Translation of the old to the new. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Translation of the old to the new.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
feraltempestas
Oct 26, 2008 5:12:26 I am, and have been a long time fan of obscure and mysterious classes in D&D for quite some time. It seemed that everyone knew what a wizard or sourcerer was already, so the attempt at being enigmatic becomes something of a farce. By picking something that the other players knew little or nothing about, I found I was able to bring that intrigue and interest back into the game, because not everyone knew what to expect from my characters right off the bat.
When 4.0 came out, I found myself back at square one with the whole D&D community, having next to no new or unusual character options as far as professions and skills. Wizards threw magic missles, warlocks hurled hellfire, rangers shot things, rogues stabbed things, fighters and paladins and now warlords fought up at the front, and everything had been balanced out on a flat table.

So, I'd like to have some help here folks.

Is it possible for a 3.5 class to be translated to 4.0's system?

I spent about 30 minuits typing up an extensive argument for it, but the blasted forum kicked the bucket at a bad time, so I'll be happy to defend on the following points if they're brought into question.

Changes in spell saves and casting times per day vs. new save system and at-will/per encounter/daily spells.

Differences in hit-die and the HD system vs the new HP per level system, in addition the the healing surges and second wind options.

Translating save bonuses from 3.5 to 4.0's system.

Movement in squares as opposed to actual measurements.

Skill system changes, and translating 3.5 skills to the 4.0 listings.

Using and or mixing 3.5 feats with 4.0 feats.

Paragon paths, epic destinies, and the like vs prestige classes and or the use of any of the three.

Leveling and experience translations.
-------------

Please, respond here if you have questions, arguments, comments, or other input that you think would be helpful to answering the question of whether a 3.5 class can be effectively made to fit the 4.0 system.
#2
Shiftkitty
Oct 26, 2008 10:03:49 Why not? They've already done it with the core classes. Was there a specific class you were thinking of?

Changes in spell saves and casting times per day vs. new save system and at-will/per encounter/daily spells. I moved the whole 2e spell list over with a few tweaks to the new format (such as removing save or die mechanics).

Differences in hit-die and the HD system vs the new HP per level system, in addition the the healing surges and second wind options. Haven't messed with this much, my players tend to stick to core classes.

Translating save bonuses from 3.5 to 4.0's system. Ref, Will, and Fort don't seem much changed with the exception of adding half your level.

Movement in squares as opposed to actual measurements. No big deal. 1 square = 5 feet. So if a spell says it has a range of 40 feet, that's 8 squares.

Skill system changes, and translating 3.5 skills to the 4.0 listings. I really like the new skill system, but I can see how translating the old list to fit into the new list might take some work. I think it all fits, although there's some debate on the Craft and Profession skills.

Using and or mixing 3.5 feats with 4.0 feats. The jury's still out at my table about 4e's feats.

Paragon paths, epic destinies, and the like vs prestige classes and or the use of any of the three. Hated PrC's, but it shouldn't be that hard to convert one to a path. I think all you need is to take the flavor of the PrC and break it into three powers as per the other classes.

Leveling and experience translations. An imperfect system, but so far the only one I've seen is that 1 3e level = 1.5 4e levels. 20 levels for 3e, 30 levels for 4e, 30/20=1.5 levels per. Take your old PCs level, multiply it by 1.5, set your XP at the halfway point (unless you were within 100xp of your new level, then set it within 100 xp of the new 4e level). An imperfect system, but not unreasonable.
#3
tc_x0_lt_0x
Oct 26, 2008 16:54:50 [Watches from High Chair]
#4
feraltempestas
Oct 26, 2008 17:02:08 TC there would the the DM I'm going to be trying this with.

" I moved the whole 2e spell list over with a few tweaks to the new format (such as removing save or die mechanics)."
o.O Impressive.

"I really like the new skill system, but I can see how translating the old list to fit into the new list might take some work. I think it all fits, although there's some debate on the Craft and Profession skills."
I don't use those in the first place, so that shouldn't be an issue :D. (knowledge everything ftw)

"Hated PrC's, but it shouldn't be that hard to convert one to a path. I think all you need is to take the flavor of the PrC and break it into three powers as per the other classes."
Easily enough done, though the class I'm thinking of using is the Shadowcaster, of which could probably use the Warlock: Dark Pact varient from the Faerun PHB.

