In todays session, my ally's compleatly ignored my +12-14 on my Skills and almost got us all killed. Mostly the Mage is beating on me about being a rogue. So what happened was, we were traking down a Dragonborn, we found him, captured him, and nothing really else happened but he did say were his encampment was. We got there, in the middle of the room, there was a grate big Pile of Platinem Coins, none of which we got because the got insinerated, more on that later.
I said, "Should I go in and look for traps, being my main consern is the middle of the room." Mage goes on about how rogues are untrustworthy, diseatful, and dishonost. I was personaly taken by this, so I desided to get a big stick and pock the bag. Needless to say what happened next [they stuck a deffender with me, I was marked and all that good stuff.]
Now, by this point, me and the deffender heard a lot of traps being triggered. Me being the one not to say "I told you so." was stuck behind a rock laughing my head off, thinking that they deserve it not listening to me. Then the very person that said "You will not go in" said "Why are you laughing, you should have went in and checked for traps." I didn't have a chance to defend myself there, because everyone took his side. Last thing he did before walking out of the hideout, he stepped next to the bag and KABBOOM [I guess I shoulda worned him about the presser plate I saw.]
Well, now that they got hurt pritty bad from that deal, we headed off to the town we needed to go to. There, the mage didn't want anything to do with me. By the time we got to the gates, he said "No bluffing, it will end bad." So before I could say anything, he said that he was sent by the main good guy. The guards thought the guy was crazy and almost kicked us out of town, luckly, I bluffed him out of it. "Sorry, he seems to have forgot that were hear for trading, not to do what he said. He's a little crazy [Natural 20]" We were aloud in, then he yells at me for lieing, even though he almost got us kicked out.
Now, by this time, He didn't want ANYthing to do with me. He goes to the inn the guards told him about, even my and the DM's warning about my 25 Insight vs. 20 Guard bluff. He ran into a bad crowd and almost got killed. I suggested that he better fey step out of there and run for it. He didn't even thank me for the idea, instead, he thanked the guy next to me, protending that it wasn't me who said it.
I donno, but maybe I should go to that place anymore, but the only thing is is thats the only place afordable to go to [gas prices and all.] What do you guys think of not listening to a rogue [personaly, I think they guy hates me?[not the rogue]
I'd suggest handling things calmly. The next time you feel like your getting some kind of attitude, ask the person playing the wizard /politely/ to stop acting like that as it's spoiling your enjoyment of the game. Seeing as it's everyone's job to make the game enjoyable, he isn't doing his part. If it continues past that or the wizard gives you some kind of flippant response, talk to the other players and the dungeon master about it privately. Usually jerks are jerks to everyone, not just specific people.
And if that doesn't work, well I'd start looking for another group. The RPGA is starting Living Forgotten Realms this next month here, so that might be an option. Shard world campaigns are a good way to meet new people.
What I am afead of is haveing to quite DnD for this, because there is really no other place I can find to play it that is within a desnet distence because of gas cost. Sometimes I wonder why he does this, and only to me. Worst part is most of the time, the party agrees with him.
Ya, but he only acts to it to me, never to anyone else, I didn't even do anything too.
What I am afead of is haveing to quite DnD for this, because there is really no other place I can find to play it that is within a desnet distence because of gas cost. Sometimes I wonder why he does this, and only to me. Worst part is most of the time, the party agrees with him.
Then you need to talk to your DM, out of game. Like, in between sessions, contact your DM, explain your frustrations, and ask him for advice. If he, out of game, personally sides with the party, then politely state that, since all of the players clearly feel that your character is not contributing to the group, and since you are personally feeling ostracized by another player, and nobody is willing to stick up with you, that you feel it is best if you no longer play with the group.
Don't be a punching bag. If they don't want you around, the best thing to do is realize that and move on. Continuing with the group will lead to more sour experiences, and instead of the game being a point of fun and stress-relief, it's instead going to add to your stress levels, which will end up most likely manifesting out of game, in a completely inappropriate situation.
Other then that what I can suggest in addition to the advice already posted is to try and establish your role in the party.
