Thief: Melee vs Ranged - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Thief: Melee vs Ranged

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
chronohinata
Aug 26, 2013 21:16:51 Hi I'm new and I'm loving this game. I made a thief (Drow) and I'm having some issues.

I don't understand how you can go into melee range without getting completely destroyed unless there's barely any enemies left OR I'm in my Cloud of Darkness.

How can I achieve this and how can it better than attacks from my hand crossbow?

Thanks in advance.
#2
Itaav
Aug 27, 2013 0:13:02 Work together with the defenders in your party, let them mark the enemies you will be close to during your attack.
Sure, the enemy can still attack you, but if they do, the fighter of the party knocks them down.
Thieves are also more hit-and-run characters, so enemies will have less opportunities to attack you if you sneak up to the enemies, attack a few, and hurry back into the shadows (Drow are very good at this).
#3
Centauri
Aug 27, 2013 1:51:26
Hi I'm new and I'm loving this game. I made a thief (Drow) and I'm having some issues.

I don't understand how you can go into melee range without getting completely destroyed unless there's barely any enemies left OR I'm in my Cloud of Darkness.

How can I achieve this and how can it better than attacks from my hand crossbow?

Thanks in advance.

Yeah, you do it by relying on your other party members. The defender, leader and controller all have ways to boost your defenses (both the ones on the sheet and the ones on the field). Any other strikers should be helping to take down tough enemies quickly.

What I don't understand about ranged rogues is how they get combat advantage regularly and reliably. Not every encounter will have viable hiding places. I guess there are feats that can help, and one's allies can grand combat advantage in a variety of ways, but still.
#4
thespaceinvader
Aug 27, 2013 7:40:37 Hidden Sniper/Armour of Dark Deed/Superior Reflexes. Guaranteed CA and concealment as long as you keep attacking.

OP: Thieves are mobile, have decent AC, and some handy get-out-of-troubel cards - you should be fine in melee - and charging is your best way of picking up damage.
#5
Centauri
Aug 27, 2013 8:44:21
Hidden Sniper/Armour of Dark Deed/Superior Reflexes. Guaranteed CA and concealment as long as you keep attacking.

Not until all that comes together. I can't find "Armour of Dark Deed" in the Compendium, but if it's a feat or an item, there will be a delay before that comes together.

OP: Thieves are mobile, have decent AC, and some handy get-out-of-troubel cards - you should be fine in melee - and charging is your best way of picking up damage.

Agreed. I think it's clear that the designers intended thieves to be able to get into melee, but - as with all of the other classes - the probably made some assumptions about who else would be in the party. Don't expect to be self-sufficient.
#6
thespaceinvader
Aug 27, 2013 9:21:33
Hidden Sniper/Armour of Dark Deed/Superior Reflexes. Guaranteed CA and concealment as long as you keep attacking.

Not until all that comes together. I can't find "Armour of Dark Deed" in the Compendium, but if it's a feat or an item, there will be a delay before that comes together.

Sorry, that should be Deeds, not Deed. And yes, it's a 14th level item.

However, Hidden Sniper should work reasonably effectively right from level 1. Hiding is difficult, but having Concealment is not so hard. That, or Cunning Stalker. Plus, first-round CA is reasonably easy thanks to Superior Reflexes, First Strike, etc. But yeah, ranged Rogues do have a tougher time of getting CA than melee ones.
#7
Mad_Jack
Aug 27, 2013 19:26:34
Distant Advantage feat - you have CA against anybody that your allies are flanking. And if you have a defender and another striker in the party, they should pretty much always be flanking somebody and focus-firing them into the ground with a vengeance.

After about 4th level or so, between feats, items, powers and class features you shouldn't be having any problem getting CA on 99% of your attacks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 chronohinata Aug 26, 2013 21:16:51	Hi I'm new and I'm loving this game. I made a thief (Drow) and I'm having some issues. I don't understand how you can go into melee range without getting completely destroyed unless there's barely any enemies left OR I'm in my Cloud of Darkness. How can I achieve this and how can it better than attacks from my hand crossbow? Thanks in advance.
#2 Itaav Aug 27, 2013 0:13:02	Work together with the defenders in your party, let them mark the enemies you will be close to during your attack. Sure, the enemy can still attack you, but if they do, the fighter of the party knocks them down. Thieves are also more hit-and-run characters, so enemies will have less opportunities to attack you if you sneak up to the enemies, attack a few, and hurry back into the shadows (Drow are very good at this).
#3 Centauri Aug 27, 2013 1:51:26	Hi I'm new and I'm loving this game. I made a thief (Drow) and I'm having some issues. I don't understand how you can go into melee range without getting completely destroyed unless there's barely any enemies left OR I'm in my Cloud of Darkness. How can I achieve this and how can it better than attacks from my hand crossbow? Thanks in advance. Yeah, you do it by relying on your other party members. The defender, leader and controller all have ways to boost your defenses (both the ones on the sheet and the ones on the field). Any other strikers should be helping to take down tough enemies quickly. What I don't understand about ranged rogues is how they get combat advantage regularly and reliably. Not every encounter will have viable hiding places. I guess there are feats that can help, and one's allies can grand combat advantage in a variety of ways, but still.
#4 thespaceinvader Aug 27, 2013 7:40:37	Hidden Sniper/Armour of Dark Deed/Superior Reflexes. Guaranteed CA and concealment as long as you keep attacking. OP: Thieves are mobile, have decent AC, and some handy get-out-of-troubel cards - you should be fine in melee - and charging is your best way of picking up damage.
#5 Centauri Aug 27, 2013 8:44:21	Hidden Sniper/Armour of Dark Deed/Superior Reflexes. Guaranteed CA and concealment as long as you keep attacking. Not until all that comes together. I can't find "Armour of Dark Deed" in the Compendium, but if it's a feat or an item, there will be a delay before that comes together. OP: Thieves are mobile, have decent AC, and some handy get-out-of-troubel cards - you should be fine in melee - and charging is your best way of picking up damage. Agreed. I think it's clear that the designers intended thieves to be able to get into melee, but - as with all of the other classes - the probably made some assumptions about who else would be in the party. Don't expect to be self-sufficient.
#6 thespaceinvader Aug 27, 2013 9:21:33	Hidden Sniper/Armour of Dark Deed/Superior Reflexes. Guaranteed CA and concealment as long as you keep attacking. Not until all that comes together. I can't find "Armour of Dark Deed" in the Compendium, but if it's a feat or an item, there will be a delay before that comes together. Sorry, that should be Deeds, not Deed. And yes, it's a 14th level item. However, Hidden Sniper should work reasonably effectively right from level 1. Hiding is difficult, but having Concealment is not so hard. That, or Cunning Stalker. Plus, first-round CA is reasonably easy thanks to Superior Reflexes, First Strike, etc. But yeah, ranged Rogues do have a tougher time of getting CA than melee ones.
#7 Mad_Jack Aug 27, 2013 19:26:34	Distant Advantage feat - you have CA against anybody that your allies are flanking. And if you have a defender and another striker in the party, they should pretty much always be flanking somebody and focus-firing them into the ground with a vengeance. After about 4th level or so, between feats, items, powers and class features you shouldn't be having any problem getting CA on 99% of your attacks.