As for the imperfect system, I think it's about as close to a solid translation as we'll get without consulting a mathematicly oriented computer.

Thanks Shiftkitty! (^_^).
#5
tc_x0_lt_0x
Oct 26, 2008 17:09:22
Easily enough done, though the class I'm thinking of using is the Shadowcaster, of which could probably use the Warlock: Dark Pact varient from the Faerun PHB.

That works, though I have not yet read the Dark Pact.
On a side note, if you ever plan to make a Binder in my game (I know it will happen), it will probably end up being a Vistige (spelling?) Pack Warlock, because it works so damn well.
Don't worry though, someday there will be the shadow power classes, and they just might have a Shadowcaster (or so we would assume).
#6
feraltempestas
Oct 26, 2008 18:18:40 The "Warlock" of 4.0 is pretty much that; some one who makes a deal with something more powerful than themself in order to gain the abilities of that being. Infernal is the traditional hellfire-hurling child-eating fellow, the Fey-pact seems to be some variation of a druid, albeit a probably evil one, and the Star pact seems a lot like the Alienist of the Complete Arcane.

As for the Dark-pact variation, I still plan to use the Shadow-caster, but I was refering to the use of the Dark Pact's paragon options in place of a prestige class for the 'caster.
#7
tc_x0_lt_0x
Oct 26, 2008 18:32:57 God do I love them Star Pact Warlocks...
#8
feraltempestas
Oct 28, 2008 2:25:55 Is bumping a thread allowed in this forum, or should I avoid it in the future?
(And I thought you were going to sit in your high chair TC :3.)
#9
tc_x0_lt_0x
Oct 28, 2008 15:06:19 Just because I'm sitting in my high chair does not mean I can't contribute.
I just have to yell to you all so you guys can hear me down there.
#10
tc_x0_lt_0x
Oct 28, 2008 15:11:42 Feral lad puppy (you know who I'm refering to), I'll be consulting with you on that Druid homebrew on IM, if you are still intrested in making it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 feraltempestas Oct 26, 2008 5:12:26	I am, and have been a long time fan of obscure and mysterious classes in D&D for quite some time. It seemed that everyone knew what a wizard or sourcerer was already, so the attempt at being enigmatic becomes something of a farce. By picking something that the other players knew little or nothing about, I found I was able to bring that intrigue and interest back into the game, because not everyone knew what to expect from my characters right off the bat. When 4.0 came out, I found myself back at square one with the whole D&D community, having next to no new or unusual character options as far as professions and skills. Wizards threw magic missles, warlocks hurled hellfire, rangers shot things, rogues stabbed things, fighters and paladins and now warlords fought up at the front, and everything had been balanced out on a flat table. So, I'd like to have some help here folks. Is it possible for a 3.5 class to be translated to 4.0's system? I spent about 30 minuits typing up an extensive argument for it, but the blasted forum kicked the bucket at a bad time, so I'll be happy to defend on the following points if they're brought into question. Changes in spell saves and casting times per day vs. new save system and at-will/per encounter/daily spells. Differences in hit-die and the HD system vs the new HP per level system, in addition the the healing surges and second wind options. Translating save bonuses from 3.5 to 4.0's system. Movement in squares as opposed to actual measurements. Skill system changes, and translating 3.5 skills to the 4.0 listings. Using and or mixing 3.5 feats with 4.0 feats. Paragon paths, epic destinies, and the like vs prestige classes and or the use of any of the three. Leveling and experience translations. ------------- Please, respond here if you have questions, arguments, comments, or other input that you think would be helpful to answering the question of whether a 3.5 class can be effectively made to fit the 4.0 system.
