My DM loved the book, The Art of War, and much of his campaign has reflected that. I however, do not know much in leading large army across the field of battle “even though I find it fun.”
Anyway, my army has
500 samurai soldiers (200 men on horses, and 300 armored samurai on foot)
100 archers
30 spell casting Shugenja. Complete Divine and OA spells “up to level 2 spells”
2 Heroic NPC character “2 of my captains are considered hero classes, one being a type of archer, who leads the archer, the other is a Lawful good samurai, who is directly under my command.” I believe they are just there for name sake.
1 comedy relief “heroic” Lawful stupid NPC “Generally the DM uses him to produce laugh, and he seems immune to death, but I don’t except much help from him”
1 heroic player character “another player is in my army, he is a ranger(5)/aburjant champion(4)/Wujen(1) who has access to level 3 Wujen spells LIKE FIREBALL” Who at some point got a Wyvern as a familiar because the DM thought it would be awesome. He knows it is illegal, but he allowed it, and he can ride it with no major penalties. He picked the archery path.”
And me A level 1 samurai/ 4 shaman/ sword sage 2/Sacred fist 3 I have access up to level 4 “players handbook 1 only” cleric spells, as well Oriental adventure shaman spells. My domains are War and travel.
My army has arrived at the bottom of a rather large hilly region. I need to get through to reach the enemy’s base. They have set traps in this region, filled with their enemy units. I am at the bottom base of a large hill, while they are near the top, hidden in plant cover they probably made with plant growth spell. I do not know how many people are hidden in cover. I just know there are many when I scouted the area “invisible and flying” with my scent ability.
Their army’s spellcasters can cast so far dispel magic “at least level 3, as they tried it on me”. My spell caster army can only cast level 2 spells, and they can’t use fire spells. Both armies have “unlimited uses” of spells per day. Player characters are restricted to their daily uses.
How should I attack them? How should I lure them out? What spells would be good in this situation. Should I avoid them entirely and risk wasting a day. I need to get to their fortress around the same time the other army’s arrive.
I scouted the area “invisible and flying” with my scent ability.
I don't see how you flying affects how you track or trace things by scent. If you were flying to any degree of decent height where you couldn't see the base itself, even minimal winds would blow any scents away... unless they are very smelly ogres or something.
Anyways, I would suggest trying to burn them out; but since you 'picked up their scent', that means they're upwind of you, so any fire would come back towards you, and away from them.
I would highly advise that you do not stay in the lower area. You'll be easy targets for their targets.
Now... how hilly is this place? Another player in your party made a post (here) saying the fortress has 80 foot walls. How can you not see THAT in a pile of plants? Maybe set the plants around the base on fire?
As for useful spells... I'm not sure what spells Shugenja have... Do they have Fog Cloud? If so, you could use multiple ones of those to mask your army's approach (They'd just have to march in 4 rows, as the area is only 20ftx20ft).
OH! And about how to get past all the traps... send the DM's beloved comedy relief in first. The DM won't kill him, so why not let the fool set off all the traps. It'll be fun for everyone! The DM will get his toy and you will get your way cleared.
I am in a different spot. At least a day or two from getting to the castle.
The DM said the hills where miles in length....... So lets say I'm at the bottom of a mountain...... will hills on it. I probably should have asked a better description.
I actually don't know what the traps are. I just know there is a rather large army of people, waiting behind bushes for me to pass through.
Yes, I did think fire as well. I attempted to create some fire but the casters used the spell create water to put out the fire "I could not see them while they where doing this for some strange reason". HOWEVER, a few fireballs might change their tone. None of my shugenja can use Fire spells though. The only person who can do a fireball is the wujen/ranger and he only can cast it twice a day. The Shugenja specialize in water. My DM seemed to pick that out for some strange reason.
Yes, they do have fog cloud. Here is a list.
I believe the enemies casters will do mass dispell magic on any ongoing area of effect spell I attempt, but it still a good idea none the less.
1st level spells
Air
Detect Snares and Pits: Reveals natural or primitive traps.
Disguise Self: Changes your appearance.
Expeditious Retreat: Your speed increases by 30 ft.
Feather Fall: Objects or creatures fall slowly.
Silent Image: Creates minor illusion of your design.
Sleep: Puts 4 HD of creatures into magical slumber.
Earth
Magic Stone: Three stones gain +1 on attack, deal 1d6+1 damage.
Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus.
Pass Without Trace: One subject/level leaves no track.
