Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Napolean_Warlord Jan 30, 2012 22:16:28	Ok, this is a super basic question but is there a general rule of thumb for targeting/elimination of monsters by role? I could see controllers generally having a strategy like: 1) Deny movement to monsters entering combat 2) Kill minions 3) status effects on biggest/baddest monster left And everyone else something: like kill in the following order: 1) Artillery 2) Leaders  3) Lurkers/Soldiers Our group usually goes after whoever drops AoE's on us and then focuses on getting flanks on, but we could definitely be more strategic...  Interested also in any comments on how to prioritize Elites in certain roles, especially in a mixed group with artillery and an Elite who plays a different role. thanks!
#2 GSX72clone Jan 30, 2012 22:38:19	A typical encounter for my group is: Wizard goes for the minions first. (his deny movement spells tend to be dailys) then soften up targets as we call them. Rouge goes for the nearest mob and works for the kill, unless the Paladin gets into trouble, then we go for the flank while the bard and wizard work traffic control. Bard provides artilary support with some deny movement and penalties for extra flavor. Also keeps the Paladin and Rouge in fighting shape if things get tough. Paldin (me) Almost always intially target the closest for a (hopefully) quick takedown. Then focus on distracting the biggest problem, usually the leader or artillery untill the the rest of the party can help out.
#3 Buzzhorn1 Jan 30, 2012 22:50:30	For my group, priority is: Obvious leader-y looking thing > controller > artillery > soldiers/brutes. Minions are the controllers specialty, and he takes care of them almost exclusively, so they're pretty much separate.
#4 thespaceinvader Jan 31, 2012 9:00:10	Usually, kill the elites/solos last, if we can figure out which they are, but this isn't always the best way to go if they're particularly leadery elites/solos.
#5 Mand12 Jan 31, 2012 10:02:10	"Foolsss...kill the one in the dress!"  -  Lord Victor Nefarius
#6 mellored Jan 31, 2012 10:55:56	Strikers -> Low HP people first (excluding minions). Contollers -> Whoever they can stall most effectivly, or minons if they can get a few. Defenders -> Who ever isn't stalled. Leaders -> Just let other's do their jobs.
#7 mvincent Jan 31, 2012 11:08:04	is there a general rule of thumb for targeting/elimination of monsters by role? Minions: get rid of quick via area attacks (mostly to speed up the game). Elites: stun and take down fast to disallow them their action point and encounter powers.
#8 warrl Jan 31, 2012 17:18:57	My dancer (damage slightly below an optimized melee ranger, defenses like a fighter, good initiative) has a straightforward strategy. 1) primary target selection: the boss. The only issue is identification. So I pick a likely candidate that I can get to quickly, and go after him. (Quite often there's only one decent candidate.) 2) route selection: along walls or equivalent. This way I have the wall effectively guarding one flank, and leave the center clear for my buddies including the controller. If they take care of my other flank, I don't get mobbed. Not that I mind mobs overly much; I just move slightly more slowly and have more secondary targets - and if it gets too bad I can teleport occasionally. 3) secondary target selection: anything that's in my way. But getting past them is more important than killing them. My bard is entirely different. When the door opens, I normally try to be in the back and let my allies go first. My damage isn't great, my control is limited and spotty. I have to weigh my ability to get allies into melee with the enemy, against my own need to hide behind someone; Disney Princesses (and this character literally is one) are not front-line troops, even after they become Dashing Heroes. However, I still have the attitude of going after the prime target as soon as feasible, and have provoked opportunity attacks to do so.
#9 IxidorRS Jan 31, 2012 17:32:04	It does depend on roles, in my mind: Controller: 1. Control effects on big bad or heavies, if damage centric, be sure to splash damage minions 2. Target minions, or if damage based target next big bad Striker: 1. Hit the big bad 2. Hit the big bad some more 3. If multi-target, try to splash some minions or heavies Defender: 1: Engage big bad 2: If multi-marking mark nearest heavy or a minion Leader: 1. Buff allies / Debuff enemies: Focus on allies main target 2. Enable attacks 3. Heal
#10 Napolean_Warlord Jan 31, 2012 23:14:44	Thanks, some very good comments about basic strategy and adapting to terrain and character/party specific capabilities. Seems like a little difference of opinion on whether to take down elites first or last.  We haven't had a consistent approach, many times the encounters are designed to make it hard to focus fire on the elites.  My guess is that mathematically one is better off trying to kill the elites vs. wiping out the standard monsters first.  thoughts?
#11 thespaceinvader Feb 01, 2012 4:03:42	TO some extent, it usually depends on the elite.  Our reason for generally leaving them (unless they do things like Dominate) is that they tend to take a lot longer than standards to kill, during which time the standards are whaling on you.  You take a lot more damage from the mob of 4 standards that's whaling on you, than you would from the single elite. The elite is usually the big control target though.  If the controllers can keep it locked down, then you can nova the smeg out of it once you've tidied up.
#12 DontEatRawHagis Feb 01, 2012 12:22:48	Leader, always. If there is an enemy on the field that assists other enemies on the field they are number one on my list. Now a leader could be minions. For example the minions fuel the fire of a solo beast.
