first destructive spell cast into the bag destroy it. The Bags of Holding are made to contain objects, not suspend magical energies.
#5 mehillus Nov 04, 2009 3:11:45	Well, Sequoia,  our female sorcerer, [in character] said this was the dumbest thing she'd heard of, but she helped out anyways [she had the highest spell rank of the 3 of us], and there was a a slight dissagreement between the players and the DM , seeing as a the version of the bag of holding i had was the one wih *infinite* space. and yes, this was 3.5 1. I'm not certain what you mean by "spell rank". lvl 0- lvl 1- etc. etc.
#6 nikitadarkstar Nov 04, 2009 17:06:27	Well if the DM is going to throw 3 lvl 18 dragons at a 7th level aprt, even if they're just illusions, he's going to have to accept that the party tries some crazy stuff, atleast until they know it's an illusion (Or was it the loot that was an illusion, not sure I got it right here...). But at the same time, I'd have to agree with the DM, a bag of holding is not meant to contain magical energies, it's just a bag with a pocket dimension that lets you store ALOT of stuff, thats it. So yhea crazy ideas are usually good, but some crazy ideas simply aren't unless you can find a good way to actually make it work (especially if it's really outside of the box.)
#7 thattallone Nov 06, 2009 2:37:00	Well, it really comes down to what the DM choses to rule, because we don't know how exacly the spell works it's magic, if it bends laws to archieve it's goal, ecetera. Who knows how the spells would behave inside the bag. Nonetheless, I would let the idea work, if not only because it's pretty clever and fun! I mean, that is often what makes DnD a lot of fun. When players come up with complex wicked ideas on how to archieve something.. :P
#8 beowuuf Nov 07, 2009 5:46:12	There is noting wrong with clever tactics. but game breaking clever tactics can't be good. If this was allowed, you'd have a 'win the combat' bomb whenever you want it, and precident to do insane things with the bag. The bag of holding seems to expand itself to from sack size whenever you over-fill it (if it was infinite, how could you get anything back out ever). So you are casting a spell into a dimensiom currently only as large as the sack, or the contents, up to a logical lmit of the magic. A nice DM might rule that the magic cannot cross over into the material world from that plane directly (so the bag wouldn't exlode sideways) but certainly the magic would explode back out into your face instantly from the entrance doing a cone of damage. Also, not sure how turning the bag inside out would work - surely the magic would either ensure the pocket dimension is now contaned in the insideout sack, or is temporarily shut off. Even if that worked (and I wouldn't imagine you can suddeny throw 4000 goldcon projectiles at force from inverting a bag of holding either), you would succeed in emptying the spell effects (if they were permenant) onto your equare. I would rule cloud effects (as stated) and any solid manifestations could be cast inside. You might then have been abe to do something clver with throwing the sack and wieghting the opening so it might tip its contents on the dragons. Not game breaking, would still need some more ideas to make it work (inlcuding some rolls), but would reward an interesting idea.   So yeah, don't be too harsh on a DM since DMs hate players trying to fast track enounters in ways that would create bad precidents that make puzzles and encounters boringly easy in future!
#9 josheva Nov 09, 2009 1:09:58	If my party was new, I would rule that the spells dissipate harmlessly inside the bag.  Time doesn't stop inside the bag, otherwise people would not suffocate when stored in them.  Since time doesn't stop, the spells take effect inside the bag just as they would outside the bag. If my party was not new, I would have the spells they cast damage or destroy the contents of the bag, then laugh at them for being so silly.
#10 mehillus Nov 12, 2009 0:20:15	heres my theory. [i hope this pleases those of you that say that it had a finite space]] assume that the null/hammer/meta/whatever space in the bag is like the game asteroids. you can keep walking forever, but, it has a finite space. now, if a ranged spell has a range of 20 squares, isnt that distance taken from the caster? the third, and final variable omes form the act of either turning the bag inside out, or, the attempt of filling it with spells. the dm [or player, or both collaboratively] could make a d20 risk sheet, for when the bag is opened. the only problem is calculatinf the space that the bag has. the space for the bag is usually calculated by weight, but does a fireball weigh anything? probably not. any thoughts?