Sanctuary: Opponents can’t attack you, and you can’t attack.
Shield of Faith: Aura grants +2 or higher defl ection bonus.
Water
Speak with Animals: You can communicate with animals.
Bless: Allies gain +1 on attack rolls and saves against fear.
Cure Light Wounds: Cures 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).
Obscuring Mist: Fog surrounds you.
Remove Fear: Suppresses fear or gives +4 on saves against fear for one subject + one per four levels.
All
Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
2nd level spells
Air
Detect Thoughts: Allows “listening” to surface thoughts.
Levitate: Subject moves up and down at your direction.
Minor Image: As silent image, plus some sound.
Silence: Negates sound in 15 ft. radius
Color Spray: Knocks unconscious, blinds, and/or stuns 1d6 weak creatures.
Earth
Barkskin: Grants +2 (or higher) enhancement to natural armor.
Bear’s Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
Bull’s Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./ level.
Hold Person: Paralyzes one humanoid for 1 round/level.
Make Whole: Repairs an object.
Glitterdust: Blinds creatures, outlines invisible creatures.
Water
Fog Cloud: Fog obscures vision.
Cure Moderate Wounds: Cures 2d8 damage +1 level (max +10).
Delay Poison: Stops poison from harming subject for 1 hour/level.
Lesser Restoration: Dispels magical ability penalty or repairs 1d4 ability damage.
Locate Object: Senses direction toward object (specifi c or type).
Remove Paralysis: Frees one or more creatures from paralysis or slow effect.
All Resist Energy: Ignores 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specifi ed energy type.
My next idea would be to ask the DM if there are any animals around. Deer, small birds, mice, ferrets, moles, raccoons, squirrels; whatever. If yes, then cast Speak with Animals, and ask them for the location of nearby 'other men', or the base of the 'other men'; or even ask them the locations of the traps (they'd have to know where to avoid, or get trapped in them, themselves). Make a deal with the animals. You give them food if they tell you what they want.
Next tactice... use Detect Thoughts. It's a cone shape of 60 feet. Have some soldiers start a fire ahead of you, then figure out a formation to get the casters to have a full spread aimed around the fire, as so no casters overlap each other's cones. By the 2nd round of Detect Thoughts, each caster should know if anything they targeted was a caster or an animal; at that point, just charge into the cone area that caster had. This trick has to work by pure math since the range on Create Water is less than Detect Thoughts. That, or you get the fire you wanted.
....and as for avoiding the traps... you have Detect Pitfall and Snares. But... the wording in its spell confuses me a bit; plus you wouldn't know how "mechanically complex" some of the traps could be.
Last resort would be Locate Object. Try sensing the location of anything the enemy would have on them... even something basic as "clothing". The spell description denotes "apparel", just Locate Object as clothes. The enemy casters aren't going to be hiding out in the woods with Silent Spell Create Water, while completely naked on the random chance you guys MIGHT have decided to burn the forest down. (Clearly you must be in a forest, or what else could the casters be hiding behind)
Create Water has a range of 25+5/2 feet/level. As well as having verbal and semantic components. It should be easy detecting the casters (Unless the DM counters that they did a Silent Spell with it :rolleyes
My next idea would be to ask the DM if there are any animals around. Deer, small birds, mice, ferrets, moles, raccoons, squirrels; whatever. If yes, then cast Speak with Animals, and ask them for the location of nearby 'other men', or the base of the 'other men'; or even ask them the locations of the traps (they'd have to know where to avoid, or get trapped in them, themselves). Make a deal with the animals. You give them food if they tell you what they want.
Next tactice... use Detect Thoughts. It's a cone shape of 60 feet. Have some soldiers start a fire ahead of you, then figure out a formation to get the casters to have a full spread aimed around the fire, as so no casters overlap each other's cones. By the 2nd round of Detect Thoughts, each caster should know if anything they targeted was a caster or an animal; at that point, just charge into the cone area that caster had. This trick has to work by pure math since the range on Create Water is less than Detect Thoughts. That, or you get the fire you wanted.
....and as for avoiding the traps... you have Detect Pitfall and Snares. But... the wording in its spell confuses me a bit; plus you wouldn't know how "mechanically complex" some of the traps could be.
