The DM is very tough - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

The DM is very tough

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
canuk
Nov 18, 2009 19:13:11 Hey guys I just want your ideas on what I should do about a DM who considers any adventure that doesn't have at least 2 PC deaths or near TPK is an adventure for wuss's. Personally I like character development which no one can get since they keep dieing and the only person with character development is the ninja who lives by running away all the time. I think it's unfair that the guy is running away all the time is currently the leader due to his character development gets development at all. Sorry for the rambling but what do you think I should do?

#2
salla
Nov 18, 2009 21:19:16 Don't play under him, bottom line. If he asks why, tell him precisely that; there's no point to giving a character a background and personality if it'll take more time to make that up than the character is going to live. The days of killer DMs are gone; this dinosaur needs to pull his head out of the past.
#3
whtetyger
Nov 18, 2009 21:20:02 um, Talk to the DM?

You two have obviously differing styles of play. Your hope is that he is willing to come halfway and you do likewise. If not or if that is not acceptable start looking for a DM that runs the game you want. The best games IMO include various styles into something that hooks everyone.

If the difficulty is to much try to state why without attacking his game.
#4
canuk
Nov 18, 2009 21:29:10 I've tried talking to him and don't want to stop playing theres no other games in my area I checked.
#5
brassbaboon
Nov 18, 2009 21:31:28 Talk to him. Bring the DMs Guide and tell him you feel that you have different goals than he does. Show him the section in the Guide that describes different character types. Let him know that you are more of a story teller than a power gamer. Or whatever fits your style. Let him know that there is a style mismatch and that it is interfering with your idea of what should be fun.

If he's reasonable, he'll listen. If he's not, then he's probably not a good DM anyway.
#6
whtetyger
Nov 18, 2009 21:41:59 Start a new game. If you have tried talking and you think there is no possible way to convince him to change his game either suck it up or walk.

If you wont do that. Have your character avoid combat. Things look bad run. Make a character with good escape abilities. Spend as much time in towns talking to NPCs. Ask the BBEG where can you sign up and does he offer medical. Convince the group to do this. When the DM complains you arent going into the Dungeon of Deathly Death tell him your character likes a good chance of coming out alive so why would he go there.
#7
Krusk
Nov 18, 2009 22:39:10
Talk to the other players, get a consensus.

"Hey DM I really am not enjoying your current 'kill loads of PCs always' style of DMing. Is there a way you can try to tone that down? We have all considered leaving the group if this does not change, but we do enjoy DND with you, so we would rather not."

If the DM changes - "Thanks for adapting your DM style to what the group wants. You're the best!"

If the DM does not- Consider how much you like the DM's game. Leading to one of two actions.

1- Suck it up and keep playing.

2- Prove you were not bluffing. Stop coming to a few games. Tell the DM "Hey, we were serious when we asked you to tone down the difficulty. We aren't going to make it to next weeks game, or anymore really but as an unrelated note I/Bill/John/Sue is running a game on the following night, if you would like to come as a player. It might be a good experience for you to see the style of DMing we would prefer to play. After my/Bill/John/Sue's game, if we feel like you got the idea you are welcome to pick up and DM again and we would like to play in it. Maybe even finishing off this really interesting plot you had to abandon mid way or starting totally fresh."

I've tried talking to him and don't want to stop playing theres no other games in my area I checked.

There are almost definitely other games in your area. Where did you buy your books. Go stand next to the display pretending to be browsing. When someone else comes by and begins browsing strike up a conversation. They either have a group and might be willing to let you join, are looking to form a new group, or are crazy and enjoy reading RPG books without playing RPGs. Other places to look for groups include www.rpgmeetup.com/ , Local high schools (depending on your age), colleges, (sci-fi clubs, book clubs, chess clubs, anime clubs, drama clubs are all good places to find people in either high schools or colleges. Many even have an RPG club.), local libraries, and even your local game shop (if you can find, or have one).
#8
aesclealm
Nov 19, 2009 2:27:40
Hey guys I just want your ideas on what I should do about a DM who considers any adventure that doesn't have at least 2 PC deaths or near TPK is an adventure for wuss's. Personally I like character development which no one can get since they keep dieing and the only person with character development is the ninja who lives by running away all the time. I think it's unfair that the guy is running away all the time is currently the leader due to his character development gets development at all. Sorry for the rambling but what do you think I should do?

