I am set in this dungeon with this level 11 cleric vampire lich. My questions are can I turn it, in addition, since I am a level 10 cleric of Pelor with the Improved turning feat and I took the sun domain if I am able to turn him with the sun domain effect active what happens?
Also if it was a regular vampire what would happen then? Boom? or vapor?
At any rate, you can certainly attempt to turn undead against this thing, and it should have the normal effects.
.....really? .....Why not?oh....also normal effects being? he go boom never to be seen again? go gas cloud? or go boom and be rebuilt later at his phal...(yeah I am not even gonna try) his special "soul charm?"
As for why you can't have both the Lich and Vampire templates ...
"Vampire" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature).
The creature’s type changes to undead (augmented humanoid or monstrous humanoid).
"Lich" is an acquired template that can be added to any humanoid creature (referred to hereafter as the base creature), provided it can create the required phylactery.
The creature’s type changes to undead. Do not recalculate base attack bonus, saves, or skill points. Size is unchanged.
Once you have one template or the other, you lose the Humanoid type and gain the Undead type, so you are automatically unable to take the other template.
Phylactery. And, since I don't physically have the books, and the SRD is a pain to multipage to double-check the calculations (and I've never been a fan of clerics or Turning to begin with), I'm not even going to try to figure out the likelihood of Destruction, Turning, etc.
However, you are in luck, because there is a custom Vampire-Lich template that I created called the "Lampiche" that you may wish to use (link in my sig). Feel free to change the name in your campaign to your liking, of course. ;)
If it was just a vampire would he blow up and be dead forever or go gas cloud and run away?
If it was just a lich would it blow up never to be heard from again or grow back to unlife like normal?
In the case of a vampire, I would go under the assumption that it's a valid way to destroy it. The "gas cloud thing" has the following rules:
If reduced to 0 hit points in combat, it automatically assumes gaseous form and attempts to escape. It must reach its coffin home within 2 hours or be utterly destroyed. (It can travel up to nine miles in 2 hours.) Any additional damage dealt to a vampire forced into gaseous form has no effect. Once at rest in its coffin, a vampire is helpless. It regains 1 hit point after 1 hour, then is no longer helpless and resumes healing at the rate of 5 hit points per round.
Your turning ability doesn't do hit point damage; it just flat out destroys the creature. Therefore, no gaseous form-float to coffin-regenerate stuff.
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It probably should be in the DM's forum, not the Player's >.>
I disagree. A player is asking for help on how turning works. This is the place for players to seek help.
In the case of a lich, you would still need to locate its phylactery; otherwise, it'll just reform. And probably have a serious grudge against you.
In the case of a vampire, I would go under the assumption that it's a valid way to destroy it. The "gas cloud thing" has the following rules:
Your turning ability doesn't do hit point damage; it just flat out destroys the creature. Therefore, no gaseous form-float to coffin-regenerate stuff.
Looks good to me ... I use the Complete Divine simplified turning, so I haven't looked at the PHB version in years and really have no idea how it works.
As for the Lich, when reduced to 0 hp, it will be "destroyed", yet it will reform at the sight of its phylactery in 1d10 days. The only way to get rid of this monster for good is to find the phylactery and destroy it, then proceed to engage the Lich in combat and put an end to its wrteched existence.
It should be noted that both ways to deal with the above monsters are by no means easy.
If so: Both of their turning resistances are too high to do this in the normal way. Atleast this is so if both of their turning resistances are 14, which I remember.
That would turn the 11th level character into a 15th level character for the purpouse of being turned. You can at the very most effect undead with HD equal or lower than your level +4.
So yeah, that's true.
I disagree. A player is asking for help on how turning works. This is the place for players to seek help.
And that's what I get for trying to help when I try to read stuff when I'm not paying attention. It looked like a DM asking about his players being able to turn, not him being the player asking about the turning - although his knowing it's an 11th level character probably didn't help me.Thanks forgot to even think about that.
