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To be arcane or divine?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
geldolin
May 30, 2008 1:00:26 Ok. So my brother says that he wants to start a campaign where we're all drow. I said fine. Well, it's really not fine now. He wants to go Scout, which then my stepfather decided to be a Rogue as per usual. That's all fine and dandy regardless of them both being relatively stealthy classes, but that just leaves two people to fill in other balanced party gaps. The other guy who's gonna play is almost certainly going to be a tank, so I'm stuck(as always) being a magic user. Since we're all drow, I was originally thinking of going into the Arachnomancer prestige class. It's interesting and probably underused with some cool bonuses and a very obsessed with minions feel. But now that everyone is going into these specialties, I'm not sure whether I should just plan to be a Warmage to help with damage-dealing or just go with a divine spell-caster. If we end up being renegade drow(the campaign is in the surface world), then being a Cleric is an option; however, I'm confused.

Because the Wizard is the male favored class for a drow, I'm thinking about multi-classing into Warmage for the light armor proficiency and keeping my levels in Warmage so I can be a nuker. Wizard would mainly be for the familiar and being able to scribe scrolls. The other option would be Wizard/Cleric.

Anyone have any insights? Is Wizard/Warmage kind of pointless?
#2
i_roll_ones
May 30, 2008 2:11:57 The Warmage bonus of using light armor only applies to warmage spells.

The familiar is not worth it, it is very fragile and you do not want to spend your spells trying to keep it alive if you don't have any. You also do not want the little pipsqueak to die.

There is an obtain familar feat in one of the Complete series, so you could use that to go pure warmage.

Scribe scroll takes experience, and using it a lot will mean that you lag behind the party, so it is not really worth it.

Also, drow have spell resistance, so make sure that the Warmage spells can ignore it, otherwise, multi-classing will mean that you cannot damage anything.

So yeah, really just pointless, there are better ways to do that sort of flavor.

However! The scout and rogue willl do much better if they can flank something, which means that something will have to be attacking something else...Such as a nice, tanky cleric.

However, in normal drow society, males are treated as slaves and cannot gain too many levels in cleric or go outside by themselves. If you are renegades, and playing in Forgotten Realms, your options for gods are Ellistraee(God of good drow) or Vhaerun(God of evil drow, trickery, deception, conquering the surface). The choice really depends on alignment.

The flavor of the Archanomancer is indeed cool, but the goodies are not going to balance out losing caster levels. You'll have less spells per day, and they will have a harder time beating saves and spell resistance. And unless it is a homebrew setting, it is unlikely that a renegade drow would take levels in it, as spiders are the sacred creature of Lolth(The god that non-renegade drow follow, that likes to have heretics be killed) and drow think of them as her eyes and children.

Nothing wrong with Cleric 20/Wizard 20...Either can be a damage dealer.

But what do YOU want to play? It seems like everyone else is playing what they want without asking the group and being mindful of party balance. It is rude of them to assume that you will go through another campaign playing what you don't want to play. So I suggest talking to them about it. Say that you don't want to be a spell caster, and won't have fun. If they don't acknowledge your side and discuss it...Maybe leave in a polite way.
#3
rodolfomaxi
Jun 02, 2008 11:43:01 YES! I second this that "I roll" said!

Play something you like. And you gonna be happy! No party should trade balance for fun. You need to enjoy it too!

If you want a magic user anyways you could play a "fake druid" if you want to!
Druids have Battlefield control, damage and heal spells and can tank!

Talk to your DM about this custom class ;) !

NOTE:
Fake druid = a normal druid(in mechanics) but with a different feel suited for drow (in Roleplaying ness)!
Who nows...maybe a "Magician" or "Web weaver"...make up a cool name and make some fluff for it!
#4
stormbrand
Jun 02, 2008 13:07:31 Spider-themed druid sounds good to me as well.
#5
lincoln_hills
Jun 04, 2008 17:25:20 Well, an arcane caster's hit points don't stand up well in a group without a healer: so I'd probably suggest a divine caster. That said, shun the usual drow options in favor of something fun... say, an elementalist. Start with a cleric who worships an elemental lord rather than a deity: take the appropriate element domain, and start working toward the Elemental Savant prestige class (is the 3.5 version still attainable by mages and clerics?) It's a good prestige class - not super-powerful, but with tons of flavor. In the meantime, Augment Summoning would be a good feat choice - you can conjure weak minions to give the rogue and scout some critters to help them flank enemies.
#6
StevenO
Jun 04, 2008 18:03:18 This may be late coming but I see a couple options. If I have to chose between have just a divine caster or an arcane caster in a party I'd usually want the divine caster. Healing can be that important. I don't know what the "tank" looks like but with a couple sneaky character I'd probably favor a character who doesn't use heavy armor so the Druid seems like a good option.

