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Normally I don't do this sort of thing. But the DM about to run a game in two weeks approched me and said he liked how I play my character, being that I'm evil without being blatent about it or a jerk. (actually my character is netural.)
So he gives me a character to run in this game, where I'll be twice the level as rest of the party and aiming to kill everyone else. The goal of it is to make it so that they don't know that I'm evil and going to kill them all.
Except the DM has done four things wrong. First and formost, he is basing this off a game we played a few weeks ago where the entire party was thieves. In that game, one of the players was the "Turn coat" and later joined the other enemies. Second, He pulled me aside suddenly, without any real reason to and talked to me in private about this. Third, he didn't make much of an attempt to hide him giving me papers, or otherwise making it nonchelant. and lastly, He is making the adventure based around my character.
I already know one of the players is thinking something is up, even more so when I'm playing a "human" character, as whenever i've been allowed to, I've always played Lupins. I've used the excuse I've asked the DM to make me a pregen... but that is pretty weak since the player knows I don't trust the guy very much. This DM though is the one who is playing a super lawful good calvilier while I had been in the game before him as my Necromancer (which should spew the thought of me being evil in the first place.)
And well, if he really wants this to be a M. Night movie "What a Twist!" The game needs to be based on a servernt of my "evil badguy" rather than myself.
Normally I don't do this sort of thing. But the DM about to run a game in two weeks approched me and said he liked how I play my character, being that I'm evil without being blatent about it or a jerk. (actually my character is netural.)
So he gives me a character to run in this game, where I'll be twice the level as rest of the party and aiming to kill everyone else. The goal of it is to make it so that they don't know that I'm evil and going to kill them all.
Except the DM has done four things wrong. First and formost, he is basing this off a game we played a few weeks ago where the entire party was thieves. In that game, one of the players was the "Turn coat" and later joined the other enemies. Second, He pulled me aside suddenly, without any real reason to and talked to me in private about this. Third, he didn't make much of an attempt to hide him giving me papers, or otherwise making it nonchelant. and lastly, He is making the adventure based around my character.
I already know one of the players is thinking something is up, even more so when I'm playing a "human" character, as whenever i've been allowed to, I've always played Lupins. I've used the excuse I've asked the DM to make me a pregen... but that is pretty weak since the player knows I don't trust the guy very much. This DM though is the one who is playing a super lawful good calvilier while I had been in the game before him as my Necromancer (which should spew the thought of me being evil in the first place.)
And well, if he really wants this to be a M. Night movie "What a Twist!" The game needs to be based on a servernt of my "evil badguy" rather than myself.
And well, if he really wants this to be a M. Night movie "What a Twist!" The game needs to be based on a servernt of my "evil badguy" rather than myself.
I concur.
What the DM is planning is not going to end well -- it really violates any sense of player-dm trust.
I could go on about this at extreme length, but I'll just leave it at that for now (besides, I need some sleep).
The alternative is run a downer campaign...when the Pc's don't know that you're a villain you really have to go out of your way to screw things up, especially if you're twice the level of everyone else...and even more so if your a caster since you could probably just outright kill them due to higher spell levels, or just go with the simple slit their throats while they're asleep, poison them, etc. If you do insist with playing the evil guy though...I'd either set it up so the Pc's have a chance to win or let them redeem you, but I'd really advise against just killing the party, doesn't exactly make for a fun campaign ending...especially when the whole time the DM essentially railroaded everyone into that ending anyway.
I expect this will end in tears. Keep us posted. 
-DF
Attacking fellow PCs is being a jerk. Even if you're being a jerk with the DM's permission, you're still being a jerk.
Don't be a jerk.
I recommend not trying to kill the party at all.
Attacking fellow PCs is being a jerk. Even if you're being a jerk with the DM's permission, you're still being a jerk.
Don't be a jerk.
^This^
JUST DON'T BE A JERK
I will hate it if my DM told me to do this shiz, so just don't do it. It ain't coolz
Yeah
i hate to say it, but in a round about way, even with your explanation regarding the dm. salla is still right =[
I don't know, this whole thing just seems gimmicky. (I also don't agree with building characters for players)
Overall, i'd suggest telling your DM to sit on it for awhile. And allow you to build a character that you'd enjoy playing.
Play the character.
But play him Good, not Evil. Screw with your DMs plans as much as possible, because no DM should have the audacity to ask you to do such a thing, and assume that you will follow along with his plans exactly as he envisions it. Better to screw with the campaign knowingly and intentionally, then to screw it up by doing something that your DM assumed you knew the character would do.
I will continue to play the character as my brand of evil (which is actually how the DM wants things to go at the start) however its pretty dumb to pretty much openingly say "Screw you DM, I don't care about any of your rules"
I've alerted the one player I can trust to keep this a secret, as my other friend in the group has a very hard time keeping his trap shut, if something is on his mind he can and will say it.