Last resort would be Locate Object. Try sensing the location of anything the enemy would have on them... even something basic as "clothing". The spell description denotes "apparel", just Locate Object as clothes. The enemy casters aren't going to be hiding out in the woods with Silent Spell Create Water, while completely naked on the random chance you guys MIGHT have decided to burn the forest down. (Clearly you must be in a forest, or what else could the casters be hiding behind)
Well, apparently they where whispering the spells. I have just informed him "as well as learned" that you cant whisper spells. So the next time they will probably yell the spell.
Now my DM take into account the int 2 with animals. For example, when ever I try to communicate with my bird (int 2 wis 15 cha 10) He will sound like this. "Caw People around, Caw, bad people, caw, look like people." I'm sure I could ask them simple things though. Like, where did you see areas that are not natural, or the "other men" question.
That Detect thought grid is a very nice idea, pitfall and snare will, good good. Locate object, very nice.
What about levitation? Would a mass levitation be useful?
Silent Image, with maybe a few silent spells going off? Would that be nifty?
Mixed with some Expeditious retreat?
would glitter dust help in this situation, or does that only apply to invisible people, not hidden.
I can use up to level 4 cleric spells (PHBI only) "although they are limited to my spells per days" and my domains are travel, and war. Any single trick my character can do?
My army has arrived at the bottom of a rather large hilly region. I need to get through to reach the enemy’s base. They have set traps in this region, filled with their enemy units. I am at the bottom base of a large hill, while they are near the top, hidden in plant cover they probably made with plant growth spell. I do not know how many people are hidden in cover. I just know there are many when I scouted the area “invisible and flying” with my scent ability.
How should I attack them? How should I lure them out? What spells would be good in this situation. Should I avoid them entirely and risk wasting a day?
That is a horrible place to try to attack. You have 634 guys with you - they could have only a hundred men (say 90 Archers and 10 M-U), and in that setup, they'd probably take out a good number of your foot and archer contingnents. Your best shot, in my opinion, would be to send your "Heroic PC" underling off on his wyvern to contact the the third character and say you're going to search for another way around, because without some decent long-range (and/or AoE) Fire spells, you're going to be mauled at the very best if you try to go into their teeth. Heck, I'd be leery of trying to go up there even if it's just 50 Archer-types.
However ... I'll try to remember some stuff that might help you.
Now my DM take into account the int 2 with animals.
That's alright, just ask very specific questions that are easily answered: Are there any easily-identified standards? Are they concentrated in any areas (and if so, where)? Do they have any weapons (birds should be aware of bows, at least)? Do any of the men have shiny things?
Also keep in mind that you can use the animals as bait/distractions: depending on the size of your illusion spells, you can make some pretty nice contingents based around a few squirrels or raccoons ... and if you can convince the local raptors to interfere with the other side when you attack, that'll be worth something too.
What about levitation?
The problem with levitation is that it only provides for vertical movement - in order to move horizontally, you need some kind of external stimulus (Gust of Wind, for example) - and pushing off a tree probably won't get you far enough, and you're going to be a great big target.
would glitter dust help in this situation, or does that only apply to invisible people, not hidden.
A cloud of golden particles covers everyone and everything in the area, causing creatures to become blinded and visibly outlining invisible things for the duration of the spell. All within the area are covered by the dust, which cannot be removed and continues to sparkle until it fades.
Any creature covered by the dust takes a -40 penalty on Hide checks.
If you can get a few casters close enough to use it, you can A) learn where everyone is, B) negate any ability to hide, and C) reduce their ability to hit you. Yes, it could help quite a bit.
I can use up to level 4 cleric spells
Going by the SRD ...
Lesser Planar Ally/Summon Monster 4: The former allows you to call an Elemental (Fire?), the latter a Lantern Archon - both can be useful.
Silence can be useful, both to disrupt enemy orders and to confound spellcasters.
The best way to deal whit it are avoiding it entirely or play unconventional warfare.
I have some question:
- Is mandatory for you to move across that stupid hill? can't you go around it and avoid the wood and the traps?
- Indirect knowledge: who lead the enemies on the field? What tactics is he/she famous to employ often? Have it some weak spot, like alcohol or women/men, love for charges, etc?
- Can you corrupt the enemy leader, or anyway force his hand, like kidnapping his daughter?
- How do they eat? What about poisoning rivers and/or stop the supply lines both for food and spell components?
- Can you somehow put them under siege and break their morale? After time traps break by absent maintenance.
Last, various suggestions:
- If you put them under siege, play strong. Show puppets to augment your apparent number, overfeed your sentinels and scouts to make them happy in case of kidnapping, show that you have all the time in the world and own all of the commodity. After a time, offer full work and kindness for their family in your army to enemy who desert in your favor.
