Anyway, what happens if you summon a heavy monster (say a triceratops or a huge earth elemental) into the air about 10 feet over your opponents' heads? Is this legal? How much damage is done by a falling triceratops? Do the opponents get Reflex saves? What if the summoning happens even higher above the opponent?
I imagine this is why they made summoning whales on dry land illegal, now that I think about it.
I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but a quick search of the forums reveals nothing.
Anyway, what happens if you summon a heavy monster (say a triceratops or a huge earth elemental) into the air about 10 feet over your opponents' heads? Is this legal? How much damage is done by a falling triceratops? Do the opponents get Reflex saves? What if the summoning happens even higher above the opponent?
I imagine this is why they made summoning whales on dry land illegal, now that I think about it.
Same reason you can't summom whales above someone. You can only summon a monster on surfaces that can support them. Pages 172 PHB on Conjuration effects: You cannot someone in it floating in empty space. Thus no above someone.
This hasn't come up because everyone else read the conjuration type description I'd wager.
Same reason you can't summom whales above someone. You can only summon a monster on surfaces that can support them. Pages 172 PHB on Conjuration effects: You cannot someone in it floating in empty space. Thus no above someone.
This hasn't come up because everyone else read the conjuration type description I'd wager.
Huh, I'm surprised I missed that part.
But why? If you can summon something 25 feet away, why does it need to be on a solid surface? I can summon an Acid Orb so that it will just fly and hit a creature, why can't a summon a T-Rex in the same way?
And whales have an extra caveat: they can only be summoned into an aquatic environment.
Huh, I'm surprised I missed that part.
But why? If you can summon something 25 feet away, why does it need to be on a solid surface? I can summon an Acid Orb so that it will just fly and hit a creature, why can't a summon a T-Rex in the same way?
You want the real answer? To stop people from summoning a monster in the air and dropping it on the enemy. Only reason.
You want the real answer? To stop people from summoning a monster in the air and dropping it on the enemy. Only reason.
*sigh* I guess if I want to fling elementals at my opponents, I'll have to do it the old fashion way. With a catapult.
Yeah, I suppose you're right. Although it does raise a question: if you can only summon things onto a solid surface, how do you even manage to summon a whale underwater? Do you have to cast it on the ocean bed? Are the restrictions for underwater summoning specifically lifted somewhere, and I missed that, too?
*sigh* I guess if I want to fling elementals at my opponents, I'll have to do it the old fashion way. With a catapult.
Yeah, I suppose you're right. Although it does raise a question: if you can only summon things onto a solid surface, how do you even manage to summon a whale underwater? Do you have to cast it on the ocean bed? Are the restrictions for underwater summoning specifically lifted somewhere, and I missed that, too?
The wording of the spell states that "Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them". I guess the phrasing can be taken either physically or "ecologically". Thus, you can summon a whale in the ocean, but not on dry land or in the air.
Ergo, even a flying creature cannot be summoned into mid-air. It must start on a solid surface and then fly.
The wording of the spell states that "Creatures cannot be summoned into an environment that cannot support them". I guess the phrasing can be taken either physically or "ecologically". Thus, you can summon a whale in the ocean, but not on dry land or in the air.
I'm not talking about Summon Monster specifically anymore, but Conjuration in general. Quoting this once again:
It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it.
The ocean can't support anything. If a flying creature can't be summoned into the air, than by the letter of the rules you can't summon up a whale into water unless you do it at the very bottom, on the ocean floor or river bed. And if you allow it, then why can't the players conjure Walls of Iron above their enemies heads while underwater?
The ocean can't support anything.
Aquatic creatures come into the express exception written into the description of the Summon spells: "May be summoned only into an aquatic or watery environment." This is written in a footnote appended to each aquatic creature, but not any other creature. Therefore, it applies as an exception only to those creatures. Summon Monster VIII, for example, allows you to summon celestial cachelot whale, and the entry specifically states it must be summoned into an aquatic environment.
