Telling Someone "I Don't Want to Play in Your Group" - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Telling Someone "I Don't Want to Play in Your Group"

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
aekwn
Jul 19, 2009 1:10:00 I'm rather baffled as to how to do this without making someone feel bad. I have a group of friends, and we sort of each run a campaign that we play on a rotating basis. On of those just isn't fun for me at all, and I can think of a number of better ways to spend a large block of time. The thing is that I don't want to be a jerk. Any advice?
#2
humanmind
Jul 19, 2009 1:34:13 Unfortunatly there isn't. I had to tell a friend that I wanted to play another game without him and the reaction wasn't good.

Be honest, and explain why you don't want to play with him and if he's a good friend he'll understand.
#3
james88o
Jul 19, 2009 1:36:25 way i did it was faking a schedule change at work, telling them that we would regroup when things worked out.

I directed them to the forums here in the mean time lol

i was a player
the dm was hardly a dm
he was dropping so much gold and floating castles and stuff to us before lvl 3 that my character had no need to fight anymore
why fight if you are swimming in astral diamonds and have a floating castle...?

and i supplied all the rule books,dungeon tiles, minis, dice, and focus for the group
and when i said other people needed to get their own stuff they kinda replied with "why when you bring all your stuff"
#4
johnhansen
Jul 19, 2009 3:22:36
I'm rather baffled as to how to do this without making someone feel bad. I have a group of friends, and we sort of each run a campaign that we play on a rotating basis. On of those just isn't fun for me at all, and I can think of a number of better ways to spend a large block of time. The thing is that I don't want to be a jerk. Any advice?

Why is it not fun for you compared to when the others DM.
#5
hidakenshiro
Jul 19, 2009 4:33:54 simplest answer: stop caring about peoples feelings... They'll get over it. This game is nothing to get personal over. I've come across several DMs that are just terrible. if you're not having fun then you're doing it wrong and thus ought to stop doing it. Sometimes telling DMs they suck ass (giving examples helps) will actually help them grow.
#6
kuonji
Jul 19, 2009 9:25:15 I've done this before. Just be upfront about it. "Bob, I'm not really having fun in this game so rather than bring down the mood of the table, I'm going to sit out and let everyone else enjoy the game. Let me know when you guys want to do something different."

This might open up a conversation about why the game isn't fun. Try not to rant/vent too much, just take a neutral tone and explain what you aren't enjoying. Who knows, you might even see some changes and end up having fun in the game, and if not, at least you will have your time back to do other things.
#7
bolo_unit_brl
Jul 19, 2009 9:28:01 I agree that the game is nothing to get personal over. On the other hand, if you don't care about other people's feelings, then you'll live a relatively lonely existence.

I think the best avenue here is to be honest, but gentle. There is a difference between saying, "I really don't enjoy the game" and giving sincere examples of things you dislike and telling a guy, "Wow, you blow chunks as a DM, call me when you learn some skills." The former method could help someone improve although it's hardly a guarantee. The latter method could lose you a buddy and potentially alienate anyone else from running for you since very few people appreciate that kind of social brutality.
#8
Myztek
Jul 19, 2009 9:32:09 If you're doing the rotating thing the situation is a bit more awkward. You might want to consider talking to the other players and seeing if your dentiments are shared. If so, you could talk to the DM in question as a group.

If the group wishes to suggest some improvements in style that better fit the players, do so by saying "We really enjoy...", but without saying "We hate it when you..." Often, 'bad' DMs get better with a little realignment. I found that having someone run a well built commercial module can improve their form quite a bit if they have never run one...

It is also better to approach the DM as a group if the group devcides it is best for him not to DM. In those instances, focus on it being a style preference and try to avoid any direct insults.
#9
red_wizard
Jul 19, 2009 10:34:41 I've never been one to consider feelings, especially over honesty, two which people love and hate me for it. I've long since come to a point where I tell my group what their problems are, and why, and they accept it. This now means we have no group however, which I'm not entirely upset about.