If you're good at smooth talking, take the forefront when confronted with such non-combat encounters; same goes with trap-finding/perception, if you're the most perceptive mutha of the lot, then be the forward scout and prove your usefulness.
I play thieves. The kind your wizard is talking about. I've had parties who love me, cuz I do stuff like this and they don't catch me.
Steal his spellbook and plant it on the defender. Generally mages don't like to lose their spellbooks and planting it on the defender should take attention off you for a little. Make sure you look confused when the DM mentions that it's not there and don't smile at at all, be sympathetic. You're trying to help him find his spellbook, because you're a friend. Be reassuring, try to say "We'll find it." twice during the conversation, not one right after the other, and say it again if the matter comes up later and you still haven't "found it." If your games are mostly out of character complain to the DM for the wizard, saying "C'mon, how can you take a wizard's spellbook?" His only response should be a smile. Most important: make sure you work this out with the DM beforehand, and preferably make all rolls beforehand, so people don't get suspicious at sudden unknown rolling for the thievery checks and bluff checks.
I play thieves. The kind your wizard is talking about. I've had parties who love me, cuz I do stuff like this and they don't catch me.
Yeah, except that fixes nothing because the problem is as much out of character as in character, and the DM, so far, does not clearly appear to be supportive of his character.
Yeah, except that fixes nothing because the problem is as much out of character as in character.
At that point you have to do as a previous poster stated and take them aside and say "Ok, I've tried to get along with you but all I get is hostility. I really just want to try to mend things. Help me please." And figure out the problem from there. And if there's still a problem steal his spellbook and have your character run off with it as you leave the game and find a new group.
EDIT: Darnit, you ninjaed me with that edit. The DM doesn't appear to be hostile towards him though. He isn't going out of his way to help the OP, but isn't siding with the other players either. If he's any sort of decent DM at all, he'll swing with most stuff players want to try within reason. If I was DMing I'd fill whatever dungeon so full of traps they'd be begging for the rogue to lead the way.
At that point you have to do as a previous poster stated and take them aside and say "Ok, I've tried to get along with you but all I get is hostility. I really just want to try to mend things. Help me please." And figure out the problem from there. And if there's still a problem steal his spellbook and have your character run off with it as you leave the game and find a new group.
EDIT: Darnit, you ninjaed me with that edit. The DM doesn't appear to be hostile towards him though. He isn't going out of his way to help the OP, but isn't siding with the other players either. If he's any sort of decent DM at all, he'll swing with most stuff players want to try within reason. If I was DMing I'd fill whatever dungeon so full of traps they'd be begging for the rogue to lead the way.
If he was any sort of decent DM at all, he should have already talked to the Wizard and the Rogue, and sorted out what was going on. A decent DM would be able to sense the hostility on the part of the Wizard's player, or at least the offense being taken by the Rogue's player, and would have talked to at least one, if not both, of them by now.
OP: Let us know how it goes with the DM. I hope things can be worked out, but, again, you might have to face the music.
On another note maybe the wizard is attempting to RP and is just going about it in a ham-handed kinda way.
If he was any sort of decent DM at all, he should have already talked to the Wizard and the Rogue, and sorted out what was going on. A decent DM would be able to sense the hostility on the part of the Wizard's player, or at least the offense being taken by the Rogue's player, and would have talked to at least one, if not both, of them by now.
I'm in a similar table row with the cleric in my party but it's because he insists on squelching all my ideas, both IC and OOC and he is very rude about it. He also, despite a cha 18 and a high diplomacy is totally very rude to every NPC. He calls the village elders stupid for not thinking to have had their druid commune with the trees (thus calling the DM stupid). On top of that the three times we've enacted a plan that involved me risking life and limb sneaking in somewhere he found an excuse to come ground pounding in alerting all the monsters to my presence.
My character is too much like me, I try to be tactful and tend to be long winded, but social interactions and reactions are very important. So IC and OOC this character/player just aggravates me to no end. I've tried being taciturn so I don't get mad, but I'm not very good at that so I wind up jumping into the conversation with the elders trying to smooth things over.
It has gotten to the point where I've asked my DM if I can roll up a new player. My rogue is ready to gank the frick out of the cleric and (much like myself) he can't just let things go. I guess the problem is we're both playing characters that are much like ourselves and if he was my coworker IRL I'd probably quit.
