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To were-tiger or not to were-tiger

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
avilonrayne
Apr 23, 2008 21:44:44 I'm attempting to build a two-weapon fighter of doom. I'm looking at two possible builds, either of which will work for the character as a concept. These are 11th level builds, both of which use the Exoticist Fighter in place of the normal fighter (4 exotic weapons instead of all martial weapons, and tumble as a class skill) which is in one of the dragon magazine issues. The druid is replaced with the shifter druid variant from Races of Eberron, and the Weretouched Master is a class that is available only to shifters in the Eberron Campaign Setting book.

Race: Shifter with Longtooth trait, no focus on shifting abilities.

Fighter 1: Katana/Bastard Sword proficiency, TWF, over-sized TWF
Ftr1/Shifter Druid 1: Best Spirit in place of Animal Companion, gives feats
Ftr1/Drd2: Two Weapon Defense
Ftr1/Drd3: BS gives +2 STR
Ftr1/Drd4: meh
Ftr1/Drd4/Weretouched Master 1: +2 STR and natural claws, Quick Draw
Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt2: bonus shifter feat
Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt3: 'Pounce' ability
Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt4: bonus shifter feat, Improved TWF
Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt5: 'Alternate Form' of doom
Ftr2/Drd4/Wrt5: Improved two weapon defense

Race: Wild Elf (as normal elf but -2 INT instead of -2 CON) Weretiger

Fighter 1 with 6 Tiger HD and +3 LA (Ftr1+9): TWF, Over-Sized TWF, weretiger feats, alternate form of doom, DR 10/silver, unlimited transformations with no duration
Ftr2+9: Improved TWF

While the shifter build has more attacks, the weretiger has more access to the uber +12 STR of doom (alternate form of doom). The shifter build has better defenses though with the two weapon defense.

Possible things I was considering: in place of wild shape and all of the druid's armor profs, give it monk AC and speed and ranger favored enemy and tracking abilities (as per UA). Again, more defenses, but less "Go for the eyes Boo!" The speed is nice though...especially if there was a way to get the 'sprint' ability. Lots of long-distance charges ^^ Is there another were-something with a lot of strength that gives sprint? Or maybe a monster feat?
#2
metalmayhem80110
Apr 25, 2008 13:14:36 Honestly, for a TWF build of death you're going the wrong route... I hate to say it, but Dervish can make most other TWF builds cry. I mean when it's said and done (If you took the correct build), their final ability lets you make like 10-12 attacks in a single round.
#3
sunic_flames
Apr 25, 2008 14:20:30 You forgot to add bonus damage. Therefore, your TWF approach will fail. Scout for skirmish is a good means of getting this, and meshes well with Pounce.
#4
avilonrayne
Apr 26, 2008 0:10:00 This is just the first 11 levels...I didn't know what I was going to do for the other 9 yet. Dervish sounds fun though. I like the idea of wading through a mass of monsters while throwing tons of cleaves around. Scout could be a good one too...I'll have to read more about that one. It's a 'move a bit then things die' version of sneak attack right? Oh, and I've decided to go with weretiger for sure. It fits the character more than the other method.
#5
sunic_flames
Apr 26, 2008 8:21:01
This is just the first 11 levels...I didn't know what I was going to do for the other 9 yet. Dervish sounds fun though. I like the idea of wading through a mass of monsters while throwing tons of cleaves around. Scout could be a good one too...I'll have to read more about that one. It's a 'move a bit then things die' version of sneak attack right? Oh, and I've decided to go with weretiger for sure. It fits the character more than the other method.

Move 10 feet, do +xd6 bonus damage. With Improved Skirmish this becomes move 20 feet, do +(x+2)d6 bonus damage.

Since you're doing pouncing charges, you get it every time. And since the alternative is a crapload of weak attacks compared to a smaller number of much stronger ones with far fewer feats (two hander, power attack)... Thou shalt not create a TWF, unless thou art making use of bonus damage. That's not an exact quote. But it's quite telling.
#6
yamishinobi
Apr 26, 2008 17:01:41
I'm attempting to build a two-weapon fighter of doom. I'm looking at two possible builds, either of which will work for the character as a concept. These are 11th level builds, both of which use the Exoticist Fighter in place of the normal fighter (4 exotic weapons instead of all martial weapons, and tumble as a class skill) which is in one of the dragon magazine issues. The druid is replaced with the shifter druid variant from Races of Eberron, and the Weretouched Master is a class that is available only to shifters in the Eberron Campaign Setting book.