- If you choose to move away, send forward groups to prepare the terrain for the battle. When you leave, do it in hurry, show fear of your enemy. Try to be followed whitout give time to them to be really prepared for when you turn to fight in a better place.
- If everything is unapplicable, diplomacy. What do they wish? Can you buy your passage or their work?
However, if 50 men could easily defeat my forces.....
Knowing the Art of War, the old sage would say: go away. It's an impossible battle. 50 men can easily handle your army and win whit any decent commander at their lead.
The best way to deal whit it are avoiding it entirely or play unconventional warfare.
I have some question:
- Is mandatory for you to move across that stupid hill? can't you go around it and avoid the wood and the traps?
- Indirect knowledge: who lead the enemies on the field? What tactics is he/she famous to employ often? Have it some weak spot, like alcohol or women/men, love for charges, etc?
- Can you corrupt the enemy leader, or anyway force his hand, like kidnapping his daughter?
- How do they eat? What about poisoning rivers and/or stop the supply lines both for food and spell components?
- Can you somehow put them under siege and break their morale? After time traps break by absent maintenance.
My army is trying to get to their main fortress in time with the other forces. Time delayed could end badly.
Mandatory? Well, it is the fastest route. However, I could take an extra day to go around it. I have no idea whats on the other path, but I do know there is no large plant growth ambush. "Maybe a rockslide ambush, avalanche, it is winter time."
My DM has told us that the entire army is being led by a former player character turned npc. The current enemy unit I'm fighting is part of that army "but doesn't have anyone important. Just nameless npcs." However my DM has told us that they would think and react like a "player would". He trained his soldiers well. Since the former player was so powerful. "We hit epic level the last campaign." Technically, the player playing the character "sadly he is nolonger playing with us." Was very good at this as well. For all purposes, he was incorruptible, as he only believed in power he earned. I'm not sure about his troops, but so far they seemed 100% loyal.
My character does not know much about the enemy leader, so he would not know such things. For the most part, after his "deeds" (which would be are last campaign) he raised an army, and set force to conqueror. We just happen to be one of the nations he wants to conqueror with our new characters.
They eat and sleep by secret merchant supply lines. My character know they exist, but do not know where. Also, theses forces hidden in the woods probably won't move any time soon/
My archers all have fire arrow enchantment. We could fire at the forest, but we would have to enter their range to do it. Maybe rolling off cloud cover?
Last, various suggestions:
- If you put them under siege, play strong. Show puppets to augment your apparent number, overfeed your sentinels and scouts to make them happy in case of kidnapping, show that you have all the time in the world and own all of the commodity. After a time, offer full work and kindness for their family in your army to enemy who desert in your favor.
- If you choose to move away, send forward groups to prepare the terrain for the battle. When you leave, do it in hurry, show fear of your enemy. Try to be followed whitout give time to them to be really prepared for when you turn to fight in a better place.
- If everything is unapplicable, diplomacy. What do they wish? Can you buy your passage or their work?
Diplomacy seems very unlikely. I do not think they will chase after me, but that could work. For the most part, my soldiers seem pretty happy with me, but i could do that. So best be would be to take the alternate, non ambush path then?
The other player character I have with me can cast up to level 3 wujen spells, like fireball. "Complete Arcane" but I'm not sure how some spells of his work. Like this one.
FIERY EYES
Evocation [Fire]
Level: Wu jen 1 (fire)
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 minute
Saving Throw: Reflex special; see text
This spell causes your eyes to glow with an unnatural fire whose color you determine (from dull red to brilliant yellow), projecting beams of bright light that clearly illuminate a 5-foot-square area to a range of 5 feet. By fixing your sight on one spot within 60 feet as a full-round action, you can cause combustible materials to burst into flames, and though you cannot target living creatures with this effect, creatures carrying or wearing items you ignite take 1d6 points of fire damage and must make a DC 15 Reflex save or catch on fire themselves.
Could he do that invisible, and not get seen? Would Detect magic give him away? I could cast fly on him.
The DM also mentioned that the one advantage we do have in this situation, is that I have two "heroic players" on my side. Since the enemy unit makes up of most npcs "custom made npc" but they are still techincally much weaker then me and the other player. Although I fail to see how that matters when dealing with numbers like this. Now if I was level 20 on the other hand.....
