Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 keytap Jun 11, 2009 13:26:01	While playing through a Dragonlance campaign, our group has come across four very, very large starmetal chains that were used to keep an ancient dragon skull suspended in a room. (Starmetal is similar to adamantine in almost all aspects) Now we didn't think about it for a while, but while we were updating our gear and whatnot, we decided to sell the chains. After working out the math, this comes to anywhere between 2 and 4 million stl (Dragonlance uses steel and not gold). We're 18-19th level, and I know that a group this level could get their hands on that kind of money, but generally we play a low-magic campaign where we don't just have money pouring out of every orifice. This is obviously more than the DM intended us to get. So I want to spend the money on something not gimmicky. I don't want to go buy out the Tower of High Sorcery's collection of tomes and manuals, or anything like that. I understand the DM's plight, but it wasn't anything that any of us thought of until just recently.
#2 mobar2008 Jun 11, 2009 13:44:39	What kind of game are you playing? Are your characters on the run or are they established heros of the realm? That influences your options on what to do with the windfall. Just some stuff I can think of off the top of my head is start a school, start a town, donate to a charity, buy a tavern. Try to think about things you can't carry with you, depending on the situation.
#3 kouk Jun 11, 2009 14:44:24	I think the typically heroic thing to do with such an item is use it to bind a monster. Tarrasque perhaps.
#4 keytap Jun 11, 2009 15:09:55	We're pretty much heroes at this point.
#5 misterarcane Jun 11, 2009 15:22:08	Yeah, if your charecters are genrally good and kind, then some charity that fits each charecters motivation would be a good way to cut down size of the pile, then maybe a few investments that tie up some money for now.. and then after doing a bit of that and having the pile down to a more reasonable size, start buying a few shiny upgrades for yourself.
#6 mobar2008 Jun 11, 2009 15:31:14	We're pretty much heroes at this point. I'd have a talk with the dm, if you are interested, that money could be good seed for a new town in a new duchy. I'd try to come up with something that has a several plot hooks in it.
#7 CCS Jun 11, 2009 15:42:49	Well, there's a great start on building a fortess or such.... Of course this is actually your DMs issue to deal with. Sure, it'd be cool to sell the chains for that kind of $$$. But can anyone readily afford to buy them from you? At least where-ever you are? See, just letting players auto-sell whatever they like off thier sheets with no backend work on the DMs part, is actually a pretty common problem.
#8 keytap Jun 11, 2009 16:15:45	Well, he definitely wouldn't let us simply sell it to anyone, but the fact remains that adamantium is inherently valuable, and we don't even have to necessarily sell the chains - we can just melt them down and use them as a currency - adamantium bars, or even pieces. It can be used as a kind of trade good, along silver and steel and platinum and whatnot, so it doesn't even have to necessarily be sold.
#9 jlaurhughes_dup Jun 11, 2009 16:18:12	I know that if I were playing an unaligned PC I would probably invest it into things like underworld contacts. Pay off some debts that I may have accumulated over the adventuring career and whatnot. Also, races, I gotta play the tracks sometime.
#10 keytap Jun 11, 2009 17:09:39	Well, we're in 3.5. I've been true neutral up until just a few sessions ago, when I shifted to neutral good. Regardless, no one in the party is the betting type. :P If we get it minted, we'll have 1,440,000 "star metal pieces", each with a value of 6 steel (gold) pieces.
#11 darkwing_bmf Jun 11, 2009 17:31:13	You could probably get a pretty nice ship with crew for that price. Could open up some nice adventure paths with it.