Race: Shifter with Longtooth trait, no focus on shifting abilities.

Fighter 1: Katana/Bastard Sword proficiency, TWF, over-sized TWF
Ftr1/Shifter Druid 1: Best Spirit in place of Animal Companion, gives feats
Ftr1/Drd2: Two Weapon Defense
Ftr1/Drd3: BS gives +2 STR
Ftr1/Drd4: meh
Ftr1/Drd4/Weretouched Master 1: +2 STR and natural claws, Quick Draw
Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt2: bonus shifter feat
Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt3: 'Pounce' ability
Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt4: bonus shifter feat, Improved TWF
Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt5: 'Alternate Form' of doom
Ftr2/Drd4/Wrt5: Improved two weapon defense

Race: Wild Elf (as normal elf but -2 INT instead of -2 CON) Weretiger

Fighter 1 with 6 Tiger HD and +3 LA (Ftr1+9): TWF, Over-Sized TWF, weretiger feats, alternate form of doom, DR 10/silver, unlimited transformations with no duration
Ftr2+9: Improved TWF

While the shifter build has more attacks, the weretiger has more access to the uber +12 STR of doom (alternate form of doom). The shifter build has better defenses though with the two weapon defense.

Possible things I was considering: in place of wild shape and all of the druid's armor profs, give it monk AC and speed and ranger favored enemy and tracking abilities (as per UA). Again, more defenses, but less "Go for the eyes Boo!" The speed is nice though...especially if there was a way to get the 'sprint' ability. Lots of long-distance charges ^^ Is there another were-something with a lot of strength that gives sprint? Or maybe a monster feat?

you want a weretiger? Dire weretiger mineral warrior human female, (ecl 20, stay in hybrid form 24/7 (say she looks like Aisha from outlaw star), name yourself Aisha clan-clan of the Gtarl Gtarl, max out intimidate with tiger skill points, other good skills are hide and move silently (if int above 10 put a few ranks in jump and climb) remember feast like crazy. your high con is better than any d12 (dire tigers have 24-26 con as far as i know and a 30 strength i believe) remember to yell and scream like crazy. short temper is good for this character.
#7
sunic_flames
Apr 26, 2008 17:21:20
you want a weretiger? Dire weretiger mineral warrior human female, (ecl 20, stay in hybrid form 24/7 (say she looks like Aisha from outlaw star), name yourself Aisha clan-clan of the Gtarl Gtarl, max out intimidate with tiger skill points, other good skills are hide and move silently (if int above 10 put a few ranks in jump and climb) remember feast like crazy. your high con is better than any d12 (dire tigers have 24-26 con as far as i know and a 30 strength i believe) remember to yell and scream like crazy. short temper is good for this character.

...You again? *facepaws*

I'd photograph the epic failure of this, but the thread itself is sound.
#8
yamishinobi
Apr 26, 2008 17:43:22
...You again? *facepaws*

I'd photograph the epic failure of this, but the thread itself is sound.

