Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kamanchu Nov 16, 2011 16:56:36	My DM told me there was a rule that you couldn't spend over half of your gold. Is this true? I've looked, and couldn't find anything. Does anyone have any insight on this, thanks.
#2 salla Nov 16, 2011 16:57:28	There are really no rules on what you can spend your gold on or how much of it you can spend on anything.
#3 RedSiegfried Nov 17, 2011 1:02:05	My DM told me there was a rule that you couldn't spend over half of your gold. Is this true? I've looked, and couldn't find anything. Does anyone have any insight on this, thanks.  Is he pulling your leg?  When you create a new character you can spend all the gold you start with on any mundane gear you can afford, unless your DM is doing some kind of house rules saying something isn't available for some reason.  And I can't think of any rules on what you need to spend you money on unless maybe you're playing 1st edition and you have a Paladin who has to tithe and give away all his excess gold to charity.  But in 4e, no, there are no rules on how much gold you can spend unless the DM is making some house rules or limiting the availability of items for purchase.
#4 trebor_rjf Nov 17, 2011 5:24:34	beat your dm with the phb until he lets you buy your items. he might be trying to use some kind of "max wealth level available in the region" thing but that's not something that's in any of the rulebooks.
#5 kamanchu Nov 17, 2011 7:10:39	I finally spoke with him on the issue and he said that it only would apply to a newly creates character because they haven't earned it. He said that rule was real... but I still have my doubts.
#6 pluisjen Nov 17, 2011 7:39:13	It's not a rule. And it doesn't make any sense either, especially on first level characters, who are highly unlikely to be wandering around with 50gp and being short on adventuring gear when they're about to set off on what's probably the most dangerous trip of their life.
#7 kare Nov 17, 2011 9:28:45	Hey, The starting gold is meant to represent the value of stuff you've acquired over your life up to the point where you start adventuring. Still, I wouldn't sweat it. You're probably rapidly going to acquire gold and treasure from the adventurers you will be going on that will render a few tens of GP meaningless. Yours, JMH
#8 salla Nov 17, 2011 12:41:07	I finally spoke with him on the issue and he said that it only would apply to a newly creates character because they haven't earned it. He said that rule was real... but I still have my doubts. Are his eyes brown?  Because he is THAT full of crap.
#9 RedSiegfried Nov 17, 2011 13:32:01	I finally spoke with him on the issue and he said that it only would apply to a newly creates character because they haven't earned it. He said that rule was real... but I still have my doubts. It IS a real rule if he says it is ... a house rule.  It's not a rule from any of the books though.  If you want to challenge him (maybe not a good idea since it probably isn't a big deal) ask him to show you which book and page number has that rule.  He won't be able to because it doesn't exist.  That starting gold CAN be pretty important.  If my Paladin couldn't get plate and a heavy shield and longsword at 1st level I'd feel pretty  .... vulnerable.
#10 kamanchu Nov 17, 2011 16:24:03	Now that I think about it, that rule isn't TOTAL blasphemy. Let's say, for example: you created a level 7 character and start with 8000 gold. Then you buy a +2 weapon with that money. In reality, you most likely wouldn't not spend any money from level 1 to level 8 to get a +2 weapon, you probably would buy some stuff, here and there while adventuring. Although, for the most part, I would say this rule isn't very effective/good. I think he probably found it on a homebrew page, or somewhere.
#11 ToeSama Nov 17, 2011 19:21:16	Starting as a higher level character, you get items based on an assumed acquired wealth scale. If he's trying to short change you on some of your expected item acquisitions, such a rule wouldn't even be applicable because you don't buy anything unless you want to. I don't know what his reason is, but it's not a good rule to use for any reason. Ever. At all. What good is having the money if you can't use more than half of it? Maybe if he was running some sort of credit system, but otherwise that's just silly...