#13 BlinkBlink Feb 02, 2012 3:56:31	Strikers -> Low HP people first (excluding minions). Contollers -> Whoever they can stall most effectivly, or minons if they can get a few. Defenders -> Who ever isn't stalled. Leaders -> Just let other's do their jobs. So you'll note that this has each roll going after someone else. (I'll also note that this is roughly how our own party does it.) So how do you reconcile this advice with the universally given advice of "focus fire"? Our party has not figured this out yet. But we have gotten consistent at dropping all of the monsters on the same round now. So I guess we've perfected unfocused fire, for whatever that's worth.
#14 mellored Feb 02, 2012 9:21:55	Strikers -> Low HP people first (excluding minions). Contollers -> Whoever they can stall most effectivly, or minons if they can get a few. Defenders -> Who ever isn't stalled. Leaders -> Just let other's do their jobs. So you'll note that this has each roll going after someone else. (I'll also note that this is roughly how our own party does it.) So how do you reconcile this advice with the universally given advice of "focus fire"? Our party has not figured this out yet. But we have gotten consistent at dropping all of the monsters on the same round now. So I guess we've perfected unfocused fire, for whatever that's worth. Most of the time, striker+leader+5th hit the same creature.  With the contoller/defender trying to stall everyone else.  And if someone is effectivly stalled, (say.. immobilized (save ends) a few squares away), then the controller/defender should join the focus fire. Also, roles blend alot.  So... If the controller stalls 3/5 creatures, and the fighter and leader attack 1, the 2-handed fighter might want to join in and just leave the last creature do it's thing for a turn.. Or if the pyromancer can't effectivly stall (i.e. immobilize teleporters do nothing), dropping some pure damage isn't a bad choice. The cleric can uses turn undead to stall a few creatures, before joining the beatdown on the necromancer. The persuit avenger might need to oath a skirmisher to punish him for running around, rather then join in the controler killing. The vampire might push a creature into a well, or tank the brute... kinda not strikers either... ect...
#15 kenlar Feb 02, 2012 16:25:01	My group usually takes the enemies in this order: 1: Minions, because they're annoying. The Controller takes those on his first turn. 2: Obvious Leader gets targeted by a Stun/Sleep/Hypnosis effect. 3: Melee-enemies, while closing in on ranged ones. 4: Melee-enemies, while cornering one ranged one at a time (for Opportunity Attacks) 5: Obvious Completely Ineffectual Leader (remember that he was stunned/unconcious/charmed). If there are several enemies of the same type that aren't minions (Human Guards, Kobold Dragonshields, Rage Drakes or other nasties), we like to reduce the numbers of each type to at most 2 with the same name to ease the DM's burden.
#16 BRJN Feb 03, 2012 22:22:09	I usually play at conventions, no permanent group.  So we have to improvise a lot; good thing I can do some small-l leading. Gondolin (Warlock): Shoot any obvious Boss type plus a maybe-Standard with Eldritch Rain (2 shots), action point, Encounter power again one of those two.  Obvious melee hulks coming my way get Dire Radiance (makes it walk through molasses) but usually spam Eldritch Blast on whoever until they are dead, then change target.  I'm not very disciplined about focussing fire unless somebody gets up in my face; then he's the biggest threat to ME and I do whatever I can to him. Narvik (Druid): Swarms of identical foes - minions? - get first shot with Chill Wind, unless something that just screams out 'I am a Solo' is on the board.  Solos get one of my Daily zones because I punish their movement that way.  I have ignored assassins coming my way - that is what allies are for - to concentrate on ranged foes.  Ashes of Athas is melee-striker-heavy, so I could be the ONLY ranged combatant in the group; that makes it my job to keep artillery busy until the others can get to him. If you get to set up an ambush, prepare!  Dailies, zones, blasts and bursts!  Have the striker druid get into beast form before the fight starts; shaman spirit companions can lurk behind a rock too.  Surprise rounds give you one action; how can you most hurt the enemy?  Think through action point combos.  But most especially: party cooperation.  Arrange what order you want to go in.  Assign targets (if you get enough information).  If you have something like Quick Formation, have that guy shift the melee types into position to charge.  If your Warlord has Direct the Strike, delay until after the barbarian is next to his target.  Ranged attacks do not get less powerful over distance, so your Wizard can stay at range = 10 from the designated 'NPCs Start Here' penalty box. I know you asked about kicking in a door, but many of the principles are the same.
#17 Kontaro Feb 21, 2012 1:00:43	My pyro has basicly a priority list.  It goes something like this, due to only have fire spells(and so mostly aoes) -      Mutliple targets able to be hit at once->Small groups->Big bads->Anything left My Crossbow rogue is different -       Big bad->Anything granting CA->Bigest threat->Whatever is closest
#18 neonrainbowchaser Feb 28, 2012 7:57:00	Take out what looks like the biggest threat, and toast/squash whatever crosses my path/gets in the way.
#19 eremius_valda Mar 02, 2012 11:34:58	I tend toward Biggest Threat to me -> Minions -> Big Bad I favor the minions as 1) they go down quickly 2) it stops their damage