Do two things:

- Talk to the DM, ask him what he expects you to get out of the game. If the answer's not something you like then stop playing with him.
- Start your our game

Cheers,

Ash
#9
Cpt_Micha
Nov 19, 2009 7:28:13
I've tried talking to him and don't want to stop playing theres no other games in my area I checked.

Unless you live in a town population 100 or something and you literally know everyone in town, there are other groups out there. Is there anywhere within a 30minute drive that you can buy D&D books at?

If so, go there and when someone comes into the store and makes their way over to the D&D stuff, strike up a conversation.

Or, go to your local gaming store that has Magic and Warhammer players, chances are there are D&D players there, or potential D&D players.
#10
frostwolf
Nov 19, 2009 7:43:04 Talk or Walk are good rules to fallow for all gaming issues and should always be your first options.

If you can't find games, I'm sure we can all point you to many play by post sites.
www.myth-weavers.com is one I use often.

The only other option is to up the base power on your characters. Just be careful not to go overboard with this, don't get bit by the optimization bug. It is a harsh mistress, leading to infinate combos and PrC abuse.

[Crazy]
Every level becomes a needed fix as you try to cram as much broken tricks into it as you can. Tweaking the same thing over and over untill your outstrapping the entire party and dropping dragons with free actions! Gaah! Daddy needs his fix! Where's my DMM cloistered cleric!?!
[/CRAZY]
#11
nightwalker450
Nov 19, 2009 9:39:23 I thought I was a rough DM... I prefer somebody fall unconcious at least once per session, and I don't think I've ever gotten the same person twice in a single adventure. So its not like I've been playing geek the mage.

I've yet to kill anyone, closest I came was someone laying unconcious next to a needle drake swarm. The fighter changed tactics to push, instead of damage as soon as I pointed it out.

I do this so the players don't feel "safe," but they do feel challenged. And evidently I've given the players enough motivation that I rarely see undue extended rests (I've seen them plow forward with party members at only 1 or 2 healing surges). Usually I'm the one trying to talk them into taking an extended rest.
#12
Antillious
Nov 19, 2009 11:10:04
Next time your character is killed, make another character that the exact same only with a different name (perhaps a brother). Say your character was informed by the dead characters ghost what was happening and that you're here to take his place.

Repeat for each time the character is killed. If the DM balks, just remind him that you'd prefer if your character could live past a single adventure, but since that's not possible, your character comes from a very very large family and will be replaced with the same character (with different name) each time.

Or your next character just needs to be much more pessimistic and bail on the party when things look like they're getting tough. Apparently your DM likes TPKs, I guess they like "winning". So deny him that option and run every time. I'd try to convince the party to run too of course. It seems like that is what your DM wants you to be doing anyway.

Or more seriously, ask the DM what he thinks you guys should be doing instead. Does he expect you guys to be running away, does he want you guys to be munchkining in order to survive? Should you all be stocking up on health potions and salves of power and firing off dailies each encounter? Are there tactics that he is expecting you to use? Different characters/builds that he wants you to be running? Is he anti-RP? Does he like the TPKs and repeated character deaths?

You might suggest that if the DM really wants to just slaughter your characters, maybe you should just be running one off delves or something, as a campaign seems out of the DMs grasp. If your characters don't live there is no continuity.
#13
AaronOfBarbaria
Nov 19, 2009 11:30:11 I once had a DM that was very much like what you describe OP.

