Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mesaknight Mar 20, 2011 1:11:20	So I am running a campaign partially and loosely based on the Malazan books of the Fallen by Steven Erikson. I found the sapper characters particularly compelling, and would like to run a class loosely based on them. The character also wanted some leader-y abilities. With that in mind, I took a rogue, stripped it of all class features/powers, and instituted this: Sapper Class Feature Sappers are the grenadiers of the Malazan Empire. They alone are gifted with the ability and knowledge needed to use Moranth Munitions. They are resourceful with all types of mechanical contraptions and are used to explosions and mayhem. Sappers do not have encounter and daily powers. Instead, they carry a large yet finite supply of Moranth Munitions. A Sapper automatically passes all Handle Grenade checks.He gains training in the Engineering skill. A Sapper gains +1 Fortitude. Medic Class Feature Keeps two medpacks ready at all times, can lob one up to 5 squares as a minor action. Healing surge + 1d6 Feat can increase this to 3 medpacks per encounter Grenades Mornath munitions are incredibly volatile and dangerous, but when used by an experienced sapper theyare incredibly effective. Grenades require a Handle Grenade check to use. This is a straight Dexterity check with a DC of 15. If the character attempting to use a grenade fails this check, roll a Saving Throw. A success means the character is able to throw the grenade away before it detonates, GM's discretion where it lands. A fail means the grenade detonates in the character's square, resolve as normal. Moranth Munitions are primarily designed to be attached to a crossbow bolt and fired at an enemy.Upon striking a target (or the ground) the grenade will detonate. The effects are dependent on the type of grenade fired. Firing a Grenade Attaching a grenade to a bolt is a move action. Pick a target (or target square) and roll an attack. To hita square is always DC 15. Hitting a enemy with a grenade usually results in extra damage, but is moredifficult. The range increments for a grenade-bolt: Within 5 squares +0 6 – 10 square s-2 11 – 15 squares -5 16 – 20 squares -10 It is difficult to hit with a grenade, but a miss can be just as deadly. If you hit the Target's AC, the grenade detonates against the target and they suffer an additional 1d8+Dex damage (representing the crossbow bolt). If the shot misses the AC but still hits the Square (DC15) then the grenade detonates at the target's feet, saving throw for half damage If the shot misses the square, the bolt will scatter. Roll a d8, the number will indicate the direction of scatter. The shot will deviate one square or more, depending on the severity of the miss: 13 - 14 to hit   1 Square 10 – 12 to hit  2 Squares 8 - 9 to hit       3 Squares 6 – 7 to hit      4 Squares 4 – 5 to hit      5 Squares 2 – 3 to hit      6 Squares 1 or less          GM's discretion (heh heh) Grenade Types Sharper – Burst 2, 2d6 + 4, slowed Flamer – Burst 2, 1d6 + 2, Ongoing 5 Fire Cracker – 1 square, 1d6 + 3. If target is hit, 4d6 + 6, permanently lowers AC by d6 Smoker – burst 3, squares are concealed until end of encounter Cusser – Burst 3, -2 to hit, 3d10 + 5, pushed 1 from center, saving throw or knocked prone. Using a standard action to 'ready himself' in the previous turn will negate the -2 penalty from the Cusser. This is set for 1st level, my thought was to add encounter and daily powers based on specialty actions with grenades later on.  Given a finite quantity of munitions, what do you all think? Balanced? Awful? Unnecessary?
#2 Mad_Jack Mar 20, 2011 5:07:43	My personal sugestion would be to start with the Artificer class and tweak it by adding more offensive capability, since it already has leader abilities.