#12 fatalis_902 Jun 11, 2009 21:25:43	Whatever you do, do not invest it into a fortress or ship. A wizard or psion can make those. Easily, for no money down (or very little down, at any rate). As for what I would do, I'd probably start by perfecting my pre-epic arsenal. Tomes and manuals, weapon/armor upgrades, new shinies to play with. Once that was done, I'd probably do something based on the character's personality. For instance, a Psychic Warrior that I want to play would have a lot of money left over, since he would use Psychic Reformation to retrain his feats and powers, craft his own stuff, and then put himself back to normal, would probably fund and lead an expedition into the Underdark/ground/mountain to eliminate the duergar/mindflayers/drow and free their captives, as he was enslaved by one of those races, and while he managed to escape, he'd like to see all of their others slaves freed and their own settlements reduced to rubble, with the people either slaughtered or enslaved. Yes, he's vengeful. But, yeah, basically, outfit self for anything and everything pre-epic, use remaining money to do something impressive and potentially world-altering or at least world-affecting in-character. Fund an expedition to some lost corner of the world or planes, for sake of knowledge or mapping, or whatever, found a new settlement or church, just cause general havoc in some established economy by flooding it with money and completely devaluing everything, give it to the poor/needy, build a statue of the character made of the rarest and most expensive games and precious metals, it all depends on what the character would do. But the first thing done with it, unless you have made a habit of giving portions of the spoils of your adventures, is outfit yourself to the best of your ability. Remember, your characters have been doing that all along. Don't let anyone tell you that you now suddenly have to give some of it away before taking care of yourself.
#13 umcorian Jun 11, 2009 23:28:08	While playing through a Dragonlance campaign, our group has come across four very, very large starmetal chains that were used to keep an ancient dragon skull suspended in a room. (Starmetal is similar to adamantine in almost all aspects) Now we didn't think about it for a while, but while we were updating our gear and whatnot, we decided to sell the chains. After working out the math, this comes to anywhere between 2 and 4 million stl (Dragonlance uses steel and not gold). We're 18-19th level, and I know that a group this level could get their hands on that kind of money, but generally we play a low-magic campaign where we don't just have money pouring out of every orifice. This is obviously more than the DM intended us to get. So I want to spend the money on something not gimmicky. I don't want to go buy out the Tower of High Sorcery's collection of tomes and manuals, or anything like that. I understand the DM's plight, but it wasn't anything that any of us thought of until just recently. I think your GM was rather strange allowing you to sell them for even a fraction of the book cost - an items value in gold does not mean its value on the street... moreover, it has to be something people are willing to pay for. Which kingdom would liquidate their treasury just to have 4 massive chains? Reminds me of a famous exchange: "You hocked... an Hattori Hanzo sword." "Needed the money." "It was priceless." "Not in Waco, Texas. Got me $250 bucks for it."
#14 prator_the_golden Jun 12, 2009 8:07:11	Well... Assuming that you melt the chains down for use as a trade good, there's a ton of things you could do. 1. Don't sell it, use it. Make yourself some adamantium swords, armor, shields, underpants, whatever. As long as you have the materials, you might as well have the products. 2. Buy land. Lots of land. With cash like that, you could buy your own kingdom, or at least a barony. Maybe you could build a fortress in some unpopulated part of the world and invite people to colonize the place alongside your team. Be warned that this may mean the end of your wandering lifestyle. 3. Invest the money into research and development of new spells and technologies. Some of this stuff can be used by your party, while other discoveries could be useful for the general public. Think "Wayne Enterprises" and see #4. 4. Start a business. Mercantilism, venture capitalism, banking, you name it. As long as you've got all this money, why not try to get EVEN MORE!? 5. After putting part of it aside for construction costs, use the entire mass of metal to construct a giant statue of yourselves. 6. Find your local god of wealth and see if it's possible to buy divine ranks. If you can buy your way into high society, it should theoretically be possible to buy your way into godhood, right?