#12 kelthazar Nov 17, 2011 22:28:10	Now that I think about it, that rule isn't TOTAL blasphemy. Let's say, for example: you created a level 7 character and start with 8000 gold. Then you buy a +2 weapon with that money. In reality, you most likely wouldn't not spend any money from level 1 to level 8 to get a +2 weapon, you probably would buy some stuff, here and there while adventuring. No, while you wouldnt be likey to spend money on a +2 weapon, you would find 8000 gp worth of magic items/gold. Included in this worth is a suit of armor, a weapon, and a neck item.
#13 miados Nov 17, 2011 23:31:33	they can spend their gold however they want. well at least however much they want. like for my game i have stated they will never find a magical item in store that is higher level then them. well maybe at mid epic level but since they are single digit numbers at the moment no worries about that personal rule.
#14 Cohen95 Nov 18, 2011 1:15:30	spending gold at character creation is an abstract process. You don't magically come into existence with 8000Gp and then spend it to get gear. The amount of gold you start with represents the rough value of the equipment you have earned, purchased, discovered, etc. over the course of your career as an adventurer. OP- it's very simple, ask the DM where that rule is, so you can be sure that you're aware of it for future games. When/if he admits it's a houserule, there's nothing you can ultimately do except make the same argument that starting gold is abstract and should not be restricted by the same rule. When he says it doesn't make sense that you'd spend 8,000Gp, point out it makes even less sense that you'd be wandering around with 4000Gp.
#15 DontEatRawHagis Nov 18, 2011 23:23:09	When he says it doesn't make sense that you'd spend 8,000Gp, point out it makes even less sense that you'd be wandering around with 4000Gp.  There is the idea that your not just carrying Gold after a point you carry around Platinum, which is 100 gold pieces a piece. 4000 gp = 40 pp.
#16 Cohen95 Nov 19, 2011 11:56:54	When he says it doesn't make sense that you'd spend 8,000Gp, point out it makes even less sense that you'd be wandering around with 4000Gp.  There is the idea that your not just carrying Gold after a point you carry around Platinum, which is 100 gold pieces a piece. 4000 gp = 40 pp.  The coinage is irrelevant. It makes more sense for you to have 8kGp worth of gear than to have 4kGp worth of gear and 4kGp worth of trade, in any denomination.
#17 xtimmyx Nov 19, 2011 15:39:17	i would either A: pull out the PHB and tell him to point out in the book stating this rule. B: if its a house rule, get a group vote on whether you want it to stay or not or C: Both A and B
#18 LordOfWeasels Nov 20, 2011 18:45:42	i would either A: pull out the PHB and tell him to point out in the book stating this rule. B: if its a house rule, get a group vote on whether you want it to stay or not or C: Both A and B  A:  PHB1 doesnt contain anything saying you *can* start at levels higher than 1.  Are you sure you want to do that? B:  Groups don't get to vote on house rules with anything but their feet. C:  Oh wait, it's you.  You were expecting these two exact responses.  Well, now you have them, no reason to argue further.
#19 pluisjen Nov 21, 2011 3:48:21	B:  Groups don't get to vote on house rules with anything but their feet. It's true. But groups should doing it far more liberally. It'll help weed out the bad DMs. We're in 4th Edition. There's no excuse to be a bad DM anymore, nor is there any excuse to play under one.
#20 Darkwolf_Bloodsbane Nov 21, 2011 11:32:28	Yes it does, LoW. The rules for starting at higher levels ARE in the PH, after all.
#21 LordOfWeasels Nov 21, 2011 12:05:47	Yes it does, LoW. The rules for starting at higher levels ARE in the PH, after all. If by "in the PH" you mean "NOT in the PH", then yes, you're right. Rules for starting at higher level are in DMG1, pg 143.
#22 Cohen95 Nov 21, 2011 12:34:07	It's all in the Rules Compendium, which is officially the most up-to-date and current rules source, so just use that.
#23 salla Nov 21, 2011 15:39:33	I just thought of something. When I ran 3e, when we made PCs above 1st level (which was always because 1st level PCs in that system were too fragile to consider adventurers), our group's usual (house) rule was that you couldn't spend more than half your gold only any single item.  Could that perhaps be what was meant, and there was a miscommunication somewhere?