sorry, OP wanted a weretiger, so i posted one from anime culture. (16 hd and +4 ecl isn't bad for a dire weretiger. though it sucks for everyone else. but it isn't optimal. but makes great party comic relief assuming ecl 20. bad stuff happens to the weretiger for no reason, like a stream of bad luck. the point isn't optimization. it's that you get 2 drs 10 silver and magic and 8 adamantine it is the only weretiger build i could think of, oh wait, buyoff happens in epic levels, good things to take would be barbarian. more aisha clan clan goodness. thank you outlaw star.)
#9
avilonrayne
Apr 27, 2008 8:13:52 Yeah... Aisha and this character are two totally different animals (I love Outlaw Star though, and she is one of my favorite characters)... also, it's very specifically an 11 ECL build to start, with the later 9 levels guaranteed to be class levels. LA + racial HD cannot exceed 9 total. Also, weretiger is almost a definite, as opposed to weretouched master. Exoticist Fighter 2 is looking quite tasty as the first couple class levels... free exotic profs in place of martials (Katana cause it's pretty, greatbow cause it's big, etc), TWF, Oversized TWF (two katanas!), and Improved TWF with just those two levels. From there, dunno. It's ECL 11 with only +6 BAB not much that can be done when dealing with LA though.
#10
sirdane
Apr 27, 2008 19:33:36 Personally, the way I went around it was to build a human that born with lycanthropy from the monster manual and another book that helps is Findley, Nigel. Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts (TSR, 1993). Then I made my human a druid and I'm focusing him on seven levels of druid so he gets the 3 wildshapes per day and he also has trackless step which helps. After the levels of druid he's going into Master of many forms, found in the Complete Adventurer (p58.), at eight level, then after that i'm going into the Animal Lord/Cat Lord class to finish it out. That with many feats focused on speed and claw/bite focus will make your character a great druid, or fighter as your character is going toward. Hell, adding fighter levels with druid levels would promote harmony to any fighter character.
#11
avilonrayne
Apr 28, 2008 2:18:39
Personally, the way I went around it was to build a human that born with lycanthropy from the monster manual and another book that helps is Findley, Nigel. Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts (TSR, 1993). Then I made my human a druid and I'm focusing him on seven levels of druid so he gets the 3 wildshapes per day and he also has trackless step which helps. After the levels of druid he's going into Master of many forms, found in the Complete Adventurer (p58.), at eight level, then after that i'm going into the Animal Lord/Cat Lord class to finish it out. That with many feats focused on speed and claw/bite focus will make your character a great druid, or fighter as your character is going toward. Hell, adding fighter levels with druid levels would promote harmony to any fighter character.

The only foreseeable problem with this is that I can't seem to find any way to make more than one melee attack a round with a natural weapon. All the feats and abilities dealing with it only seem to reduce the penalties for one extra attack with each. I'd much rather go berserk with two big swords than hit a whopping three times with claws and a bite.
#12
raxxman
Apr 28, 2008 5:17:27 Surely Warblade with tigers fury. Surely
#13
sunic_flames
Apr 28, 2008 7:44:19 Improved Rapid Strike for the win. :P
#14
sirdane
Apr 29, 2008 21:18:18 What book is Improved Rapid Strike in and where is the orginal Rapid Strike?
#15
sunic_flames
Apr 30, 2008 7:13:47
What book is Improved Rapid Strike in and where is the orginal Rapid Strike?