#15 MrCustomer Jun 12, 2009 12:56:28	So I want to spend the money on something not gimmicky. I don't want to go buy out the Tower of High Sorcery's collection of tomes and manuals, or anything like that. I understand the DM's plight, but it wasn't anything that any of us thought of until just recently. perhaps not, but you might be on the right track. A Wizard might want a place where he can run magical experiments, maitain a library or the arcane and his spells. Perhaps some apprentises and servants etc. Similairly a Cleric might wish a build a temple to his deity. A fighter could get a keep on some land and establish himself as a noble. These things might serve as a good roleplaying bonus, butu don't directly correspond to mechanical power in the game when it comes to combat. Alternatively, you could point out to the DM that the market might not be large enough for that much starmetal (or rather no buyer could use that much or afford that quantity) and therefore a large protion might have to be traded off. A swordsmith making masterworked or magical swords out of starmetal for example can only craft so many of them over a period of time, and therefore would only buy so much (inded might only afford to buy a limited quantity) Basically that much material would be hard to sell off that fast except to something like a kingdom. In which case you might not just get the full amount of money for it, but perhaps an offer for an office, stature,titles and/or land as well, very few kingdoms will have that much capital to spend on that much starmetal, so offering land and titles would be more likely (and in reality probably worth more then the money) Also, keep in mind that perhaps your Dm has a story in line that will require that you use those chains to chain down some other big bad and that you are perhaps getting ahead of yourselves thiking of what you will buy with them.
#16 LordMorbien Jun 12, 2009 15:09:53	While playing through a Dragonlance campaign, our group has come across four very, very large starmetal chains that were used to keep an ancient dragon skull suspended in a room. (Starmetal is similar to adamantine in almost all aspects) Now we didn't think about it for a while, but while we were updating our gear and whatnot, we decided to sell the chains. After working out the math, this comes to anywhere between 2 and 4 million stl (Dragonlance uses steel and not gold). We're 18-19th level, and I know that a group this level could get their hands on that kind of money, but generally we play a low-magic campaign where we don't just have money pouring out of every orifice. This is obviously more than the DM intended us to get. So I want to spend the money on something not gimmicky. I don't want to go buy out the Tower of High Sorcery's collection of tomes and manuals, or anything like that. I understand the DM's plight, but it wasn't anything that any of us thought of until just recently. I ran that adventure, and my PCs chose to sell the chains, having established contacts by that point with the Solamnic Knights, the Orders of High Sorcery and the city of Sanction, all of whom had the interest and means to pay for that much starmetal. Our Solamnic Knight planned to spend much of his share on a new keep, having recently established a Barony on the site of a village he had liberated from fiendish hobgoblins, while our song-and-dance loving barbarian used his share to help build a new temple of Branchala. I'm thinking the whole party chipped in for a new Temple of Mishakal, to replace the Temple of the Heart that Takhisis had corrupted in Sanction, and of course bought the best equipment that money could buy. They were still pretty rich by that point, but that in itself didn't have much impact on the adventure. Besides, there's a good chance your characters won't live to spend the money - - you never know what the DM has up his sleeve.
#17 Kensan_Oni Jun 12, 2009 15:38:19	It's Dragonlance. The answer is obvious. Gear up and buy out the local militia, and go out on a crusade. Heck, ya got the money for it.
#18 elondir Jun 12, 2009 16:11:52	Yeah! Raise an army, take out the local dragon overlord or highlord. Then repeat until Ansalon is cleansed of evil rulers (unless the neutral gods have a say). By the time you finish that, you should be epic enough to banish Takhisis for a millennium or so.