Even then, attacking in this situation is not a good idea. Partly because it would probably be costly no matter what, but more fundamentally because the enemy is trying to dictate the circumstances of the battle to you, and you should not let that happen. Your greatest advantage is that by taking a strongly defensive position, they have surrendered the immediate initiative to you, so make the best use of that.
The first thing to consider is whether it's necessary to fight this enemy at all. Your strategic goal is to get to the enemy fortress, so this enemy is just a delaying force. And even if you attack and win, they can still in a sense "defeat" you by doing enough damage to your own force that it'll be less effective in the more important fight later on. So if you believe you can safely bypass the position entirely, do so.
If that's not an option, you should try to draw the enemy out of their position so the fight will happen on your conditions. One way to do that is to attack anything in the vicinity that might be valuable to the enemy - towns, economic resources, things like that. Try to find something that they have to defend and start setting fire to it.
If there's nothing of that either, use deception to draw them out. Pretend that you're going to do something really, really stupid that offers them a huge advantage. Split up your forces. Try to go around them through terrain that offers easy opportunities for ambushes, then counter-ambush them in turn. Stage a huge, public argument among your senior commanders. Make your troops seem sloppy and disillusioned, and prone to desertion. And so forth - don't overdo it, but make it seem like your force is really weak and offer them an easy victory.
Finally, I'd suggest reading through The Art of War if you haven't already. It's pretty short and quite interesting, once you get into the somewhat different mindset.
Lasts session as actually very quick due to circumstance. So it ended up only moving the ecounter up by a little.
Anyway, so my wujen friend and I where able to get off a few nice fires that started burning 1/4 of the plant growth area. The enemy retreated up the snowy hill/mountrain "he says its a hill, but at this point I'm calling it an mountain."
I was able to have 50 archer position above them with 5 shugenjas in the air. "The DM said I could drag them up thier with levitation and the dragon, so I did." From there they rained down fire arrows. "Appearntly all of my archers had fire arrow enchantments."
For the most part, I was able to push them back with minimal loses. "I actually don't know, my DM won't tell me until next session if I actually lost a few or a lot."
My question now is. Should I chase them up the hill? Should I let them go and regroup my men? I have a feeling chasing after them up hill seems like a very bad idea, even with expedious retreat on all my horse men. "My DM does not seem to take that spell into account, ever."
Do you have enough troops to start a siege? I mean, can you surround all the various exits of that hill, and wait for them to run out of supplies while having fresh supplies of your own? If the answer is "yes" and you can afford to have have a reaaaaally drawn-out battle on your timetable, by all means you should start a siege. By the looks of it, you don't have the time nor the number of troops needed.
If not, can you lure them out of their position? Maybe feign a sudden retreat or withdrawal, thus making it look like you are more vulnerable to attack. Hiding troops, putting out torch lights every night (thus conveying the message that your troops are abandoning you, since there are less torches), or even withdrawing your troops up to some point and stage an ambush can make this happen.
Take note also of the territory. Are you in hostile or friendly territory? Maybe you can withdraw, raze a village or two, if your alignment allows it, and draw them out from their position. A village would provide supplies to your forces and would decrease the enemy's morale if you razed it brutally (a.k.a. Gengis Khan style). Pile enemy skulls everywhere. Kill the men, women and children. Or take these civilians and use them as human shields. Arm them forcefully and make them go against the enemy. Things like that. Remeber that all is fair in love and war. Especially in war.
Best bet: do not engage the enemy if they are in a good position. Withdraw your troops. Let them follow you, and engage them in a more favorable terrain. If they won't follow you, it's their fortress you'll be attacking anyway.
Also found out how much snow there is.
If it's a mountain with lots of snow, do some math with levitate/fly and craft a/some bomb(s)... then fly to the top of the mountain, toss the bomb(s) down this newly designated mountain to cause some avalanches. If you're lucky, you could bury the base.
Note: This might kill your ninja spy friend who is in the base along with the enemy's army. But if it is in the name of your empire, he will have died with honor! *
*His opinion may vary on this death.
Note: This might kill your ninja spy friend who is in the base along with the enemy's army. But if it is in the name of your empire, he will have died with honor! *
*His opinion may vary on this death.
Dead people don't usually complain.
Dead people don't usually complain.
And to that I retaliate with:
And even if they do manage to regroup and pursue you, you'll still have the initiative - then you'll have the choice whether to turn around and offer them battle again, and this time it'll be in a position of your choice.