And if you allow it, then why can't the players conjure Walls of Iron above their enemies heads while underwater?
Because the Wall of Iron spell does not, unlike the Summon Creature spells, contain an express exception to the general rule prohibiting that tactic.
However, your interpretation is strictly better for game play, so I'll just pretend otherwise.
The DnD Universe works on the concept of "Ideals". The real world did too, until about 800 years ago when a few smart-alecky philosophers like Duns Scotus started confusing everyone with the idea that "dog" is just a name we give certain flea-bitten slobbery carnivores. But "dog" was not just a name - it was an Ideal that certain slobbery animals offer a pale reflection of. For every concept in the real world there was an Ideal in Heaven - Ideal Love, Ideal Evil, Ideal Gold, and an Ideal Dog.
Almost everything in the Multiverse works this way, especially magic. What is a Fireball? It is obviously something very different than mundane fire. Ordinary fire consumes oxygen and fuel, and is shaped by time and circumstance. A Fireball is a perfect globe that affects nothing except by heat. A Fireball is not fire. It is a little piece of "Ideal" fire summoned by the wizard for a moment from the Elemental Place of Fire.
So, too, a Summon Monster spell does not summon a whale. It summons an Ideal Whale - a whale that embodies all that is "whaley". It will have every attribute a whale should have, and no attribute that a whale should not.
One attribute a whale generally should not have is "being 20' up in the air". The Ideal Whale cannot be there. Not because it doesn't want to be. But because if it was, it wouldn't be the Ideal Whale.
Now, if you could research a spell for summoning a Falling Whale, you might have something. But philosophers disagree whether *all* concepts have an exemplar in the realm of Ideals. Most likely there is no Ideal Falling Whale, as clearly whales cannot fall. But if there is, it may be a worthwhile Epic-level quest to the outer planes to discover it. Succeed, and you may have a nice Epic-level spell for use against your enemies.
This concept, called by philosophers "Realism" is an attempt to confuse all non-philosophers. also explains the special place of Gold in the DnD economy. Gold is the Ideal metal. Obviously you can't transmute base metals to the Ideal - it's as silly an idea as transmuting Badgers into Love. Even try and you'll get your eyes scratched out.
and no i dont know why i just found it very amusing.
you summon a Whaley whale as oppose to.. well.. a diff whale lol
Also, slightly more on topic (kinda). I recall reading in ONE of the books (god help me if i can remember which one now) that said something along the lines of:
Magic is not technology, where one piece of technology can be used today for many various applications, a spell or magic effect does ONLY what it is stated to do in the description.
it went on to give various examples none of which i now remember.
Magic is not technology, where one piece of technology can be used today for many various applications, a spell or magic effect does ONLY what it is stated to do in the description.
There are lots of potential examples. And each version of the rules cleans up the worst abuses of the old rules. AD&D grognards remember casting Blade Barrier horizontally within a circular Wall of Force to create a huge Cuisinart. Today's rules explicitly outlaw that tactic, and you'll find lots of similar nerfs in the rulebook. Of course, with all the supplements out there the power-gamers will always be able to find more Cans of Pure Win.
From Conjuration, in the SRD: "A creature or object brought into being or transported to your location by a conjuration spell cannot appear inside another creature or object, nor can it appear floating in an empty space. It must arrive in an open location on a surface capable of supporting it."
Ergo, even a flying creature cannot be summoned into mid-air. It must start on a solid surface and then fly.
PSA: Get a very sturdy hat with a large perch on top. Tie it on securely, that the wind cannot tear it off. In the event that you're falling to your death and a celestial giant eagle suddenly requires a landing place, you'll be glad you did.
Hehe... "whaley".
PSA: Get a very sturdy hat with a large perch on top. Tie it on securely, that the wind cannot tear it off. In the event that you're falling to your death and a celestial giant eagle suddenly requires a landing place, you'll be glad you did.
Hehe... "whaley".
Omg i actualy laught when i read this... you are evil :evillaugh