#24 Arbitrary_Aardvark Nov 22, 2011 15:15:38	Now that I think about it, that rule isn't TOTAL blasphemy. Let's say, for example: you created a level 7 character and start with 8000 gold. Then you buy a +2 weapon with that money. In reality, you most likely wouldn't not spend any money from level 1 to level 8 to get a +2 weapon, you probably would buy some stuff, here and there while adventuring. Although, for the most part, I would say this rule isn't very effective/good. I think he probably found it on a homebrew page, or somewhere. IIRC, in 3rd, or 3.5, the idea was that you couldn't spend more than half your starting gold on your most expensive magical item, 20% on your second, and 10% on any other items. We tended to fudge that at certain levels, IIRC at 8th level half your money wasn't quite enough for a +2 weapon. In 4th edition this is handled by giving you three items, and money equal to a fourth (of a particular level. Don't want to reveal rules here.) In reality, most players spend that gold on a mix of low-level items and non-magical stuff. And the total starting wealth suggested for levels beyond 1 is still less than you are likely to have accumulated.
#25 MrCustomer Nov 26, 2011 18:09:03	What is the exact context of the DM's rule? You've given very little detail. For example, if the party is deep in a dungeon, and they have leveled and gained wealth there, but haven't had a chance to spend it yet, thus having 4,000 gp in gear and 4,000 gp in coins, and you introduce a new character, that for the sake of fairness has the same ealth as them, it would be an oversight to allow your new character to have 8,000 in gear when the rest of the party is stuck with only 4000 in gear until they finish this stretch of the adventure. The DM would be right in saying that it would be unrealistic for you to be adventuring in the same situation as the party, but somehow managed to buy 8,000 in gear from, well nowhere. Realistically in the middle of adventuring a large proportion of your emmediate wealth would be in the form of the treasure you have found and not in  equipment and gear. The other rule is the DM limiting a player on how much they can spend on any 1 item. ie you can't spend all 8000 on a weapon or other single piece of equipment, but you can spend the full ammount, just not all at once on one or two items only. Another consideration to this rule is you are starting a new character, but the rest of the party is equiped organically with a hodge podge of gear that they have collected from adventuring, this places you at a distinct advantage in being able to select the optimal gear, while everyone else is making due with what they have. This could be made worse if the party as a whole are behind in the level of wealth and gear that they should have, so he doesn't want you to spend the gold on gear until the rest of the party can also upgrade accordingly In all these cases the DM is trying to keep the party on the same footing, and rightly so. What doesn't make sense to me is the DM's reasoning of "it doesn't make sense that you'd spend 8,000Gp" if the rest of the group has done exactly that and spent 8,000Gp themselves. Which makes me think that very likely what the DM is really saying is "it doesn't make sense to allow a new character that has a distinct and unfair advantage over the rest of the party"
#26 Chiba_Monkey Nov 29, 2011 3:03:41	I just thought of something. When I ran 3e, when we made PCs above 1st level (which was always because 1st level PCs in that system were too fragile to consider adventurers), our group's usual (house) rule was that you couldn't spend more than half your gold only any single item.  Could that perhaps be what was meant, and there was a miscommunication somewhere? I'm pretty sure that's the case, Salla.  And, if I'm not mistaken, that was in the 3e DMG under the rules for characters above first level was that one could not spend more than half the starting gold on any one item.  Not a house rule.  I could be wrong. I have also used that rule in 4e, just to keep things balanced.  If I start the party @ level 11, they get one level 12, one level 11, and one level 10 magic item, and a given amount of gold (don't have books in front of me).  My house rule is to implement the 3e rule that of that gold, no more than half can be spent on a single item.  That gold, like a level 1 PC's 100gp, is meant to represent the items the character has aquired in his/her adventuring career, and should be comprised of several, smaller items.