#11 entropy_judge Nov 12, 2009 11:26:38	now, if a ranged spell has a range of 20 squares, isnt that distance taken from the caster? ... the only problem is calculatinf the space that the bag has. the space for the bag is usually calculated by weight, but does a fireball weigh anything? probably not. any thoughts? Or the volume within the bag, which would have done something nifty in AD&D, when Fireball was a totally awesome spell that would expand to fill 33,000 cubic feet, rupturing the bag ... but They Changed It, Now It Sucks. Of course, that also avoids the question of:  If you cast a Fireball into a Bag of Holding, won't the explosion come right back out?
#12 darksavior Nov 15, 2009 6:26:33	I am not sure I would necessarily have this plan demolish your bag of holding, the inside is a pocket dimension, so the spells might not do anything but fizzle out, unless as one poster said, it conjured something for the bag to actually hold, like cloud kill or insect swarm or a storm of vengeance or something.  Then I would let you go with it, and play it out.  Probably would be a good way to figure out that the lvl 18 dragon illusions are only illusions, I mean what did the DM expect you all were going to do when faced with 3 18th level dragons?  Run is the only sane thing, but adventurers aren't know for doing what's sane, did he have another outcome planned for?  My 2 cents.
#13 unknownatthistime Nov 16, 2009 16:58:12	any thoughts? Yes.  Are you for real?
#14 mehillus Nov 25, 2009 23:39:12	now, if a ranged spell has a range of 20 squares, isnt that distance taken from the caster? ... the only problem is calculatinf the space that the bag has. the space for the bag is usually calculated by weight, but does a fireball weigh anything? probably not. any thoughts? Or the volume within the bag, which would have done something nifty in AD&D, when Fireball was a totally awesome spell that would expand to fill 33,000 cubic feet, rupturing the bag ... but They Changed It, Now It Sucks. Of course, that also avoids the question of:  If you cast a Fireball into a Bag of Holding, won't the explosion come right back out? i was thinking of a d20 based risk chart, for whenever the bag was opened. it would also open up the possibility of simple traps.
#15 Novacat Nov 26, 2009 3:14:51	heres my theory. [i hope this pleases those of you that say that it had a finite space]] assume that the null/hammer/meta/whatever space in the bag is like the game asteroids. you can keep walking forever, but, it has a finite space. now, if a ranged spell has a range of 20 squares, isnt that distance taken from the caster? the third, and final variable omes form the act of either turning the bag inside out, or, the attempt of filling it with spells. the dm [or player, or both collaboratively] could make a d20 risk sheet, for when the bag is opened. the only problem is calculatinf the space that the bag has. the space for the bag is usually calculated by weight, but does a fireball weigh anything? probably not. any thoughts? Here's the first problem that comes to mind. Let's assume that the inside of the bag has that wrap-around spacial physics that you describe, which, mind you, isn't at all suggested or supported by the rules, but just assuming... When a wizard casts a fireball, he picks a square he can see as the center of the effect. The fireball then spontaneously, and immediately, erupts from that square. He doesn't just shoot out a projectile that's set to detonate when it gets more than X feet from the caster. That doesn't make sense at all. Basically, your plan doesn't work except when everything is construed in a very convoluted way designed specifically to make your plan succeed.
#16 mehillus Nov 26, 2009 16:50:50	Here's the first problem that comes to mind. Let's assume that the inside of the bag has that wrap-around spacial physics that you describe, which, mind you, isn't at all suggested or supported by the rules, but just assuming... When a wizard casts a fireball, he picks a square he can see as the center of the effect. The fireball then spontaneously, and immediately, erupts from that square. He doesn't just shoot out a projectile that's set to detonate when it gets more than X feet from the caster. That doesn't make sense at all. Basically, your plan doesn't work except when everything is construed in a very convoluted way designed specifically to make your plan succeed.    so....your saying that only "projectile" spells would work?
#17 Absinta Nov 26, 2009 23:56:39	I thought "Putting magic in a Bag Of Holding" was proverbial Geek-speak for "Destroy the Universe"?