The minor difference was that he would contradict himself with his approach (giving us all more powerful characters so that we could handle stuff better, and then upping the challenges to match - effectively doing nothing to the balance) and he would cheat a little because he was sure that his job as a DM was to, and I quote "make up a little plot line that gets the characters into some trouble, and then see how long they last against stupidly hard fights."

He still runs a game occasionally with the few players he knows that are dysfunctional enough to only be able to be in his games since they don't run their own.

Think about that for a second. His table is full of the players other groups in town (mine even) have booted for their horrible habits.

There's the racist player that also thinks talking like people do on 4chan is a valid "character personality" and uses it all the time - in and out of play.
The guy who almost lost his kid because of drug charges, and was later arrested for breaking and entering - and just won't quit that sort of thing.
The guy that would always rules lawyer and be wrong about the rules, and constantly be the loudest person in the room, and never pay attention.
...and the guy that just sits there and doesn't really do anything in play because he is too busy with [insert technological device]

They all join his game because they don't have anyone else they can play under... and won't form their own group and run a game.

Don't be like them, it's bad for you.

I also second everyone's advice so far to talk to the DM about what you want from the game, or why you aren't having fun, and if he doesn't start making some changes - walk away.

Form a group over the internet if you have to.
#14
ukplayerx
Nov 19, 2009 13:29:37 I like Antillious' reply, next time you make a character don't fill in the name and run off some copies - when your character is killed, whip out another character instantly and get straight back into the game...in fact encourage the rest of the players to do this for 2 or 3 more games then all walk at the same time. If another player loses a character give them one of your Insta-Characters© that they can have the pleasure of naming themselves. :D

Another, immature method (but good for a cheap laugh), is ensure that no-one turns up for the game apart from the ninja player (see questions later), don't answer the phone for the evening or go see a movie without ninja player and DM

i've never had a DM like this, but know several players who had the misfortune of their...er....hmmm...'abilities'

Seriously though how does the ninja player feel about this? Is he ok with it coz he's levelled and party leader? Do the DM and Ninja player socialise more outside the games than the rest of you?