Draconomicon, Draconomicon. :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 avilonrayne Apr 23, 2008 21:44:44	I'm attempting to build a two-weapon fighter of doom. I'm looking at two possible builds, either of which will work for the character as a concept. These are 11th level builds, both of which use the Exoticist Fighter in place of the normal fighter (4 exotic weapons instead of all martial weapons, and tumble as a class skill) which is in one of the dragon magazine issues. The druid is replaced with the shifter druid variant from Races of Eberron, and the Weretouched Master is a class that is available only to shifters in the Eberron Campaign Setting book. Race: Shifter with Longtooth trait, no focus on shifting abilities. Fighter 1: Katana/Bastard Sword proficiency, TWF, over-sized TWF Ftr1/Shifter Druid 1: Best Spirit in place of Animal Companion, gives feats Ftr1/Drd2: Two Weapon Defense Ftr1/Drd3: BS gives +2 STR Ftr1/Drd4: meh Ftr1/Drd4/Weretouched Master 1: +2 STR and natural claws, Quick Draw Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt2: bonus shifter feat Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt3: 'Pounce' ability Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt4: bonus shifter feat, Improved TWF Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt5: 'Alternate Form' of doom Ftr2/Drd4/Wrt5: Improved two weapon defense Race: Wild Elf (as normal elf but -2 INT instead of -2 CON) Weretiger Fighter 1 with 6 Tiger HD and +3 LA (Ftr1+9): TWF, Over-Sized TWF, weretiger feats, alternate form of doom, DR 10/silver, unlimited transformations with no duration Ftr2+9: Improved TWF While the shifter build has more attacks, the weretiger has more access to the uber +12 STR of doom (alternate form of doom). The shifter build has better defenses though with the two weapon defense. Possible things I was considering: in place of wild shape and all of the druid's armor profs, give it monk AC and speed and ranger favored enemy and tracking abilities (as per UA). Again, more defenses, but less "Go for the eyes Boo!" The speed is nice though...especially if there was a way to get the 'sprint' ability. Lots of long-distance charges ^^ Is there another were-something with a lot of strength that gives sprint? Or maybe a monster feat?
#2 metalmayhem80110 Apr 25, 2008 13:14:36	Honestly, for a TWF build of death you're going the wrong route... I hate to say it, but Dervish can make most other TWF builds cry. I mean when it's said and done (If you took the correct build), their final ability lets you make like 10-12 attacks in a single round.
#3 sunic_flames Apr 25, 2008 14:20:30	You forgot to add bonus damage. Therefore, your TWF approach will fail. Scout for skirmish is a good means of getting this, and meshes well with Pounce.
#4 avilonrayne Apr 26, 2008 0:10:00	This is just the first 11 levels...I didn't know what I was going to do for the other 9 yet. Dervish sounds fun though. I like the idea of wading through a mass of monsters while throwing tons of cleaves around. Scout could be a good one too...I'll have to read more about that one. It's a 'move a bit then things die' version of sneak attack right? Oh, and I've decided to go with weretiger for sure. It fits the character more than the other method.
#5 sunic_flames Apr 26, 2008 8:21:01	This is just the first 11 levels...I didn't know what I was going to do for the other 9 yet. Dervish sounds fun though. I like the idea of wading through a mass of monsters while throwing tons of cleaves around. Scout could be a good one too...I'll have to read more about that one. It's a 'move a bit then things die' version of sneak attack right? Oh, and I've decided to go with weretiger for sure. It fits the character more than the other method. Move 10 feet, do +xd6 bonus damage. With Improved Skirmish this becomes move 20 feet, do +(x+2)d6 bonus damage. Since you're doing pouncing charges, you get it every time. And since the alternative is a crapload of weak attacks compared to a smaller number of much stronger ones with far fewer feats (two hander, power attack)... Thou shalt not create a TWF, unless thou art making use of bonus damage. That's not an exact quote. But it's quite telling.
#6 yamishinobi Apr 26, 2008 17:01:41	I'm attempting to build a two-weapon fighter of doom. I'm looking at two possible builds, either of which will work for the character as a concept. These are 11th level builds, both of which use the Exoticist Fighter in place of the normal fighter (4 exotic weapons instead of all martial weapons, and tumble as a class skill) which is in one of the dragon magazine issues. The druid is replaced with the shifter druid variant from Races of Eberron, and the Weretouched Master is a class that is available only to shifters in the Eberron Campaign Setting book. Race: Shifter with Longtooth trait, no focus on shifting abilities. Fighter 1: Katana/Bastard Sword proficiency, TWF, over-sized TWF Ftr1/Shifter Druid 1: Best Spirit in place of Animal Companion, gives feats Ftr1/Drd2: Two Weapon Defense Ftr1/Drd3: BS gives +2 STR Ftr1/Drd4: meh Ftr1/Drd4/Weretouched Master 1: +2 STR and natural claws, Quick Draw Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt2: bonus shifter feat Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt3: 'Pounce' ability Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt4: bonus shifter feat, Improved TWF Ftr1/Drd4/Wrt5: 'Alternate Form' of doom Ftr2/Drd4/Wrt5: Improved two weapon defense Race: Wild Elf (as normal elf but -2 INT instead of -2 CON) Weretiger Fighter 1 with 6 Tiger HD and +3 LA (Ftr1+9): TWF, Over-Sized TWF, weretiger feats, alternate form of doom, DR 10/silver, unlimited transformations with no duration Ftr2+9: Improved TWF While the shifter build