The point of this long winded ramble is that when I told the DM for the 2nd time that I'm essentially ready to either walk from the game or come over the table at the player (e.g. there is a real serious problem here) his response was (aside from approving a new character), "Ah, I've been enjoying was enjoying that bit of in character conflict." So- the DMs perspective might not be helpful and his assistance might not be forthcoming.
Ok, I'm just PO'ed about this campain thing I had. Please listen and say what you think the matter is, or what you think of my ally's or me.
In todays session, my ally's compleatly ignored my +12-14 on my Skills and almost got us all killed. Mostly the Mage is beating on me about being a rogue. So what happened was, we were traking down a Dragonborn, we found him, captured him, and nothing really else happened but he did say were his encampment was. We got there, in the middle of the room, there was a grate big Pile of Platinem Coins, none of which we got because the got insinerated, more on that later.
Okay, so far, so good.
I said, "Should I go in and look for traps, being my main consern is the middle of the room."
Makes sense. A huge pile of platinum sitting in guarded in the middle of an encampment screams 'trap' to anybody with two brain cells to rub together. Your phrasing, however, may have indicated that you were simply being greedy and wanted all the money for yourself, rather than the Ackbar Maneuver ("IT'S A TRAP!").
Mage goes on about how rogues are untrustworthy, diseatful, and dishonost. I was personaly taken by this, so I desided to get a big stick and pock the bag.
He was being a jerk, but you probably should have kept your cool and not done something just to spite him. What alignment is your rogue?
Needless to say what happened next [they stuck a deffender with me, I was marked and all that good stuff.]
Was it a fighter or a paladin? If it's a fighter, I don't think he can mark you without attacking you. If it's a paladin, he has to stay right next to you or the power fizzles.Now, by this point, me and the deffender heard a lot of traps being triggered. Me being the one not to say "I told you so." was stuck behind a rock laughing my head off, thinking that they deserve it not listening to me. Then the very person that said "You will not go in" said "Why are you laughing, you should have went in and checked for traps." I didn't have a chance to defend myself there, because everyone took his side. Last thing he did before walking out of the hideout, he stepped next to the bag and KABBOOM [I guess I shoulda worned him about the presser plate I saw.]
Yes, you probably should have. While the whole party was being jerks, they probably didn't deserve to get explodinated.Well, now that they got hurt pritty bad from that deal, we headed off to the town we needed to go to. There, the mage didn't want anything to do with me. By the time we got to the gates, he said "No bluffing, it will end bad." So before I could say anything, he said that he was sent by the main good guy. The guards thought the guy was crazy and almost kicked us out of town, luckly, I bluffed him out of it. "Sorry, he seems to have forgot that were hear for trading, not to do what he said. He's a little crazy [Natural 20]" We were aloud in, then he yells at me for lieing, even though he almost got us kicked out.
Blue Wizard needs butt kicked, badly.Now, by this time, He didn't want ANYthing to do with me. He goes to the inn the guards told him about, even my and the DM's warning about my 25 Insight vs. 20 Guard bluff. He ran into a bad crowd and almost got killed. I suggested that he better fey step out of there and run for it. He didn't even thank me for the idea, instead, he thanked the guy next to me, protending that it wasn't me who said it.
That's just frickin' rude. On the other hand, he might be severely overplaying the whole Eladrin Snootiness factor.I donno, but maybe I should go to that place anymore, but the only thing is is thats the only place afordable to go to [gas prices and all.] What do you guys think of not listening to a rogue [personaly, I think they guy hates me?[not the rogue]
I'm wondering if the wizard's player hasn't been burned by a jerk-rogue in past editions of the game; the ones who do steal from and backstab the party and cause trouble, and possibly stuck in the 'rogue means thief' mindset from even earlier editions. If I were to speculate, he's been burned by anti-party rogues before, your comment about the money made him think you were one of those players, so it immediately prompted passive-aggressive defensive behavior. It's all probably one big misunderstanding.
Talk to him and the DM at the same time, definitely. Something weird is going on here.