Now if you are going with a sneaky party that plans to avoid stand up fights and hopefully taking a lot of damage then I'd consider going with an arcane caster. This may not work for you but starting out as a Beguiler (PHB2) can let you sneak around with the stealthy types and give you INT based spellcasting. You also get Use Magic Device as a class skill enabling you to reliably use Wands of Cure X Wounds later for healing purposes. A nice thing about starting Beguiler is that if you want to expand you spellcasting into the realm of Wizardry it is a great place to start from. Beguiler/Wizard going into Ultimate Magus (CMage) is a great combination. If you are going to multiclass spellcasting types with Wizard this is how I would do it because Warmage/Wizard(/UM) doesn't do so much and Cleric/Wizard(/Mystic Theruge) gives up too much early power.

Now another option I'd consider is a Warlock (CArc) with or without Cleric going Eldritch Disciple (CMage). Warlock is often consider decent at its lower levels and by taking some Cleric and going ED you can get divine support for the higher levels. There are several ways to build this type of character but it is an interesting option that may work for a Drow.
#7
timlagor
Jun 04, 2008 21:11:33 I say play a Rogue or a tank!
When there's no spells it'll be just as much their fault as yours and you will just have to buy consummables when it's essential ..and you'll be able to sneak places rather than fighting all the time.