#3 David_B Mar 20, 2011 5:21:24	I haven't come across these books, but the class concept sounds intriguing. However, I feel the class may be flawed in that it works so differently to other classes. Having to spend a move action to prepare an attack effectively means that the character is rooted in one spot during combat - it gets even worse if the character isn't using a load-free weapon. Each turn becomes move - prepare grenade, minor - load weapon, standard - attack. Why not have the grenades already prepared and skip the 'move action to prep the weapon' part? Damage on a miss - my reading of this is that it makes every attack better than a daily power. On an at will or encounter power a missed attack does no damage, a missed daily normally does half damage. On these attacks, a missed attack has a 55% chance of doing full damage. Targeting other squares on a miss - I understand the logic you gave here, but coupled.with the burst damage it makes the accuracy of the character tremendous. With a burst 2 grenade, if I target a creatures square, I will hit it if I have a total attack of 10 or more. If a character has an attack bonus of 5, the target will be in the blast zone on a roll of 5+ ie 80% of the time. Damage - some the figures below seem very high for a level 1 attack, 3d10 + 5 is a huge amount of damage for a.single target. On a burst 3 attack it could wipe out a large proportion of a monster party in a single attack. Multiple roles - it seems like this character fills the leader role and controller role as well as being probably the most accurate and damaging striker out there. Verdict - although I like the concept, I think these mechanics are seriously unbalanced. I wonder if you are better off taking an existing build (maybe war wizard) and just refluffing it.
#4 salla Mar 20, 2011 8:02:57	My personal sugestion would be to start with the Artificer class and tweak it by adding more offensive capability, since it already has leader abilities. Ditto.  Or take most any character and take Alchemist and have them chuck alchemical items for 'grenades'.
#5 Evil_Rabbit101 Mar 20, 2011 23:34:00	Isn't the malazan books based on Erikson's home campaign for which he used GURPS? Personally I would go with Mad_Jack's suggestion and start with the artificer class. The sappers seem more like artificers to me. They do act like rogues though... as in they have roguish personalities.
#6 Mad_Jack Mar 22, 2011 20:09:59	Isn't the malazan books based on Erikson's home campaign for which he used GURPS?  Yup. (And I'd love to see Steve Jackson games get together with him and Ian Esselmont to release a setting book for it...)  A whole lot of the artificer powers can be fluffed as being the result of throwing different types of munitions, and artificers can take the Crossbow Caster feat to use a crossbow as an implement, which is perfect for the sappers...
#7 Evil_Rabbit101 Mar 22, 2011 23:07:03	Isn't the malazan books based on Erikson's home campaign for which he used GURPS?  Yup. (And I'd love to see Steve Jackson games get together with him and Ian Esselmont to release a setting book for it...)  A whole lot of the artificer powers can be fluffed as being the result of throwing different types of munitions, and artificers can take the Crossbow Caster feat to use a crossbow as an implement, which is perfect for the sappers... I would love to see a campaign setting for the Malazan books. That would be a huge setting. Hell, whoever made it would probably have to publish sevral books. That's why I would rather Steve Jackson games do it than WoTC. I haven't liked the campaign settings they have put out lately. Not a lot of details (which would be totally against the setting design of Erickson).
#8 Mad_Jack Mar 23, 2011 19:17:43	To be honest, I don't think you could do that world as a 4E campaign - the magic system is far too different and complex to be recreated by 4E...
#9 Evil_Rabbit101 Mar 24, 2011 7:23:42	That is true. Also, the 4e system took out the player's ability to predict future events (I may be wrong) whick kind of defeats the purpose of the deck of dragons. I'm not sure how well the warrens would match up with the 4E cosmology. The history of the planes would also be a mess.
#10 Mad_Jack Mar 24, 2011 19:43:03	You'd just completely replace the standard 4E cosmology with the one from the setting. Since the different warrens of magic vaguely correspond to the previous-editions' schools of magic (and the GURPS system's magic skills), as well as being their own demiplanes in D&D terms, the cosmology would essentially be partially based on the schools of magic rather than on alignment as it was in previous editions of D&D. Then you'd have to throw in a few "planes" that were actually alternate campaign worlds in order to represent the various places that the people not entirely native to the main world of the books migrated from over the eons. The Deck of Dragons would most likely be entirely a campaign plot device, although you could theoretically run a reading of the deck as an Arcana-based skill challenge to gather information, or I think you could probably create a feat to use Arcana in place of other skills such as History, Religion, and Streetwise. You could also just use a deck of dragons as a simple tool (like a climber's kit) to give you a bonus to arcana checks.