99.99999% of the time, I'm forced to DM, because the others can't or won't do it, and spend all evening either complaining, or splitting the party because their idea of group tactics is "If I think I can do it alone, it must be so".

-RW
#10
Escef
Jul 19, 2009 10:52:53
I've done this before. Just be upfront about it. "Bob, I'm not really having fun in this game so rather than bring down the mood of the table, I'm going to sit out and let everyone else enjoy the game. Let me know when you guys want to do something different."

This might open up a conversation about why the game isn't fun. Try not to rant/vent too much, just take a neutral tone and explain what you aren't enjoying. Who knows, you might even see some changes and end up having fun in the game, and if not, at least you will have your time back to do other things.

This.
#11
aekwn
Jul 19, 2009 11:15:19
Why is it not fun for you compared to when the others DM.

A few reasons it's not fun really, one is that his campaigns are in D20m, which I'm not a huge fan of (not his fault in any way), they tend to revolve around large puzzles which take hours to solve (not my cup of tea), there will only be one or two fights in a whole campaign, and he repeatedly and obviously does things simply for the sake of making the story more rediculous.
#12
greg_k_dup
Jul 19, 2009 11:59:32 I've left three groups. All three times, I have been honest about why I was leaving (in all three instances it was a difference between my playstyle preference and the type of game being run and the group was enjoying). I never told the DM that his game sucked, because everyone else was having fun and I recognized their preference to be as valid as my own.

In the third instance, the talk led to the DM changing how he ran the game.

I had returned to a long term group that I had started, but left for a year to focus on school. The current DM was a player that had been the last to join and took over after I had left. Two sessions in, I left my roommate and the others to continue playing in the kitchen. Later, the DM asked why I left and I explained that I didn't want a game that was all dungeon crawls and combat. I wanted to spend time exploring the setting above, interact with NPCs, have a variety of adventures not just dungeon crawls and have those adventures be things that the players sought out based upon our characters motivations, backgrounds and/or the result of things we have done (e.g, some enemy we made along the way)

After, hearing me out , the GM breathed a sigh of relief. He and I wanted the same type of campaign. However, he had been running his current game to accomodate one player (whom he brought it after I left), his best friend, whom was 100% Buttkicker, 100% Powergamer, 100% minmaxer and would complain if the group was not exploring dungeons and killing monsters. Nobody else had said anything so he continued to accomodate his friend.

Prior to the next game, he polled the other players (excluding his friend) and found they had wanted the same things that he and I wanted. They had not said anything, because they were happy just to have a game.

The next game, the DM announced the focus of his campaign was changing.
#13
bigdaddygamebot
Jul 19, 2009 12:30:38
I'm rather baffled as to how to do this without making someone feel bad. I have a group of friends, and we sort of each run a campaign that we play on a rotating basis. On of those just isn't fun for me at all, and I can think of a number of better ways to spend a large block of time. The thing is that I don't want to be a jerk. Any advice?

If you don't want to be a jerk...then DON'T be a jerk. Be honest about it.

It's the same if your buddy invited you over for a type of meal that you didn't enjoy eating.

Just be honest and tell him the reasons why you aren't having any fun.

Ideally it will result in one of the two things happening.

Over time, they change up their playstyle/campaign so it's more enjoyable for you.

or

They're cool with it and you do something else on the nights their campaign is scheduled.

I have some friends whose playstyle in 3.0 and 3.5 that made me want to drink poison. It never got better until I flat out told them what the problem was.
#14
sirkaikillah
Jul 19, 2009 12:45:58 Be honest! Buy him a beer first. I like cold beer and it is easier to swallow bitter news with a beer. If he cries tell him it's just a game andnot worth a friendship. Lets face it, there are many more people who want to Dm than actuallly can Dm well. I'm blunt about telling people they are not good DMs. But lieing about it and playing a crappy game just to spare ones feeling does no one any good. Just be honest, acknowledge any hurt feelings, remind them a friendship is more important than a game and dno't forget the beer. Beer is good.
#15
mkill
Jul 19, 2009 14:13:59 It is just a game. Honestly, it's not like you tell your wife you want a divorce. If he gets emotional about this, he's probably not relaxed enough to be a fun gaming friend anyway.

