In a current campaign, the party of 8 (If you've read my other posts, you know them well) have recently been struggling against a Half-Fiend boss, Tanaris of Baator. Tanaris is a CR 13 Monster (This is 3.5), a Half-Fiend Human with Class Levels. He gets 6 Attacks a round (Two-Weapon Fighting) and has SR and a Decent AC. My party are probably going to get killed if they try and take the encounter seriously (Or, a large number of them will be finished off). For the health and wellbeing of the party, I'm probably going to make another floor for them, so I can push him back further. In this floor, I wanted to incorporate the concept of a "Great Sacrifice".
The idea is basically the party nears the end of the floor and finds an item of some great power (Probably the strongest introduced as of yet, like a +4 Equivalent Weapon or something). The catch is, to obtain it and advance to where Tanaris is, the party must sacrifice one of their own
He/She will not actually die, more it is a test by the gods to see a worthy soul, and reward him as such. The sacrifice may be from drinking poisonous (Or so they think) water, being immersed in lava (They are in Baator) or something similiar.
I have two things that require addressing:
1.Is this the right thing to do? There are certain players I would like to receive the item more than others, but I really like the idea of a noble sacrifice becoming an "Enlightened One of the Gods" and gaining like a good weapon (And maybe even a lot of XP), but is it unfair to the rest?
2.Suggestions for a test would be helpful.
Thanks all
Player sacrifice is bollocks when the DM demands it, particularly if it's at any except the most momentous points in the campaign. It's asking someone to deliberately give up a character they're attached to, and they'll hate you for it with a passion.
The way to do this kind of encounter, if you feel you must - and seriously, only use it for your story climaxes, and only once you've got some characters who've finished their character arcs and are moving towards this kind of finale - is to create a fight that can be won either with or without sacrifice. Have them fight, and then just lean on them to make it look like they're just not succeeding without sacrifice.
At this point, you might see some of your players with a speculative look, like, "Maybe I'm going to need to make that sacrifice". If you see that look, keep leaning, and have someone give themselves up. If you don't get that look, and players just look frustrated, back the hell off and forget about your sacrifice idea, you're in danger of losing players.
EDIT: Also, this belongs in the DM forum, not the player forum.
As I said, they are not actually going to lose their character. They're character will temporarily be thought deceased, then, during the battle, BAM!
The character makes a return as the probable savior of the battle, everyone is happy, everyone just completed a quest, got an important item, and nobody (Well, not through my force) died. So to solve a puzzle to obtain an item that will better defeat the demon, one of a noble heart must sacrifice his own life for the greater good.
Sacrifices are good for when the situation is dire and it is going to be a TPK and one character tells the others to run and they will stay and hold the bad guys back long enough for them to get away, or snap that wand in half
etc. Which makes for epic memorable moments.But if you present a party with a sword of awesomeness at the bottom of a pool of lava, then they'll spend an exurbanite amount of time trying to get it without the sacrifice or just ignore it.
If you are worried the players are not ready for the big bad guy yet, increase the level of difficulty of the last few fights. So that the players only just survive and if they go on, they know they will not make it. This lets the BBEG get away so the players can fight another day. Just makes hints from the NPCs that what he is doing to the party is nothing to what BBEG will do to them.. If the PCs don't take the hint, well after you kill them you can say, I was trying to warn you....
And if the only way to win is for someone to die / appear to die well poo
Makes that farmer's life a lot more interesting....As I said, they are not actually going to lose their character. They're character will temporarily be thought deceased, then, during the battle, BAM!
The character makes a return as the probable savior of the battle, everyone is happy, everyone just completed a quest, got an important item, and nobody (Well, not through my force) died.
Sorry, first time around I completely missed the word "not" before "actually die". Are you sure you didn't edit? :-)
Okay, in that case I only have one objection. This kind of "gotcha" false-sacrifice is going to come back and haunt you later. You're going to get a player who thinks that another, later encounter is a false sacrifice when it isn't. He's going to get himself killed, thinking it's all a fake-out, and then be angry when he finds out he's really dead.
If you ask players to throw their life into your hands once, you're committing to catching them every time, and that's maybe not something you want to do.
This is more what I had in mind:
"The party encounters a dark and sinister looking obelisk towering over a pool of sparkling, crystal clear water. Nothing appears to be moving in the room, but the Obelisk does have an inscription on it.
Party Member 1 (NG Cleric)-I'll go up and read it
Me-OK, (Passes note that says the following:
"To rid the world of such great evil,
You must cleanse yourself of that which you would destroy,
Drink from the pool, make peace with your gods,
But be warned, for this is not the end of the ploy,
For your life will be in the hands of your faith,
Ended or no, is the question which shall await
Those who decide to be true heroes of their time
And drink from the Fountain of Holy Fate"
Now, I don't want to make it obvious that they will come back or be ok. In this scenario, for example, the Cleric will have to leave their fate to their deity (Who, so long as they are faithful, will be fine. If they drink the water for personal gain, then they will stay dead but the puzzle will be overcome). Does this seem fair?
Sorry, first time around I completely missed the word "not" before "actually die". Are you sure you didn't edit? :-)
Okay, in that case I only have one objection. This kind of "gotcha" false-sacrifice is going to come back and haunt you later. You're going to get a player who thinks that another, later encounter is a false sacrifice when it isn't. He's going to get himself killed, thinking it's all a fake-out, and then be angry when he finds out he's really dead.
If you ask players to throw their life into your hands once, you're committing to catching them every time, and that's maybe not something you want to do.
I have no intention of throwing another "Hey look, sacrificial lamb time" at them. I will make it OBVIOUS that there is no sacrifice to be had if it comes up in the future.
I have no intention of throwing another "Hey look, sacrificial lamb time" at them. I will make it OBVIOUS that there is no sacrifice to be had if it comes up in the future.
You'll find that players have a very different idea of "obvious" than what you have in mind. A palpable aura of imminent death? Clearly an enchantment to befuddle the weak minded. Blinking neon sign that says "Not A Fake Sacrifice"? A cunning lie left by some mad wizard. DM explicitly saying, "Hey, this is not a false sacrifice, you will actually die?" Clearly just a ploy to make our eventual death-and-resurrection more awesome.
Players live by the creed of, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." After they've fallen through one illusory floor, they will test every floor they ever encounter from that point onwards, no matter how strenuosly you encourage them not to. Once they've been betrayed by one apparently friendly NPC, they'll never trust a DM-introduced character again. And once you cheat them out of their deliberate decision to end their own character's life they will regard themselves as invincible forever.
(And you, as DM, know that this time, that slim chance is precisely 0)
My first attempt at forcing a sacrifice backfired spectacularly... The PC's came to a bridge, where a creepy-looking eyeless baby sat, staring at them. It said, "To cross this bridge is to sacrifice innocence." The Lawful Stupid paladin said "It appears we must sacrifice this innocent child to pass. It is for the greater good!" And promptly lopped the baby's head off.
Nothing happened. The Paladin then said "Hm, clearly that was not an innocent child. Very well, I shall sacrifice myself, as I am OBVIOUSLY the purest of the group." And committed suicide right there, despite everyone's objections. The fighter quipped "Here lieth our psychotic baby-slaying knight, who had only just begun to grasp the subtleties of the English language."
Because, actually, it was once they CROSSED the bridge that they would be tested, and someone was supposed to sacrifice themselves. Nothing, and I repeat, NOTHING was stopping them from crossing the bridge. Sigh.