So we've been trying to pick apart the character, finding flaws that the DM overlooked. Beyond the fact the character isn't even legal (****ing "house"rules.) there are features in the character that shouldn't be there.
We use a fusion of 1, 2, and 3rd edition, taking the best rules of them all and developing them further. Two out of the now Three Dms typically can work well with it. This guy running the campain is our third DM. And he is an idiot, as he has both sneak attack and backstab on the character he gave me. One is suppose to replace the other, not both together.
Since i've come to the realization that I'm not a player, but a sub-dm, this gives me the power to fudge rolls and other things that a DM is suppose to do to make the game enjoyable for all players. And so, I'm going to use them to tear apart his character.
The first DM of ours is the player I'm working with to compleatly undermine the Third DMs game. Its obvious that the Third DM has been wanting to start crap for a while now. I have just found out earlier that this character actually wasn't suppose to be mine, but instead a player's who left due to personal issues from the player i'm working with.
The more I read on this character, study and think on how it will play out, the more i realize this is like pitting the players against an epic level blue eyes white dragon (yeah I went there) while they are still like level 3.
The DM though was Kind enough to allow me to chose the name and figure out the AC. Taking in account that many things don't stack, I've got an AC of -3 instead of the -9 he wants me to have. With the name, I know I can give another player or two the ability to figure out what is going to happen. Either I'll choose Lelouch Lamperouge or another name of a classic "I will betray you" anime or movie.
Biggest reason though, why i'm going to pretend to be this DMs "puppet" is so that the other two DMs have one week of break time, and also realize that they should never let this guy DM again.
There's no section in the DMG that mentions how the DM controls your character...PC's are supposed to be -player- characters. Furthermore, if you're doing things like fudging rolls and stuff then...I really don't know what to say, I mean...what are you actually trying to do? Do you want to play the evil character who just murders the party for a twist, or do you not? If its just so the other dms have a break time/make this guy out to be a bad dm that seems really counter productive as you could be doing something that you actually enjoy while the dms take a break instead of making another person look like an ass. Not everyone is good at DMing, I know if someone wasn't happy with my style I'd much rather have them straight up tell me instead of seeking to trick me into being publically humilated.
Personally, I don't like the guy who is DMing. Our First DM doesn't like him. My friend doesn't like him. And thing game is really another nail in his coffin really.
I'm not making him out to be an ass. He is one. But he is kinda like the Wizard of Oz... He sits behind the curtain while using a big glowing head to talk to "the little people". You can call me Toto if you want.
Our goal (Mine and the First DMs) is to make this guy realize how much of an ass he is. Face to face doesn't seem to work, and this probally won't work either. Me and him are going to talk it out and figure out what we need to do with this Third DM, how and if we should really undermine is game.
Though it is also funny how you told me to undermine his game either by being a drone or being a real **** and playing the character "good". And basically tricking this guy into being publically humilated. Then tell me that I shouldn't do it. Maybe you've got a duel personality thing going on too eh?
If you don't like the guy, and don't like the way he DMs, why don't you just not play with him?
....aaaaand Salla rolls a nat 20.
Otherwise, you could actually try to help this guy out.
Sometimes DM's just get an idea that they can't work out on their own.
Why don't you just take that char sheet you got, toss it out, remake the "PC" into something legal for your game and just make it like 1 level higher then the other PC's?
It's obvious that this Third DM respects you enough for him to ask you to play something like this, a semi-npc. So I'd say, either give the guy a hand or tell him no directly. No reason to "start playing out that character in real life". (By stabbing the unsuspecting DM in the back ... whilst sneak-attacking
And no, I don't think he really respects me at all. He just wants to see the puppets dance, and well our first DM and I have begun setting up the dance.
Portable Hole and bags of holding. He's also gonna play a character who was forbidden to play earlier in the group.. but new name. Its actually pretty darn fun trying to figure out how to kill this character.
However, our first Dm is thinking about leaving the group when the ass is there, which means then I've got much less reason to actually play as well. I'm only staying right now because I've two good friends in the group and this guy only shows up every other week.
I would have to thank the Third DM in "teaching" me the rules of the game though, cause he keeps challanging things, which causes me to go read a rule book on it to figure it out and call him on it. (This is of course done while he is the player.) Now I can recall things from memory with nearly 100% accuracy in second edition as well as 3.5 and 4th.
Also, I'm not an agresser. I don't confront a person really face to face, but I am a passive agressor and fight from unseen angles.
So yeah, we've figured out the stratagy to undermine the puppet dance, and my friend (the first DM) Is also trying to figure out what to do with this jerk, and how it effects the rest of the group.
If you still want to play something and the DM just has to use his Jerk Idea, offer a compromise. Suggest he run a game of Paranoia instead where his Jerk Idea fits right in. Everyone knows going in what to expect, so the Jerk Idea wouldn't be a Jerk Idea any longer.