But yeah..talk first, then if no joy, walk.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 canuk Nov 18, 2009 19:13:11	Hey guys I just want your ideas on what I should do about a DM who considers any adventure that doesn't have at least 2 PC deaths or near TPK is an adventure for wuss's. Personally I like character development which no one can get since they keep dieing and the only person with character development is the ninja who lives by running away all the time. I think it's unfair that the guy is running away all the time is currently the leader due to his character development gets development at all. Sorry for the rambling but what do you think I should do?
#2 salla Nov 18, 2009 21:19:16	Don't play under him, bottom line. If he asks why, tell him precisely that; there's no point to giving a character a background and personality if it'll take more time to make that up than the character is going to live. The days of killer DMs are gone; this dinosaur needs to pull his head out of the past.
#3 whtetyger Nov 18, 2009 21:20:02	um, Talk to the DM? You two have obviously differing styles of play. Your hope is that he is willing to come halfway and you do likewise. If not or if that is not acceptable start looking for a DM that runs the game you want. The best games IMO include various styles into something that hooks everyone. If the difficulty is to much try to state why without attacking his game.
#4 canuk Nov 18, 2009 21:29:10	I've tried talking to him and don't want to stop playing theres no other games in my area I checked.
#5 brassbaboon Nov 18, 2009 21:31:28	Talk to him. Bring the DMs Guide and tell him you feel that you have different goals than he does. Show him the section in the Guide that describes different character types. Let him know that you are more of a story teller than a power gamer. Or whatever fits your style. Let him know that there is a style mismatch and that it is interfering with your idea of what should be fun. If he's reasonable, he'll listen. If he's not, then he's probably not a good DM anyway.
#6 whtetyger Nov 18, 2009 21:41:59	Start a new game. If you have tried talking and you think there is no possible way to convince him to change his game either suck it up or walk. If you wont do that. Have your character avoid combat. Things look bad run. Make a character with good escape abilities. Spend as much time in towns talking to NPCs. Ask the BBEG where can you sign up and does he offer medical. Convince the group to do this. When the DM complains you arent going into the Dungeon of Deathly Death tell him your character likes a good chance of coming out alive so why would he go there.
#7 Krusk Nov 18, 2009 22:39:10	Talk to the other players, get a consensus. "Hey DM I really am not enjoying your current 'kill loads of PCs always' style of DMing. Is there a way you can try to tone that down? We have all considered leaving the group if this does not change, but we do enjoy DND with you, so we would rather not." If the DM changes - "Thanks for adapting your DM style to what the group wants. You're the best!" If the DM does not- Consider how much you like the DM's game. Leading to one of two actions. 1- Suck it up and keep playing. 2- Prove you were not bluffing. Stop coming to a few games. Tell the DM "Hey, we were serious when we asked you to tone down the difficulty. We aren't going to make it to next weeks game, or anymore really but as an unrelated note I/Bill/John/Sue is running a game on the following night, if you would like to come as a player. It might be a good experience for you to see the style of DMing we would prefer to play. After my/Bill/John/Sue's game, if we feel like you got the idea you are welcome to pick up and DM again and we would like to play in it. Maybe even finishing off this really interesting plot you had to abandon mid way or starting totally fresh." I've tried talking to him and don't want to stop playing theres no other games in my area I checked. There are almost definitely other games in your area. Where did you buy your books. Go stand next to the display pretending to be browsing. When someone else comes by and begins browsing strike up a conversation. They either have a group and might be willing to let you join, are looking to form a new group, or are crazy and enjoy reading RPG books without playing RPGs. Other places to look for groups include www.rpgmeetup.com/ , Local high schools (depending on your age), colleges, (sci-fi clubs, book clubs, chess clubs, anime clubs, drama clubs are all good places to find people in either high schools or colleges. Many even have an RPG club.), local libraries, and even your local game shop (if you can find, or have one).
#8 aesclealm Nov 19, 2009 2:27:40	Hey guys I just want your ideas on what I should do about a DM who considers any adventure that doesn't have at least 2 PC deaths or near TPK is an adventure for wuss's. Personally I like character development which no one can get since they keep dieing and the only person with character development is the ninja who lives by running away all the time. I think it's unfair that the guy is running away all the time is currently the leader due to his character development gets development at all. Sorry for the rambling but what do you think I should do? Do two things: - Talk to the DM, ask him what he expects you to get out of the game. If the answer's not something you like then stop playing with him. - Start your our game Cheers, Ash
#9 Cpt_Micha Nov 19, 2009 7:28:13	I've tried talking to him and don't want to stop playing theres no other games in my area I checked. Unless you live in a town population 100 or something and you literally know everyone in town, there are other groups out there. Is there anywhere within a 30minute drive that you can buy D&D books at? If so, go there and when someone comes into the store and makes their way over to the D&D stuff, strike up a conversation. Or, go to your local gaming store that has Magic and Warhammer players, chances are there are D&D players there, or potential D&D players.