#19 keytap Jun 12, 2009 17:43:05	Well, I'll address the major suggestions first off. 1. Upgrade your armor and buy magic items. Generally in the past, we can't just buy up all the magic items because we can afford them. Even the tower of high sorcery doesn't have just vaults of magic items lying around. Items are very scarce. So we can't just pick some items out of the DMG, point to them, and say "That. I want that,". Hell, in the past, we've had trouble getting ahold of certain ioun stones, as well as basic things like gloves of dexterity and generic rings. Our purchasing ability is highly limited. 2. Sell it. Well, easier said than done. We're at an advantage because of the fact that expensive metals are a trade good by the PHB rules, and we'll get 100% value and don't need to have a middle man to exchange them for cash first. This leads me to wanting to get the star metal melted down and minted, and just introducing "star pieces" as a currency. :P 3. Buy a castle, get a fortress, etc. Well, my character is the party wizard. I'm a high-ranking member of the Tower of High Sorcery. I'm already the High Defender of Bastion. AKA I have an interdimensional fortress that exists in its own plane of existence, with portals to all of the world of Krynn, with archons and golems and vampires and all sorts of nasties guarding every entrance, as well as an insane ethereal lillith warden. So basically, as far as fortresses go, I've got the best of the best. 4. Invest it, construct something, research something, lead an expedition, etc. Well, we're in the middle of a world-saving adventure to defeat Frost, and we're in the final chapter of the campaign. We're moving at a pretty heavy pace at this point, so putting being heroes on hold in order to go on a business venture is just flat out dumb. Basically, selling it is going to be a major issue. Doing anything with it is going to be a major issue. I'm tempted to just let them rot until the end of the campaign, because it's just annoying at this point deciding over what to do with it. And it all sounds so silly, because the superheroes of the world are gathering around campfires talking about shopping sprees and buying a new porsche when they should be out kicking some colossal dragon ass.
#20 l3lasphemer Jun 12, 2009 18:10:28	Just dont let the Paladin tithe it to his church. :D
#21 roninfrosty Jun 12, 2009 18:36:02	Assuming you can sell these for liquid money, give it to the treasury of a certain good-aligned kingdom, with the caveat that the money be specifically used for the betterment of the people. If you don't want to do that, find a random NPC (preferably a weak one), tell them to spread the wealth amongst the poor. Inform him that you're capable of scrying and mind reading, and if he tries to take the money all for himself, he'll have to answer for it. It just really seems like with this much money and your aforementioned assets, you're kind of out of uses for this much money. So use it to better someone whose outlook aligns with yours. Or, use it to outfit a military. Something.
#22 rovin Jun 13, 2009 10:50:50	I love when stuff like this shows up in modules and the DM has to back-and-fill to preserve his campaign economy. The chains are a pretty egregious example of the designer not thinking ahead, but there have been plenty over the years. My favorite was the first adventure in the 3.5 Age of Worms arc from Dungeon magazine. The 1st level PCs start out in a town that makes it's money mining iron ore, and finds a trap room in a tomb outside of town that's filled with fist-sized iron spheres, and shoots more of them at you as you move through the room. We cleared the tomb, then did the math and decided that getting a few wagons and some shovels and sacks to empty the place would make us more money than a year's worth of adventuring. Even iron is worth something when you're getting it in 40' x 25' x 20' volumes. The DM took one look at the math and the spheres immediately got retconned to stone. Pretty funny, really. We tried to convince him to leave them iron and have us come back from town with our wagon train and find the room filled with bloated rust monsters instead, but he wouldn't go for it. Sigh.
#23 David Jun 13, 2009 14:11:33	Have you tried making Starmetal weapons and armor?
#24 beholdergaze Jun 13, 2009 14:39:34	The thing is, once you've found anything that could be valuable you need to find someone to buy it. If the only settlements in the area are small towns and villages, forget it. There's no way such small settlements are going to have the money to pay for anything like 2.4 million gold worth of materials. Even if there is a rich kingdom near by that could afford to buy all the materials, why would they? Do they plan on using the materials for something or just holding on to them? Remember that even if they bought them, the value of the materials significantly diminishes the more they buy. Anyways, why would a kingdom allow that much of its wealth to be circulating around? Also, what about bandits or high level entities in the area. That sounds like too much wealth or materials for anyone to have unchallenged. Just thoughts.
#25 sockmonkey66 Jun 14, 2009 17:39:41	That's a good point. That much starmetal is worth someone sending a whole army after you.