...both IC and OOC and he is very rude about it.....So IC and OOC this character/player just aggravates me to no end...The point...is that when I told the DM for the 2nd time that I'm essentially ready to either walk from the game or come over the table at the player (e.g. there is a real serious problem here) his response was (aside from approving a new character), "Ah, I've been enjoying was enjoying that bit of in character conflict." So- the DMs perspective might not be helpful and his assistance might not be forthcoming.
Emphasis mine. Your DM is not paying attention. First of all, he didn't address the issue the -first- time you pointed out to him that you were getting frustrated out of character, by problems arising both in and out of character. Secondly, you (apparently) stated in no uncertain terms that you were getting frustrated to the point of having to squelch violent feelings. If he didn't say anything to you about this (whether or not you meant it seriously), and if all he said was, "I thought you were doing it for the lulz!!!!oneoneone!1!" then you need to address that with the DM, first.
I don't know, maybe I'm overestimating things here, maybe it's my time from WoD playing with virtually all adults, most of whom have kids themselves, but maturity is something that should be in the DMs arsenal, at least a modicum.
Have you tried talking in private to the guy who plays the wizard, and finding out what his problem is with you?
Smack him in the face. The jerk.
Not helping.
you dont seem to complain thet the player is beeing a jerk on you
just his character on yours
I wanted to play arogue in a warcraft world (long before wow) and my DM said that only Horde addmited rogues, Aliance htought they were untrusworthy and all that
so my description of my character (human alliance rogue) was
"Im a nobleman, I werar no weapons but a short sword and a very delicate chainmail beneath my silk shirt, I like to poke my moustache... goes on into the tipical noble
when the players looked at my sheet, it was LG, I dindt backstab (not knightly), I just feinted (it was an Errol flinn, there was no swashbuckler then)
during the game I was the most knighty, noble and polite of us all, I got myself a magic rapier and kept going
everyone forgot that somewere in my sheet there was a "rogue"
so if you havent beeing playing alot, maybe you could pull a jack out and change some esthetic details of your character so that the group doesnt feel like they are traveling with a thief
many suggestions for this are "sherlick holmes type, male-LaraCroft... Idunno)
(unless you want to play a real scoundrel...)
Smack him in the face. The jerk.
It's true, that isn't exactly helping the situation, but it may not be far from a way to turn the tables.
Let's assume that there is no alternative for this guy other than the group with this Jacka$$ wizard. The DM appears to be unwilling to intervene. So Carpe Diem this biatch and start harassing the guy. If he is refusing to allow you to have any fun, counter this by creating your own fun at his expense. If he gets angry about this and tries to tell you to stop, ask him if he's willing to let up on your character. Your response should match his.
Of course, I understand as both a player and a DM that this may not be the best solution, but in a similar situation (the other players didnt side with the antagonist, but were generally apathetic) our monk beat up our cleric because he was being a jerk to her. He moderated a little, and the DM became more aware of the seriousness of the situation because of the incident.
On the other hand, ditto all the talking stuff people have mentioned.
Of course, this might not be recommended.
As some others have stated, I would suggest you talk to the DM one-on-one, outside of the game and explain clearly that there IS a problem and how much its ruining the whole experience for you.
If the DM doesn't seem to understand or is UNsympathetic - then I really think you're best course is to walk away.
Understanding that you WANT to play, and it may seem that his is "the only game in town" - its NOT fun to "be the punching bag". Its just not worth it to put up with this grief if its that awful. Its NOT worth it.
Do you have any friends that might want to start their own group? It may *seem* like this is the only game available - but I'll bet if you really looked, you could find better people and a place to play.
But even if you can't - is it really worth putting up with that crap to be abused in a game?
My usual response to these threads is "This is an out of game issue. Talk to the player and/or GM and see whats up." Just...there seems to be alot of this happening, and after offering the same advice, I'm starting to wonder if I'm wrong, and I should just go with the gut-level reaction which is "Smack the guy, and go, DUDE seriously, WTF?"Sorry
Heh. I deny the Smack the guy part, but I agree that Dude, Seriously, WTF is a valid approach.
this approach can prevent the situation from escalating out of control and even ease the hostility. Just remember to respond if the wizard actually talks to you (be respectful, don't stoop all the way down to his level.)