DO NOT multiclass the warmage. Warmage does not play well with others (other classes that is). You can do things with Rogue/Warmage or Scout/Warmage but they aren't as good as straight warmage.
Wamage is no substitute fro a real arcanist.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 geldolin May 30, 2008 1:00:26	Ok. So my brother says that he wants to start a campaign where we're all drow. I said fine. Well, it's really not fine now. He wants to go Scout, which then my stepfather decided to be a Rogue as per usual. That's all fine and dandy regardless of them both being relatively stealthy classes, but that just leaves two people to fill in other balanced party gaps. The other guy who's gonna play is almost certainly going to be a tank, so I'm stuck(as always) being a magic user. Since we're all drow, I was originally thinking of going into the Arachnomancer prestige class. It's interesting and probably underused with some cool bonuses and a very obsessed with minions feel. But now that everyone is going into these specialties, I'm not sure whether I should just plan to be a Warmage to help with damage-dealing or just go with a divine spell-caster. If we end up being renegade drow(the campaign is in the surface world), then being a Cleric is an option; however, I'm confused. Because the Wizard is the male favored class for a drow, I'm thinking about multi-classing into Warmage for the light armor proficiency and keeping my levels in Warmage so I can be a nuker. Wizard would mainly be for the familiar and being able to scribe scrolls. The other option would be Wizard/Cleric. Anyone have any insights? Is Wizard/Warmage kind of pointless?
#2 i_roll_ones May 30, 2008 2:11:57	The Warmage bonus of using light armor only applies to warmage spells. The familiar is not worth it, it is very fragile and you do not want to spend your spells trying to keep it alive if you don't have any. You also do not want the little pipsqueak to die. There is an obtain familar feat in one of the Complete series, so you could use that to go pure warmage. Scribe scroll takes experience, and using it a lot will mean that you lag behind the party, so it is not really worth it. Also, drow have spell resistance, so make sure that the Warmage spells can ignore it, otherwise, multi-classing will mean that you cannot damage anything. So yeah, really just pointless, there are better ways to do that sort of flavor. However! The scout and rogue willl do much better if they can flank something, which means that something will have to be attacking something else...Such as a nice, tanky cleric. However, in normal drow society, males are treated as slaves and cannot gain too many levels in cleric or go outside by themselves. If you are renegades, and playing in Forgotten Realms, your options for gods are Ellistraee(God of good drow) or Vhaerun(God of evil drow, trickery, deception, conquering the surface). The choice really depends on alignment. The flavor of the Archanomancer is indeed cool, but the goodies are not going to balance out losing caster levels. You'll have less spells per day, and they will have a harder time beating saves and spell resistance. And unless it is a homebrew setting, it is unlikely that a renegade drow would take levels in it, as spiders are the sacred creature of Lolth(The god that non-renegade drow follow, that likes to have heretics be killed) and drow think of them as her eyes and children. Nothing wrong with Cleric 20/Wizard 20...Either can be a damage dealer. But what do YOU want to play? It seems like everyone else is playing what they want without asking the group and being mindful of party balance. It is rude of them to assume that you will go through another campaign playing what you don't want to play. So I suggest talking to them about it. Say that you don't want to be a spell caster, and won't have fun. If they don't acknowledge your side and discuss it...Maybe leave in a polite way.
#3 rodolfomaxi Jun 02, 2008 11:43:01	YES! I second this that "I roll" said! Play something you like. And you gonna be happy! No party should trade balance for fun. You need to enjoy it too! If you want a magic user anyways you could play a "fake druid" if you want to! Druids have Battlefield control, damage and heal spells and can tank! Talk to your DM about this custom class ;) ! NOTE: Fake druid = a normal druid(in mechanics) but with a different feel suited for drow (in Roleplaying ness)! Who nows...maybe a "Magician" or "Web weaver"...make up a cool name and make some fluff for it!
#4 stormbrand Jun 02, 2008 13:07:31	Spider-themed druid sounds good to me as well.
#5 lincoln_hills Jun 04, 2008 17:25:20	Well, an arcane caster's hit points don't stand up well in a group without a healer: so I'd probably suggest a divine caster. That said, shun the usual drow options in favor of something fun... say, an elementalist. Start with a cleric who worships an elemental lord rather than a deity: take the appropriate element domain, and start working toward the Elemental Savant prestige class (is the 3.5 version still attainable by mages and clerics?) It's a good prestige class - not super-powerful, but with tons of flavor. In the meantime, Augment Summoning would be a good feat choice - you can conjure weak minions to give the rogue and scout some critters to help them flank enemies.
#6 StevenO Jun 04, 2008 18:03:18	This may be late coming but I see a couple options. If I have to chose between have just a divine caster or an arcane caster in a party I'd usually want the divine caster. Healing can be that important. I don't know what the "tank" looks like but with a couple sneaky character I'd probably favor a character who doesn't use heavy armor so the Druid seems like a good option. Now if you are going with a sneaky party that plans to avoid stand up fights and hopefully taking a lot of damage then I'd consider going with an arcane caster. This may not work for you but starting out as a Beguiler (PHB2) can let you sneak around with the stealthy types and give you INT based spellcasting. You also get Use Magic Device as a class skill enabling you to reliably use Wands of Cure X Wounds later for healing purposes. A nice thing about starting Beguiler is that if you want to expand you spellcasting into the realm of Wizardry it is a great place to start from. Beguiler/Wizard going into Ultimate Magus (CMage) is a great combination. If you are going to multiclass spellcasting types with Wizard this is how I would do it because Warmage/Wizard(/UM) doesn't do so much and Cleric/Wizard(/Mystic Theruge) gives up too much early power. Now another option I'd consider is a Warlock (CArc) with or without Cleric going Eldritch Disciple (CMage). Warlock is often consider decent at its lower levels and by taking some Cleric and going ED you can get divine support for the higher levels. There are several ways to build this type of character but it is an interesting option that may work for a Drow.
#7 timlagor Jun 04, 2008 21:11:33	I say play a Rogue or a tank! When there's no spells it'll be just as much their fault as yours and you will just have to buy consummables when it's essential ..and you'll be able to sneak places rather than fighting all the time. DO NOT multiclass the warmage. Warmage does not play well with others (other classes that is). You can do things with Rogue/Warmage or Scout/Warmage but they aren't as good as straight warmage. Wamage is no substitute fro a real arcanist.