However, the most suprising thing is that one of the players is very gun hoe on this hole thing even though she knows that the DM enjoyed her campain when she had a person who betrayed the party in her campain. (she is our Second DM)
So far though, Its probally not going to come down to me having to do anything at all. One party member lost his ability to speak, our priest can't heal people or he might turn them to stone, and our lawful neutral paladin is just waiting for the chance to kill the other two party members for great justice. (Hates choatic alignments.)
So yeah... Even if I am suppose to be the big boss.. The party member who lost his voice did so because he badmouthed a god who just helped him recover his shattered arm.. This one will probally kill himself due to his own greed. Our priest will probally kill himself because he is also a wild mage and has created some extreamly big fireballs. And our paladin is so upstanding, she'll probally kill half the party for me. She trusts me because I wear white robes and say I'm a worshiper of Buhamet.
And ... smack some sense into that paladin player
Honestly, if I were you right now, I'd probably back out of that game and wait until everybody killed eachother, the players that is, and hear about it in the next campaign.
Good luck to you buddy.
I think this entire game qualifies as a train wreck in progress at this point ...
It was a train wreck the moment they had this guy DM. But at least I got something out of it now.. I learned of some new spells that are just plain awesome. (Have saved the party a couple of times now because of them.)
I think this entire game qualifies as a train wreck in progress at this point ...
+1
Well we played through the session.. Apperntly I was wrong. Its not going to be a one nighter.
However, the most suprising thing is that one of the players is very gun hoe on this hole thing even though she knows that the DM enjoyed her campain when she had a person who betrayed the party in her campain. (she is our Second DM)
So far though, Its probally not going to come down to me having to do anything at all. One party member lost his ability to speak, our priest can't heal people or he might turn them to stone, and our lawful neutral paladin is just waiting for the chance to kill the other two party members for great justice. (Hates choatic alignments.)
So yeah... Even if I am suppose to be the big boss.. The party member who lost his voice did so because he badmouthed a god who just helped him recover his shattered arm.. This one will probally kill himself due to his own greed. Our priest will probally kill himself because he is also a wild mage and has created some extreamly big fireballs. And our paladin is so upstanding, she'll probally kill half the party for me. She trusts me because I wear white robes and say I'm a worshiper of Buhamet.
Oh my. It's a whole playing group of Real Jerks. I know there's not supposed to be a One True Way of playing, but really. Do these people even know it's possible to play D&D in a way completely opposite to this? This isn't a party; it's a group of individuals who just happen to be attacking the same BBEG then eventually each other with a DM laughing his hiney off.
Better to let out your aggressions here than be a sniper at a mall I suppose. It's stuff like this that gives D&D a bad name when a real sniper in a mall just happens to play D&D.
3.5 there seemed to be a bit of a shift, where you start having people playing the game for fun as a whole rather than fun of the individal. None of the 3.5 groups I've been in so far have been as jerkish as the 2.0 game. Other than the DM though, the others are sort of fun jerks to play with, cause while they hoot and hollar on how they are going to kill each other.. so far I've yet to see anything really show that they will follow through with thier barking.
Then 4.0 everyone seems to be the other kind of jerk, where they are the ubar l337 kind. Not so much an edition thing.. Just people in general. Lucky for me though, its going to be about 4 weeks till I have to play this DMs game again cause I'm going to end up missing teh next session. :D
(The 3.5 game I play though is a lot of fun, but we bullcrap alot in that one. I'm currently playing a talking riding dog/dragon thing that is a warlock and serves as one of the other players mounts from time to time. I'm also the charasmatic leader of the party.. go figure.)
Also, I'm not an agresser. I don't confront a person really face to face, but I am a passive agressor and fight from unseen angles.
You know there is a reason that "passive aggressive" is used as an insult/demonstration of another's character flaw. Most normal people hate it when somebody else is passive aggressive. I wouldn't put up with playing with you and I'm glad all the madness is confined in one location.
I think this entire game qualifies as a train wreck in progress at this point ...
I'm picturing the ye old steam engine train of the 1850's that dives off a broken bridge
Also, I'm not an agresser. I don't confront a person really face to face, but I am a passive agressor and fight from unseen angles.
You know there is a reason that "passive aggressive" is used as an insult/demonstration of another's character flaw. Most normal people hate it when somebody else is passive aggressive. I wouldn't put up with playing with you and I'm glad all the madness is confined in one location.
You know the way you confront me like this.. I'm glad you aren't playing with me, because then I'm not playing with you. Because I'd probably punch you. In the face.