In fact, I have been told by a group "hey, we don't like your DMing style". Or rather, it was like "that session you gave for us sucked". I got over it pretty quickly, I though they weren't great players either. Turns out our ideas of what a great session is just differed. It happens, I just looked for another group and found one.

Here is how I would do it. Ask him politely to make some changes to accomodate you as a player. Something like "The game would be more fun for me if there were more combats", "Can we fight something else but goblins?", "Would you mind handing out some treasure? We're level 7 and fighting with butter knifes", "Your NPCs are bland. I want to act out my character more, can you try to give us more social interaction?", "Your dungeons are just trapfilled temples of doom! I spend hours creating that character, I don't want to lose him to a stupid Perception DC 44 spike trap like Steve lost Bob VII last session!"

Whatever your complaint / suggestion is, give your DM a chance to accomodate your wishes. If he refuses, you have a perfect excuse to tell him politely that you'd rather skip his sessions then. If he tries to make the game more fun for you, either you do indeed have more fun and don't want to quit anymore (WIN), or you need to tell him "Sorry, I know you tried and I really appreciate it, but it's just not my style and I'd rather quit".
#16
AaronOfBarbaria
Jul 19, 2009 17:02:55 As a DM who runs a wide variety of games in a wide variety of styles and themes, I have experience with players not being interested.

From my personal experience there are three ways that a player concerned about seeming like a jerk will leave a game: 1) tell the DM they aren't interested in that sort of game, and remove themself from it gracefully. Or 2) lie about why they aren't there for the game, or 3) just stop showing up and not actually offer a reason as to why.

I recomend being honest about it... as the other two have an outside chance of causing the group in general (and the DM especially) to develope a bit of hard feelings which might result in a general decline in the amount of times you are invited to join in on new games - I know I have one player that the group in general, and myself especially (as the DM), have near entirely stopped mentioning new games to because of his recent streak of missing games without explanation (including his own).
#17
salla
Jul 19, 2009 18:41:13
A few reasons it's not fun really, one is that his campaigns are in D20m, which I'm not a huge fan of (not his fault in any way), they tend to revolve around large puzzles which take hours to solve (not my cup of tea), there will only be one or two fights in a whole campaign, and he repeatedly and obviously does things simply for the sake of making the story more ridiculous.

I'd just mention the first part, that you don't like d20 Modern. That definitely spares his feelings, and is honest. It's the truth, just not the *whole* truth.

I've done similar things with GMs in my group ("World of Darkness? Too gloomy and depressing for me." "L5R? Japan isn't my thing.").
#18
drackthor
Jul 19, 2009 18:55:27 We have the same basic thing. Multiple people want to DM, but only one or two members of the group show a real aptitude for DMing. Since we have something of an erratic schedule, we generally only get to do one adventure per session, so someone has to go over someone else. What I do, I let people know in advance that I will play four adventures of their campaign before deciding whether I will keep playing that campaign. If by four adventures you can't set even a hint of interest off, this is not something I want to commit valuable time to. The other players also decide whether or not they're enjoying something, and have their own methods.
#19
etarnon
Jul 19, 2009 19:16:29 Things I have said:

"Our styles are a mismatch."

"The game we're playing is not what you advertised."

"There's more combat than roleplay, and I was told it would be 50 / 50."

For me it usually isn't about the players, per se, more about the lack of depth of the game.

Best of luck.
#20
CCS
Jul 20, 2009 2:06:20
Why is it not fun for you compared to when the others DM.

Why's this matter? Obviously the DM runs games that aren't to the OPs taste....
#21
shadow_viper
Jul 20, 2009 3:42:53
Why's this matter? Obviously the DM runs games that aren't to the OPs taste....