So if I am a level 10 cleric with Improved turning, fighting a level 11 lich(+4 turning resistance) I can turn him but only if I get the Cleric lvl + 4 on the chart and roll at least 11 on the amount of HD I can effect?
Thank you everyone for your help on this, this is my first time playing cleric. :D
So if I am a level 10 cleric with Improved turning, fighting a level 11 lich(+4 turning resistance) I can turn him but only if I get the Cleric lvl + 4 on the chart and roll at least 11 on the amount of HD I can effect?
Turning is great for clearing out the Minions of the Undead, but it usually falls short against the Main Guys.
Does not the improved turning feat make me an ECL 11 for turning purposes or does it just make it +1 level on the chart?
For some reason I missed the Imp Turning part :-)
So yes, ignore my last post.....
Both of them also have +2 CR, so it would be a CR 13 creature. Meanwhile, a Lich has +4 ECL and a Vampire has a +8 ECL, so a level 11 Lich would be an ECL 15 character and a level 11 Vampire would be an ECL 19 character.
If the DM decided to ignore the type restrictions on the templates (and I've seen it happen), you'd have a CR 15, ECL 23 creature with 19 effective HD for the purposes of turning.
Your effective Cleric level for turning undead is 11. To affect a level 11 Vampire or level 11 Lich with your turning attempt, you need to roll a 22 on your turning check; depending on your equipment and your Charisma score, this may be trivial or impossible. You'll also need to roll 15 or better on your turning damage, which is guaranteed if you have 16 or better Charisma and an average roll for 4 Charisma (so it's pretty likely). With a normal turning attempt, they'll run; with a Greater Turning, they'll be destroyed (although the Lich will reform if you don't find its phylactery).
If the creature is somehow a Vampire Lich, you won't be able to turn it at all without additional feats or equipment.
This assumes that the creature doesn't have any spells or equipment that improve its Turn Resistance or defend it against positive energy effects.
Turning is great for clearing out the Minions of the Undead, but it usually falls short against the Main Guys.
If you put enough effort (and splat-books) into it, by mid-levels you can get a Cleric that will pop most undead he's likely to encounter.
Items that will help you turn undead include the Circlet of Persuasion and Phylactery of Undead Turning (Dungeon Master's Guide), Admiral's Bicorn (Stormwrack), Scepter of the Netherworld (Libris Mortis), and Sacred armors and shields (Book of Exalted Deeds). There might be more; that's all I can remember off the top of my head. Note that they all won't necessarily stack-- especially the Circlet of Persuasion and Admiral's Bicorn, since they not only provide the same type of bonus to the same type of checks, but also take up the same item slot.
There are also some feats in Complete Divine and Libris Mortis that involve turning. Complete Divine also has a couple of nice feats for healing.
Items that will help you turn undead include the Circlet of Persuasion and Phylactery of Undead Turning (Dungeon Master's Guide), Admiral's Bicorn (Stormwrack), Scepter of the Netherworld (Libris Mortis), and Sacred armors and shields (Book of Exalted Deeds). There might be more; that's all I can remember off the top of my head.
Night sticks (Libris Mortis) will give you more turning attempts, to add another item to the list.
Also thanks for all the help everyone its been really helpful.
I know this is a little off topic but what type of bonuses would Profession(Exorcist) provide?
If i where dming you, i might give you a +2 circumstance bonus on your turn check if you where attempting to turn some type of incorporeal undead. Any such bonuses are completly at the whim of your DM.
DMG, page 292, under the heading "Death Attacks"
"In case it matters, a dead creature, no matter how it died, has -10 hit points."
When a vampire reaches negative hit points, they assume gaseous form. Ergo, from a RAW perspective, the vampire would assume gaseous from instead of being destroyed.
However, from a "making sense" persepctive, I would allow the turning to completely obliterate the vampire. Your DM may vary. Perhaps only the stake in the heart thing works in his world.