#26 keytap Jun 14, 2009 18:09:20	Well, no one knows we have them, first of all. Second of all, they're stored in the interdimensional fortress guarded by archons and golems and vampires and everything inbetween, as well as an insane spectral lillith warden, on top of natural magical defenses. Bring it.
#27 beholdergaze Jun 15, 2009 12:25:39	Sit on your horde like a dragon then. :P
#28 mock26 Jun 15, 2009 16:50:35	Just because it has a gold-piece value does not mean that someone can afford to buy it or will pay that much for it.
#29 drackthor Jun 15, 2009 21:14:57	Alright, press it until you've got it down to string-thin wire. Start making more and more of it, walking all the way to the eastern coast of the continent you're inhabitting. Upon arrival of the coast, have the zeppelin you instructed days earlier to be waiting for you to take you up into the sky, now traversing the ocean. Over the next continent you encounter, don't stop, because it's full of lawful evil empires that the DM made as a fan-service to his own inner mastermind. Merely present a white flag from either side of the zeppelin, so that these evil, but civilized, people will know you intend no harm. If no flag is available, try using pieces of white cloth or a caucasian party member. Now, the third continent will be freaky, like, roll-up-the-windows, That-Thing-Has-A-Face-Where-It's-Elbow-Should-Be freaky. Just keep steaming on past that nuthouse. Finally, the fourth continent. This will be noteworthy as the final continent before you get to the one you originally left, as most DMs find just about all of their ideas and experiments can be satisfied with two or three continents, so the fourth and fifth are there to make the world feel more alive. Wave and smile to the generic peoples of Linearia, and proceed home. You've arrived on the eastern coast of the continent you left on! Now, of course, through the entire trip you held on to the length of starmetal, and you now have a continuous starmetal wire across the circumference of your entire gameworld! Enjoy!
#30 Qube Jun 16, 2009 8:50:43	this comes to anywhere between 2 and 4 million stl (Dragonlance uses steel and not gold). We're 18-19th level, with how much do lvl 21 or lvl 22 characters start with?
#31 savevsstupidity Jun 16, 2009 9:35:28	Remember your basic economics - if you have that much of the stuff, you are quickly going to glut the market. It is expensive because it is rare. Now that you have that much of it, it is no longer rare. Sure, the first time you sell off a couple of links, or bars, or whatever you do with it, you'll get the book value (maybe), but next month when you go to sell some more you'll discover that no one needs anymore yet, or are only willing to pay half as much for it. People aren't going to keep paying ridiculously high prices for a "rare" metal that isn't rare anymore. Or, consider that powerful people tend to want their share of sudden riches. If I were the DM, I would have people notice that you apparently have a large amount of this metal and I would arrange a large and nasty bunch of people intent on stealing it from you. Or maybe the kingdom is going to war and you are an excellent source of extra tax revenue for the King.
#32 corvusdrake Jun 17, 2009 10:20:45	While playing through a Dragonlance campaign, our group has come across four very, very large starmetal chains that were used to keep an ancient dragon skull suspended in a room. (Starmetal is similar to adamantine in almost all aspects) Now we didn't think about it for a while, but while we were updating our gear and whatnot, we decided to sell the chains. After working out the math, this comes to anywhere between 2 and 4 million stl (Dragonlance uses steel and not gold). We're 18-19th level, and I know that a group this level could get their hands on that kind of money, but generally we play a low-magic campaign where we don't just have money pouring out of every orifice. This is obviously more than the DM intended us to get. So I want to spend the money on something not gimmicky. I don't want to go buy out the Tower of High Sorcery's collection of tomes and manuals, or anything like that. I understand the DM's plight, but it wasn't anything that any of us thought of until just recently. My question is this: Who the hell did you sell those to? Because no common merchant...or even city lord....can afford that. You'd have to find someone to break up the starmetal, and even then, it'd be better to have them forged into coins for barter than to carry the stl equivalent. 2,000,000 Steel is 40048.8 lbs. Where did you get the sherpas? I want to know what book sherpas are in.....and where to get that many :D Edit: as a side note, that much money is enough to change a regional economy. Edit 2: That gives me an idea for you. If you can get it forged into coins, buy a small stone structure and make it a bank. Allow people to purchase Starmetal coins for a fee of 5%, making 5 gold on every 100 worth exchanged. If you can acquire more Starmetal, you can slowly flood the market with starmetal while retaining quite a profit for yourself.