#2 Shiftkitty Oct 26, 2008 10:03:49	Why not? They've already done it with the core classes. Was there a specific class you were thinking of? Changes in spell saves and casting times per day vs. new save system and at-will/per encounter/daily spells. I moved the whole 2e spell list over with a few tweaks to the new format (such as removing save or die mechanics). Differences in hit-die and the HD system vs the new HP per level system, in addition the the healing surges and second wind options. Haven't messed with this much, my players tend to stick to core classes. Translating save bonuses from 3.5 to 4.0's system. Ref, Will, and Fort don't seem much changed with the exception of adding half your level. Movement in squares as opposed to actual measurements. No big deal. 1 square = 5 feet. So if a spell says it has a range of 40 feet, that's 8 squares. Skill system changes, and translating 3.5 skills to the 4.0 listings. I really like the new skill system, but I can see how translating the old list to fit into the new list might take some work. I think it all fits, although there's some debate on the Craft and Profession skills. Using and or mixing 3.5 feats with 4.0 feats. The jury's still out at my table about 4e's feats. Paragon paths, epic destinies, and the like vs prestige classes and or the use of any of the three. Hated PrC's, but it shouldn't be that hard to convert one to a path. I think all you need is to take the flavor of the PrC and break it into three powers as per the other classes. Leveling and experience translations. An imperfect system, but so far the only one I've seen is that 1 3e level = 1.5 4e levels. 20 levels for 3e, 30 levels for 4e, 30/20=1.5 levels per. Take your old PCs level, multiply it by 1.5, set your XP at the halfway point (unless you were within 100xp of your new level, then set it within 100 xp of the new 4e level). An imperfect system, but not unreasonable.
#3 tc_x0_lt_0x Oct 26, 2008 16:54:50	[Watches from High Chair]
#4 feraltempestas Oct 26, 2008 17:02:08	TC there would the the DM I'm going to be trying this with. " I moved the whole 2e spell list over with a few tweaks to the new format (such as removing save or die mechanics)." o.O Impressive. "I really like the new skill system, but I can see how translating the old list to fit into the new list might take some work. I think it all fits, although there's some debate on the Craft and Profession skills." I don't use those in the first place, so that shouldn't be an issue :D. (knowledge everything ftw) "Hated PrC's, but it shouldn't be that hard to convert one to a path. I think all you need is to take the flavor of the PrC and break it into three powers as per the other classes." Easily enough done, though the class I'm thinking of using is the Shadowcaster, of which could probably use the Warlock: Dark Pact varient from the Faerun PHB. As for the imperfect system, I think it's about as close to a solid translation as we'll get without consulting a mathematicly oriented computer. Thanks Shiftkitty! (^_^).
#5 tc_x0_lt_0x Oct 26, 2008 17:09:22	Easily enough done, though the class I'm thinking of using is the Shadowcaster, of which could probably use the Warlock: Dark Pact varient from the Faerun PHB. That works, though I have not yet read the Dark Pact. On a side note, if you ever plan to make a Binder in my game (I know it will happen), it will probably end up being a Vistige (spelling?) Pack Warlock, because it works so damn well. Don't worry though, someday there will be the shadow power classes, and they just might have a Shadowcaster (or so we would assume).
#6 feraltempestas Oct 26, 2008 18:18:40	The "Warlock" of 4.0 is pretty much that; some one who makes a deal with something more powerful than themself in order to gain the abilities of that being. Infernal is the traditional hellfire-hurling child-eating fellow, the Fey-pact seems to be some variation of a druid, albeit a probably evil one, and the Star pact seems a lot like the Alienist of the Complete Arcane. As for the Dark-pact variation, I still plan to use the Shadow-caster, but I was refering to the use of the Dark Pact's paragon options in place of a prestige class for the 'caster.
#7 tc_x0_lt_0x Oct 26, 2008 18:32:57	God do I love them Star Pact Warlocks...
#8 feraltempestas Oct 28, 2008 2:25:55	Is bumping a thread allowed in this forum, or should I avoid it in the future? (And I thought you were going to sit in your high chair TC :3.)
#9 tc_x0_lt_0x Oct 28, 2008 15:06:19	Just because I'm sitting in my high chair does not mean I can't contribute. I just have to yell to you all so you guys can hear me down there.
#10 tc_x0_lt_0x Oct 28, 2008 15:11:42	Feral lad puppy (you know who I'm refering to), I'll be consulting with you on that Druid homebrew on IM, if you are still intrested in making it.