Why does it matter if it matters?

It's still a valid question.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 aekwn Jul 19, 2009 1:10:00	I'm rather baffled as to how to do this without making someone feel bad. I have a group of friends, and we sort of each run a campaign that we play on a rotating basis. On of those just isn't fun for me at all, and I can think of a number of better ways to spend a large block of time. The thing is that I don't want to be a jerk. Any advice?
#2 humanmind Jul 19, 2009 1:34:13	Unfortunatly there isn't. I had to tell a friend that I wanted to play another game without him and the reaction wasn't good. Be honest, and explain why you don't want to play with him and if he's a good friend he'll understand.
#3 james88o Jul 19, 2009 1:36:25	way i did it was faking a schedule change at work, telling them that we would regroup when things worked out. I directed them to the forums here in the mean time lol i was a player the dm was hardly a dm he was dropping so much gold and floating castles and stuff to us before lvl 3 that my character had no need to fight anymore why fight if you are swimming in astral diamonds and have a floating castle...? and i supplied all the rule books,dungeon tiles, minis, dice, and focus for the group and when i said other people needed to get their own stuff they kinda replied with "why when you bring all your stuff"
#4 johnhansen Jul 19, 2009 3:22:36	I'm rather baffled as to how to do this without making someone feel bad. I have a group of friends, and we sort of each run a campaign that we play on a rotating basis. On of those just isn't fun for me at all, and I can think of a number of better ways to spend a large block of time. The thing is that I don't want to be a jerk. Any advice? Why is it not fun for you compared to when the others DM.
#5 hidakenshiro Jul 19, 2009 4:33:54	simplest answer: stop caring about peoples feelings... They'll get over it. This game is nothing to get personal over. I've come across several DMs that are just terrible. if you're not having fun then you're doing it wrong and thus ought to stop doing it. Sometimes telling DMs they suck ass (giving examples helps) will actually help them grow.
#6 kuonji Jul 19, 2009 9:25:15	I've done this before. Just be upfront about it. "Bob, I'm not really having fun in this game so rather than bring down the mood of the table, I'm going to sit out and let everyone else enjoy the game. Let me know when you guys want to do something different." This might open up a conversation about why the game isn't fun. Try not to rant/vent too much, just take a neutral tone and explain what you aren't enjoying. Who knows, you might even see some changes and end up having fun in the game, and if not, at least you will have your time back to do other things.
#7 bolo_unit_brl Jul 19, 2009 9:28:01	I agree that the game is nothing to get personal over. On the other hand, if you don't care about other people's feelings, then you'll live a relatively lonely existence. I think the best avenue here is to be honest, but gentle. There is a difference between saying, "I really don't enjoy the game" and giving sincere examples of things you dislike and telling a guy, "Wow, you blow chunks as a DM, call me when you learn some skills." The former method could help someone improve although it's hardly a guarantee. The latter method could lose you a buddy and potentially alienate anyone else from running for you since very few people appreciate that kind of social brutality.
#8 Myztek Jul 19, 2009 9:32:09	If you're doing the rotating thing the situation is a bit more awkward. You might want to consider talking to the other players and seeing if your dentiments are shared. If so, you could talk to the DM in question as a group. If the group wishes to suggest some improvements in style that better fit the players, do so by saying "We really enjoy...", but without saying "We hate it when you..." Often, 'bad' DMs get better with a little realignment. I found that having someone run a well built commercial module can improve their form quite a bit if they have never run one... It is also better to approach the DM as a group if the group devcides it is best for him not to DM. In those instances, focus on it being a style preference and try to avoid any direct insults.
#9 red_wizard Jul 19, 2009 10:34:41	I've never been one to consider feelings, especially over honesty, two which people love and hate me for it. I've long since come to a point where I tell my group what their problems are, and why, and they accept it. This now means we have no group however, which I'm not entirely upset about. 99.99999% of the time, I'm forced to DM, because the others can't or won't do it, and spend all evening either complaining, or splitting the party because their idea of group tactics is "If I think I can do it alone, it must be so". -RW