Eventually one evening the whole thing blew up. The other player got really ****** at me for something or another...and from what I could remember, I was trying to get him to get a turn (our party was split and while some people were engaged in combat, his character and mine (and a few others) were in town buying stuff or what not...and I was trying to let the DM know that some of the others should get a turn too....not only the ones the combat (I think this was when 3.0 first came out...). One thing led to another and we ended up in a shouting match.
Within ten or fifteen minutes, I was out the door and never returned (sorta). I left and stopped gaming with the group (whom (I've been gaming with for probably well over a decade) since we were gaming at that player's apartment. Our regular group DM stepped in and tried to reconcile the situation but honestly, the other guy was just not ready to try and be friends, and I think he just didn't like me or something. We probably hung out TOO much as we got together regularly for church, for volunteering in youth ministry, and for games...and well, the girls really weren't talking with him at church (shallow people seriously) nor me for that matter...and I think we were taking our frustrations there to the gaming table.
I didn't game with that group until now...when 4e came out. What is that? Five, six, seven years? In fact, I rarely gamed at all...once in a while I'd get the group DM/GM to come out to one shot games at the local gaming store and I was starved for some good roleplaying...and good roleplaying we rarely got. I'm finally back into the group as we started 4e, and well, I'm having a hard time with the party dynamics. We have a few powergamers, including the player I have problems with...and so far we faced one party wipe (they just keep RUSHING in and getting wiped...nothing like other game versions, plus it helps that I'm running another game so I know how the system works) and several serious close calls.
The other player and I are getting along somewhat, but we no longer hang out in real life...I choose not to, plus most of the gaming group no longer really hangs out on non-game nights anyhow. The player still doesn't quite understand the concept of teamwork, and I'm barely holding the party together some days (our party split in half, so we only have one of the two powergamers...and since my character is the defender, most characters center around her (my character). Some days it feels tense still, but whatever, I'm gaming again...
Some times some things can't be helped...if two players are really at each other or one really has it out for the other...sometimes for the best of the party, one player should leave. Sucks if it's you. But also sucks if the whole party is sorta against you in the first place.
Best of luck and I do hope things work out for the better...and that it's only an in-game thing, cause for me, I not only lost my gaming group (whom I've been with since middle school) but I also lost a "friend" in the process.
Fox
The first thing you should do, is ask the player out of game (before or after a session) if he is just roleplaying. It's quite possible that the CHARACTER of the wizard hates thieves/liars (possibly he's a LAwful-Good wizard) but the PLAYER might not have a problem with you.
In character conflict can be a lot of fun as long as the players like and respect each other. It's clear here that this player didn't build that 'friendship' relationship you YOU before having his wizard dislike your rogue, and that is very unfortunate.
If they start tossing things that dont excist or ignore rules or such. Then just say Exactly that there ignoreing rules Ignoreing your character. AND then leave With all the loot next time around.
He Beleves Rouges are Untrustworthy and all? THEN Become Untrustworthy and prove him right and then backstab him When they go That its your fault just say "Hey The wizard keept saying I Was untrustworthy So im going to prove him right"
That will **** em off. Make sure after words you just Run off.
My group has a core of 4 players, 3 of which are good but not leader types (the party would wander aimlessly unless clues smack them in the face) and one A@#$. We have talked aout dropping that player many times and even went as far as bringing in new guys. Either the players are underaged kids who think d&D is a video game w.o. the TV or worse. The sad thing for us is we seem to be stuck with him...
As far as in game, ignore him. His character really as no grounds to tell you what you can and can't do. If you want to go check for traps, search out something, bluff your way past the guards, do your thing. I agree with a previous poster who pointed out that if your actions "grease the wheels" so to speak for the party they should be less inclined to side with the other guy (unless they are just butt-kissing lackeys, that is another issue entirely).
Whatever you do I would not change your character concept if it involves lowering yourself to his expectations. If you envisioned your character as someone who is generally loyal to the party and just using their particular skill-set to help out, don't turn into a backstabbing, thieving scumbag to prove a point (the point would be his anyway, that you are a scumbag).