#33 keytap Jun 17, 2009 13:44:03	So, nobody seems to comprehend that we don't have to actually sell the chains. As a precious metal, they're a trade good. They are currency in their present state. Come on, people. I know a single merchant can't afford them.
#34 mobar2008 Jun 17, 2009 13:51:05	So, nobody seems to comprehend that we don't have to actually sell the chains. As a precious metal, they're a trade good. They are currency in their present state. Come on, people. I know a single merchant can't afford them. I got that :P Seriously its an interesting problem to have.
#35 pyromancer2k Jun 17, 2009 20:27:52	with how much do lvl 21 or lvl 22 characters start with? About 1M gold each. If they played up to 21-22 though and still have every thing they found not having lost a single gold from use of item or sold less then book value to merchant they should have around 1.4M.
#36 savevsstupidity Jun 18, 2009 8:12:01	So, nobody seems to comprehend that we don't have to actually sell the chains. As a precious metal, they're a trade good. They are currency in their present state. Come on, people. I know a single merchant can't afford them. But not a trade good that most people want or need. And you still have to find people to trade with. How much adamantium does the average blacksmith want/need? The point is, you are hauling around tons of something that is usually valuable because it is rare. You have single-handedly destroyed the market for that product, probably throughout the entire kingdom.
#37 corvusdrake Jun 18, 2009 18:09:15	The real challenge here is that the item, even forged into coins (which is a decent use of it) will end up very, very hard to sell. Personally, what I'd do, is discuss with a blacksmith the cost of making my armor, weapons, rings, helms, horse girding, etc. into starmetal. It has REDICULOUS room for enchantment, and you might even be able to con your DM into addiing bonuses when dealing with merchants for waltzing up to them wearing a half a mil in pretty shinies. Use the starmetal to invest in manufacturing of other things that are easier to sell or use. Maybe even build a vault for storing your gear and find a wizard that makes you an item that will let you D-Door to and from it. Edit: Doesn't it also do additional damage to Outsiders, whereas Adamantine doesn't?
#38 panosl Jun 19, 2009 22:38:15	Simep solution is that you take them in a room and tortuee them until they are forced to tell you the exact reason why they happned to know like all the information that led them to become millinaires and then you can **** off with the money anway cos you are king,.
#39 rowl Jun 20, 2009 3:31:28	Well... Assuming that you melt the chains down for use as a trade good, there's a ton of things you could do. 1. Don't sell it, use it. Make yourself some adamantium swords, armor, shields, underpants, whatever. As long as you have the materials, you might as well have the products. 2. Buy land. Lots of land. With cash like that, you could buy your own kingdom, or at least a barony. Maybe you could build a fortress in some unpopulated part of the world and invite people to colonize the place alongside your team. Be warned that this may mean the end of your wandering lifestyle. 3. Invest the money into research and development of new spells and technologies. Some of this stuff can be used by your party, while other discoveries could be useful for the general public. Think "Wayne Enterprises" and see #4. 4. Start a business. Mercantilism, venture capitalism, banking, you name it. As long as you've got all this money, why not try to get EVEN MORE!? 5. After putting part of it aside for construction costs, use the entire mass of metal to construct a giant statue of yourselves. 6. Find your local god of wealth and see if it's possible to buy divine ranks. If you can buy your way into high society, it should theoretically be possible to buy your way into godhood, right? This. All of this. All in all, it seems like retirement money. Or at least a whole new style of campaigning. Oh yeah, and make sure your town and/or business has a very large and 'well stocked' brothel.