has more attacks, the weretiger has more access to the uber +12 STR of doom (alternate form of doom). The shifter build has better defenses though with the two weapon defense. Possible things I was considering: in place of wild shape and all of the druid's armor profs, give it monk AC and speed and ranger favored enemy and tracking abilities (as per UA). Again, more defenses, but less "Go for the eyes Boo!" The speed is nice though...especially if there was a way to get the 'sprint' ability. Lots of long-distance charges ^^ Is there another were-something with a lot of strength that gives sprint? Or maybe a monster feat? you want a weretiger? Dire weretiger mineral warrior human female, (ecl 20, stay in hybrid form 24/7 (say she looks like Aisha from outlaw star), name yourself Aisha clan-clan of the Gtarl Gtarl, max out intimidate with tiger skill points, other good skills are hide and move silently (if int above 10 put a few ranks in jump and climb) remember feast like crazy. your high con is better than any d12 (dire tigers have 24-26 con as far as i know and a 30 strength i believe) remember to yell and scream like crazy. short temper is good for this character.
#7 sunic_flames Apr 26, 2008 17:21:20	you want a weretiger? Dire weretiger mineral warrior human female, (ecl 20, stay in hybrid form 24/7 (say she looks like Aisha from outlaw star), name yourself Aisha clan-clan of the Gtarl Gtarl, max out intimidate with tiger skill points, other good skills are hide and move silently (if int above 10 put a few ranks in jump and climb) remember feast like crazy. your high con is better than any d12 (dire tigers have 24-26 con as far as i know and a 30 strength i believe) remember to yell and scream like crazy. short temper is good for this character. ...You again? facepaws I'd photograph the epic failure of this, but the thread itself is sound.
#8 yamishinobi Apr 26, 2008 17:43:22	...You again? facepaws I'd photograph the epic failure of this, but the thread itself is sound. sorry, OP wanted a weretiger, so i posted one from anime culture. (16 hd and +4 ecl isn't bad for a dire weretiger. though it sucks for everyone else. but it isn't optimal. but makes great party comic relief assuming ecl 20. bad stuff happens to the weretiger for no reason, like a stream of bad luck. the point isn't optimization. it's that you get 2 drs 10 silver and magic and 8 adamantine it is the only weretiger build i could think of, oh wait, buyoff happens in epic levels, good things to take would be barbarian. more aisha clan clan goodness. thank you outlaw star.)
#9 avilonrayne Apr 27, 2008 8:13:52	Yeah... Aisha and this character are two totally different animals (I love Outlaw Star though, and she is one of my favorite characters)... also, it's very specifically an 11 ECL build to start, with the later 9 levels guaranteed to be class levels. LA + racial HD cannot exceed 9 total. Also, weretiger is almost a definite, as opposed to weretouched master. Exoticist Fighter 2 is looking quite tasty as the first couple class levels... free exotic profs in place of martials (Katana cause it's pretty, greatbow cause it's big, etc), TWF, Oversized TWF (two katanas!), and Improved TWF with just those two levels. From there, dunno. It's ECL 11 with only +6 BAB not much that can be done when dealing with LA though.
#10 sirdane Apr 27, 2008 19:33:36	Personally, the way I went around it was to build a human that born with lycanthropy from the monster manual and another book that helps is Findley, Nigel. Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts (TSR, 1993). Then I made my human a druid and I'm focusing him on seven levels of druid so he gets the 3 wildshapes per day and he also has trackless step which helps. After the levels of druid he's going into Master of many forms, found in the Complete Adventurer (p58.), at eight level, then after that i'm going into the Animal Lord/Cat Lord class to finish it out. That with many feats focused on speed and claw/bite focus will make your character a great druid, or fighter as your character is going toward. Hell, adding fighter levels with druid levels would promote harmony to any fighter character.
#11 avilonrayne Apr 28, 2008 2:18:39	Personally, the way I went around it was to build a human that born with lycanthropy from the monster manual and another book that helps is Findley, Nigel. Van Richten's Guide to Werebeasts (TSR, 1993). Then I made my human a druid and I'm focusing him on seven levels of druid so he gets the 3 wildshapes per day and he also has trackless step which helps. After the levels of druid he's going into Master of many forms, found in the Complete Adventurer (p58.), at eight level, then after that i'm going into the Animal Lord/Cat Lord class to finish it out. That with many feats focused on speed and claw/bite focus will make your character a great druid, or fighter as your character is going toward. Hell, adding fighter levels with druid levels would promote harmony to any fighter character. The only foreseeable problem with this is that I can't seem to find any way to make more than one melee attack a round with a natural weapon. All the feats and abilities dealing with it only seem to reduce the penalties for one extra attack with each. I'd much rather go berserk with two big swords than hit a whopping three times with claws and a bite.
#12 raxxman Apr 28, 2008 5:17:27	Surely Warblade with tigers fury. Surely
#13 sunic_flames Apr 28, 2008 7:44:19	Improved Rapid Strike for the win. :P
#14 sirdane Apr 29, 2008 21:18:18	What book is Improved Rapid Strike in and where is the orginal Rapid Strike?
#15 sunic_flames Apr 30, 2008 7:13:47	What book is Improved Rapid Strike in and where is the orginal Rapid Strike? Draconomicon, Draconomicon. :P