#10 frostwolf Nov 19, 2009 7:43:04	Talk or Walk are good rules to fallow for all gaming issues and should always be your first options. If you can't find games, I'm sure we can all point you to many play by post sites. www.myth-weavers.com is one I use often. The only other option is to up the base power on your characters. Just be careful not to go overboard with this, don't get bit by the optimization bug. It is a harsh mistress, leading to infinate combos and PrC abuse. [Crazy] Every level becomes a needed fix as you try to cram as much broken tricks into it as you can. Tweaking the same thing over and over untill your outstrapping the entire party and dropping dragons with free actions! Gaah! Daddy needs his fix! Where's my DMM cloistered cleric!?! [/CRAZY]
#11 nightwalker450 Nov 19, 2009 9:39:23	I thought I was a rough DM... I prefer somebody fall unconcious at least once per session, and I don't think I've ever gotten the same person twice in a single adventure. So its not like I've been playing geek the mage. I've yet to kill anyone, closest I came was someone laying unconcious next to a needle drake swarm. The fighter changed tactics to push, instead of damage as soon as I pointed it out. I do this so the players don't feel "safe," but they do feel challenged. And evidently I've given the players enough motivation that I rarely see undue extended rests (I've seen them plow forward with party members at only 1 or 2 healing surges). Usually I'm the one trying to talk them into taking an extended rest.
#12 Antillious Nov 19, 2009 11:10:04	Next time your character is killed, make another character that the exact same only with a different name (perhaps a brother). Say your character was informed by the dead characters ghost what was happening and that you're here to take his place. Repeat for each time the character is killed. If the DM balks, just remind him that you'd prefer if your character could live past a single adventure, but since that's not possible, your character comes from a very very large family and will be replaced with the same character (with different name) each time. Or your next character just needs to be much more pessimistic and bail on the party when things look like they're getting tough. Apparently your DM likes TPKs, I guess they like "winning". So deny him that option and run every time. I'd try to convince the party to run too of course. It seems like that is what your DM wants you to be doing anyway. Or more seriously, ask the DM what he thinks you guys should be doing instead. Does he expect you guys to be running away, does he want you guys to be munchkining in order to survive? Should you all be stocking up on health potions and salves of power and firing off dailies each encounter? Are there tactics that he is expecting you to use? Different characters/builds that he wants you to be running? Is he anti-RP? Does he like the TPKs and repeated character deaths? You might suggest that if the DM really wants to just slaughter your characters, maybe you should just be running one off delves or something, as a campaign seems out of the DMs grasp. If your characters don't live there is no continuity.
#13 AaronOfBarbaria Nov 19, 2009 11:30:11	I once had a DM that was very much like what you describe OP. The minor difference was that he would contradict himself with his approach (giving us all more powerful characters so that we could handle stuff better, and then upping the challenges to match - effectively doing nothing to the balance) and he would cheat a little because he was sure that his job as a DM was to, and I quote "make up a little plot line that gets the characters into some trouble, and then see how long they last against stupidly hard fights." He still runs a game occasionally with the few players he knows that are dysfunctional enough to only be able to be in his games since they don't run their own. Think about that for a second. His table is full of the players other groups in town (mine even) have booted for their horrible habits. There's the racist player that also thinks talking like people do on 4chan is a valid "character personality" and uses it all the time - in and out of play. The guy who almost lost his kid because of drug charges, and was later arrested for breaking and entering - and just won't quit that sort of thing. The guy that would always rules lawyer and be wrong about the rules, and constantly be the loudest person in the room, and never pay attention. ...and the guy that just sits there and doesn't really do anything in play because he is too busy with [insert technological device] They all join his game because they don't have anyone else they can play under... and won't form their own group and run a game. Don't be like them, it's bad for you. I also second everyone's advice so far to talk to the DM about what you want from the game, or why you aren't having fun, and if he doesn't start making some changes - walk away. Form a group over the internet if you have to.
#14 ukplayerx Nov 19, 2009 13:29:37	I like Antillious' reply, next time you make a character don't fill in the name and run off some copies - when your character is killed, whip out another character instantly and get straight back into the game...in fact encourage the rest of the players to do this for 2 or 3 more games then all walk at the same time. If another player loses a character give them one of your Insta-Characters© that they can have the pleasure of naming themselves. :D Another, immature method (but good for a cheap laugh), is ensure that no-one turns up for the game apart from the ninja player (see questions later), don't answer the phone for the evening or go see a movie without ninja player and DM i've never had a DM like this, but know several players who had the misfortune of their...er....hmmm...'abilities' Seriously though how does the ninja player feel about this? Is he ok with it coz he's levelled and party leader? Do the DM and Ninja player socialise more outside the games than the rest of you? But yeah..talk first, then if no joy, walk.