#10 Escef Jul 19, 2009 10:52:53	I've done this before. Just be upfront about it. "Bob, I'm not really having fun in this game so rather than bring down the mood of the table, I'm going to sit out and let everyone else enjoy the game. Let me know when you guys want to do something different." This might open up a conversation about why the game isn't fun. Try not to rant/vent too much, just take a neutral tone and explain what you aren't enjoying. Who knows, you might even see some changes and end up having fun in the game, and if not, at least you will have your time back to do other things. This.
#11 aekwn Jul 19, 2009 11:15:19	Why is it not fun for you compared to when the others DM. A few reasons it's not fun really, one is that his campaigns are in D20m, which I'm not a huge fan of (not his fault in any way), they tend to revolve around large puzzles which take hours to solve (not my cup of tea), there will only be one or two fights in a whole campaign, and he repeatedly and obviously does things simply for the sake of making the story more rediculous.
#12 greg_k_dup Jul 19, 2009 11:59:32	I've left three groups. All three times, I have been honest about why I was leaving (in all three instances it was a difference between my playstyle preference and the type of game being run and the group was enjoying). I never told the DM that his game sucked, because everyone else was having fun and I recognized their preference to be as valid as my own. In the third instance, the talk led to the DM changing how he ran the game. I had returned to a long term group that I had started, but left for a year to focus on school. The current DM was a player that had been the last to join and took over after I had left. Two sessions in, I left my roommate and the others to continue playing in the kitchen. Later, the DM asked why I left and I explained that I didn't want a game that was all dungeon crawls and combat. I wanted to spend time exploring the setting above, interact with NPCs, have a variety of adventures not just dungeon crawls and have those adventures be things that the players sought out based upon our characters motivations, backgrounds and/or the result of things we have done (e.g, some enemy we made along the way) After, hearing me out , the GM breathed a sigh of relief. He and I wanted the same type of campaign. However, he had been running his current game to accomodate one player (whom he brought it after I left), his best friend, whom was 100% Buttkicker, 100% Powergamer, 100% minmaxer and would complain if the group was not exploring dungeons and killing monsters. Nobody else had said anything so he continued to accomodate his friend. Prior to the next game, he polled the other players (excluding his friend) and found they had wanted the same things that he and I wanted. They had not said anything, because they were happy just to have a game. The next game, the DM announced the focus of his campaign was changing.
#13 bigdaddygamebot Jul 19, 2009 12:30:38	I'm rather baffled as to how to do this without making someone feel bad. I have a group of friends, and we sort of each run a campaign that we play on a rotating basis. On of those just isn't fun for me at all, and I can think of a number of better ways to spend a large block of time. The thing is that I don't want to be a jerk. Any advice? If you don't want to be a jerk...then DON'T be a jerk. Be honest about it. It's the same if your buddy invited you over for a type of meal that you didn't enjoy eating. Just be honest and tell him the reasons why you aren't having any fun. Ideally it will result in one of the two things happening. Over time, they change up their playstyle/campaign so it's more enjoyable for you. or They're cool with it and you do something else on the nights their campaign is scheduled. I have some friends whose playstyle in 3.0 and 3.5 that made me want to drink poison. It never got better until I flat out told them what the problem was.
#14 sirkaikillah Jul 19, 2009 12:45:58	Be honest! Buy him a beer first. I like cold beer and it is easier to swallow bitter news with a beer. If he cries tell him it's just a game andnot worth a friendship. Lets face it, there are many more people who want to Dm than actuallly can Dm well. I'm blunt about telling people they are not good DMs. But lieing about it and playing a crappy game just to spare ones feeling does no one any good. Just be honest, acknowledge any hurt feelings, remind them a friendship is more important than a game and dno't forget the beer. Beer is good.