Cause you know. Apperently I didn't get the memo that most normal people like being punched in the face.
though perhaps, it may be because I used the wrong words. Maybe I didn't. But I tend to find that when I openly confront people, such as I am doing right now, they tend to get all uppity up up. So when I say Passive aggressive, perhaps I actually mean causing aggression without punching people in the face, or screaming at them, or other wise calling them a miserable piece of garbage to thier face.
I attempt to take out my frustations in other ways or divert when I have problems with people usually, rather than blowing up and insulting the everliving daylights out of them. Such as with this DM. I have problems with him, I come here to try and learn from people who might have actually been there, and instead I get people who are all "Oh don't play with him then, go find another group to play with" because obviously with them they have groups growing on trees and have no ties to the other players besides the game. (Thus allowing them to be easily severered.)
Currently one of my friends in the group is exploding in letters to the rest of the group about how much he hates the current DM because it so closely resembles one of the other DMs he had played under. One that they managed to kick out of the group before, but it continues to keep biting him in the rump as he is constantly getting pestered by old members about allowing this other jerk back in.
So look, I don't need snarky comments by you, salla or anyone else. I can't leave the group unless I don't want to hang out with the other people (the people I actually like) anymore, because currently, this is the only tie that I have with them. And openly confronting him isn't going to work, because he is very good at talking. He had me believe for a few minutes that a radius was the entire width of a circle. (Its not. Its Diameter) He's actually done it a few times now when he had been confronted with his special "alterations" he did with his character he was playing on explaining why his Str, Con and Dex kept going up beyond 18/00. (in 2.0 the stats pretty much never go up. Rare cases however change that.)
If they don't want to start a new group I'd still suggest leaving and finding an online game as I just honestly don't see you having a good time with this group based on everything you've told us, and while online games do lack the more personal touch of face to face game you'll at least have your sanity.
2nd edition game, my character was the evil turner. I was by far the weakest member of the party(no magic in all magic group). Much earlier in the game, around level 4, my character ticked off an evil god by pretending to be its avatar(weird huh?) I was cursed with a black widow tatoo(god was lolth).
So in 2 games, my weak character framed the other pcs. They were to be executed for all to see. I kneed the half-elf enchanter in the nuts to enhance the effect(could have killed him, but I respect the other players out of game). I gave a great speech about the horrible things to party did.(all spin to make them sound evil) In the end, they managed to prove they were innocent and my character escaped to become an npc.
This worked so well because I made sure to leave gapping holes in my frame job for the other pcs to exploit. The "I wasn't expecting that, awesome!" came from the newer players who missed the game where I was cursed. I made sure every game to ask about the effects of my evil tatoo, and the dm said it didn't do anything. I even tried to get rid of it during a few of the games.
So, things to consider when doing the whole turn on group thing. Are you more powerful than the weakest member? If yes, then don't do this. Reason is that you'll need npcs to provide the muscle. If npcs are doing your will, then the dm is in control; not a possibly irresponsible player. Is there a story reason why you would be evil that some of the pcs would catch on to? If no, then don't do this. If the pcs suspect, they can try to stop it ahead to time. Are you ready to make your current pc into an npc and start a new pc? If no, then don't do this obviously. Do you respect your party enough to not kill them when they are helpless? If no, then go back to dramatic villain school.
After walking out for a week, due to my birthday, I was able to convince him to allow me to change my character.
Came real close a few weeks after that convincing the entire group to drop his campain and continue to play the "thief" campain that this one was based off of.
Being a chronomancer now, I've been able to mess with him real good. >:D
Unlike other DMs he sends like 40-60 monsters at us at a time. The first encounter he sent about 60 skeletons/zombies and some horrors at us from the front, and had about 100 or so orcs/goblins and other creatures comeing in from the back.
So I cast Decay, rotting all the zombies into skeletons and the skeletons into dust. Then I pretty much "sheared" the cliff that the goblins and orcs were running up.. after using a spell that caused a distoration. Gained 2 levels from that due to how a chronomancer gains his extra exp.
I've also successfully stopped two out of three cursed items he had given us this session. As long as I don't identify the item, I can rewind time back a few minutes if I can identify the effects of it.
I'd like to make the observation that drama seems to follow you chanter_hound, especially with other people being in charge or making any sort of decision.
Maybe you should singularly DM? I think you'd be a lot happier if you had all the power.
Maybe you should singularly DM? I think you'd be a lot happier if you had all the power.
Why do you hate chanter_hound's players so much?
Maybe you should singularly DM? I think you'd be a lot happier if you had all the power.
Why do you hate chanter_hound's players so much?
I think that was actually in defense of the players saying the problem isn't with them but with chanter.
Maybe you should singularly DM? I think you'd be a lot happier if you had all the power.
Why do you hate chanter_hound's players so much?
I think that was actually in defense of the players saying the problem isn't with them but with chanter.
Yes, but you must hate them or you wouldn't suggest chanter DM. Those poor, poor players ...