#15 mkill Jul 19, 2009 14:13:59	It is just a game. Honestly, it's not like you tell your wife you want a divorce. If he gets emotional about this, he's probably not relaxed enough to be a fun gaming friend anyway. In fact, I have been told by a group "hey, we don't like your DMing style". Or rather, it was like "that session you gave for us sucked". I got over it pretty quickly, I though they weren't great players either. Turns out our ideas of what a great session is just differed. It happens, I just looked for another group and found one. Here is how I would do it. Ask him politely to make some changes to accomodate you as a player. Something like "The game would be more fun for me if there were more combats", "Can we fight something else but goblins?", "Would you mind handing out some treasure? We're level 7 and fighting with butter knifes", "Your NPCs are bland. I want to act out my character more, can you try to give us more social interaction?", "Your dungeons are just trapfilled temples of doom! I spend hours creating that character, I don't want to lose him to a stupid Perception DC 44 spike trap like Steve lost Bob VII last session!" Whatever your complaint / suggestion is, give your DM a chance to accomodate your wishes. If he refuses, you have a perfect excuse to tell him politely that you'd rather skip his sessions then. If he tries to make the game more fun for you, either you do indeed have more fun and don't want to quit anymore (WIN), or you need to tell him "Sorry, I know you tried and I really appreciate it, but it's just not my style and I'd rather quit".
#16 AaronOfBarbaria Jul 19, 2009 17:02:55	As a DM who runs a wide variety of games in a wide variety of styles and themes, I have experience with players not being interested. From my personal experience there are three ways that a player concerned about seeming like a jerk will leave a game: 1) tell the DM they aren't interested in that sort of game, and remove themself from it gracefully. Or 2) lie about why they aren't there for the game, or 3) just stop showing up and not actually offer a reason as to why. I recomend being honest about it... as the other two have an outside chance of causing the group in general (and the DM especially) to develope a bit of hard feelings which might result in a general decline in the amount of times you are invited to join in on new games - I know I have one player that the group in general, and myself especially (as the DM), have near entirely stopped mentioning new games to because of his recent streak of missing games without explanation (including his own).
#17 salla Jul 19, 2009 18:41:13	A few reasons it's not fun really, one is that his campaigns are in D20m, which I'm not a huge fan of (not his fault in any way), they tend to revolve around large puzzles which take hours to solve (not my cup of tea), there will only be one or two fights in a whole campaign, and he repeatedly and obviously does things simply for the sake of making the story more ridiculous. I'd just mention the first part, that you don't like d20 Modern. That definitely spares his feelings, and is honest. It's the truth, just not the whole truth. I've done similar things with GMs in my group ("World of Darkness? Too gloomy and depressing for me." "L5R? Japan isn't my thing.").
#18 drackthor Jul 19, 2009 18:55:27	We have the same basic thing. Multiple people want to DM, but only one or two members of the group show a real aptitude for DMing. Since we have something of an erratic schedule, we generally only get to do one adventure per session, so someone has to go over someone else. What I do, I let people know in advance that I will play four adventures of their campaign before deciding whether I will keep playing that campaign. If by four adventures you can't set even a hint of interest off, this is not something I want to commit valuable time to. The other players also decide whether or not they're enjoying something, and have their own methods.
#19 etarnon Jul 19, 2009 19:16:29	Things I have said: "Our styles are a mismatch." "The game we're playing is not what you advertised." "There's more combat than roleplay, and I was told it would be 50 / 50." For me it usually isn't about the players, per se, more about the lack of depth of the game. Best of luck.
#20 CCS Jul 20, 2009 2:06:20	Why is it not fun for you compared to when the others DM. Why's this matter? Obviously the DM runs games that aren't to the OPs taste....
#21 shadow_viper Jul 20, 2009 3:42:53	Why's this matter? Obviously the DM runs games that aren't to the OPs taste.... Why does it matter if it matters? It's still a valid question.