Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 reddaffodil Jul 24, 2009 23:36:50	So this is going to sound pretty...interesting. We are playing a 13-level adventure next session, and my little bro wants to join. He's 8 years old. I don't know if I should introduce him to the game, since I'm new at it myself and I'm not sure how the rest of the players(including the DM) would react. Should I introduce him or tell him nicely that he should wait until he's 10 to play with us?
#2 bronski113 Jul 24, 2009 23:38:38	How old are you and the people in your group?
#3 chava Jul 24, 2009 23:48:20	I would say call up whoever runs the game and ask them if its ok that you're little brother comes along. Then again, that would be my suggestion if you wanted to bring along a friend that is your age - it's just polite to give a heads up and ask if another person is welcome.
#4 reddaffodil Jul 24, 2009 23:53:47	How old are you and the people in your group? I'm 16, we are all from a DnD club at our high school.
#5 crossblade Jul 24, 2009 23:58:40	Isn't turning people away from a club the exact opposite of what the purpose of a school club is? And, does your little brother go to the high school?
#6 scarletice Jul 24, 2009 23:59:20	Ask your DM and the rest of your group if its cool with them. Then if they say yes just make sure your lil brothers knows how he's expected to act and that if he gets out of control, he wont be allowed to play again.
#7 eazy_e Jul 25, 2009 0:04:43	Isn't turning people away from a club the exact opposite of what the purpose of a school club is? And, does your little brother go to the high school? The OP says the bro is 8... I wouldn't want to bring an 8 year old...but that's just me. EDIT: I ninja'd the s*** outta morphling! :P
#8 morphling_89 Jul 25, 2009 0:10:29	Isn't turning people away from a club the exact opposite of what the purpose of a school club is? And, does your little brother go to the high school? If he goes to high school as an 8 year old then good for him. Seriously doubt it though. ;) EDIT: ninja'd Personally, I think unless he is really, really mature for his age it won't work out. Even if he is really mature, you should make sure your DM and everyone in your group is ok with it. Use your best judgment. You've been playing this campaign, so try to picture your little brother in it. Do you guys make a lot of PG 13 jokes at the table? Would the role playing go over his head? So forth.
#9 Novacat Jul 25, 2009 0:16:53	One of the most fun people I've played D&D with was 10 years old. That said, most kids of that age group aren't as good with the math and the in-character acting as he was (he took after his dad, who was one of the best D&D players I've ever played with). Step 1: Ask your group. Not just the DM; the whole group. The DM must be on board with the idea, as well as the majority of the players. If at least half the players don't want him to join, don't invite him. It doesn't matter why they don't want him there, either. Respect their wishes. Step 2: If they're on board, give your brother a crash course in the game beforehand. Come up with a small encounter or two, generate a character for each of you, and walk him through it. Don't skip over stuff, because at the game, he'll be expected to know how to play himself. If he needs help with the math, you should be able to come up with a "cheat sheet" of his modifiers that he can refer to. It's OK to help him during the game, too, so long as he knows enough of how to play so that you're not essentially playing for him. You should also expect to build his character for him (with his input) for the actual game. Expecting him to assemble a 13th level character would be unreasonable for anyone's first D&D game. Step 3: ??? Step 4: Profit!
#10 etarnon Jul 25, 2009 1:11:46	I suggest you have a private game with you and him, where you teach him the basics and run him on solo adventures for a few months as his DM. 8 Years old is not gonna mix well with 16. I started at 11, and I wasn't ready for 16 year old players and high level adventures. Best of luck.
#11 crossblade Jul 25, 2009 1:20:11	The OP says the bro is 8... If he goes to high school as an 8 year old then good for him. Seriously doubt it though.;) The OP could be in a small town where the high school, jr high, middle school and elementary school are in 1 building (Ok, so I was too vague on my question in relation to that). Alternatively, it could be an after school club. :P
#12 zillah Jul 25, 2009 1:51:22	its not really about age. i taught my cousin at a young age and he LOVED IT! he didn't get it all at once, but the point is he tried. if its 4.0 its even easier imo. i agree with the private gaming thing. DM him for a few days, and in the mean time as the group. if they say no continue with the solo campaign and let him learn whats up. This does 2 things. teaches you, teaches him. he will ask you questions, you will both be familiar. doooo eeeeet
#13 Endarrion Jul 25, 2009 3:02:50	This probably has more to do with your little bro wanting to spend more time with his cool older sibling than playing the game (though I obviously don't know much about the situation). I agree with the other posters who said you should run something for him beforehand and run it past the DM if you ultimately think he's interested enough in the game itself to play a serious campaign. Solo campaigns can be a lot of fun. I don't know if the Solo Campaign thread by KJW is still floating around, but that was a great resource. Even if he's not ready for a game with a large group of older kids, maybe that would be more fun for you two.
#14 johnnyslick Jul 25, 2009 3:33:14	8 might be a bit young, and 8 among 16 year olds is liable to be pretty rough because - no offense, we all have to start somewhere - you guys probably aren't really great at DnD right now yourselves. I started playing when I was around 9 or 10 but I played with a friend's dad. Friend and I were the only young'uns there, so when I made a thief called Charlie Luciano (I had a book on the history of the FBI at the time) it was just funny, not game-breakingly anachronistic. Since me and friend were playing with people who had several years of experience, it was easy for the DM to say what we could and couldn't do (and, probably allow couldn'ts to happen) and easy for the other players to gently guide us in the right direction. I think all that's going to be a lot, lot, lot tougher with an inexperienced GM and inexperienced players. The solo campaign stuff sounds okay, though. Let mom join in!!! (j.k.)
#15 esperifiel Jul 25, 2009 4:46:02	Give him the PHB to look over. Help him roll out a character. Let him tag along at least once. You're the big bro. Do your duty. $5 says he gets bored after awhile anyway and won't want to come back.
#16 MrCustomer Jul 25, 2009 13:37:58	At 8 years old he may not be ready, especially for a mid level game. Unless he is exceptionally mature for his age and smart. Most 8 years old will be barely able to read and do the math needed to play and understand the rules. From their perspective they just don't understand that the rules are beyong just "I cast a spell and the enemy goes boom" The math and reading requirments may be miniscule, but recall that at 8 the amount of math they are aquanted with is even less, 2 times 2d10+5 is very advanced math to an 8 year old, far past what school even teaches them at that age. The rules are imo far to advanced for an 8 year old to properly grasp. Second, as far as maturity goes, there is his attention span, seriousness etc. Can he sit still through some very boring (from the prospect of an 8 year old) 2 hour session? Will you and the group need to babysit him? I think that is asking for far too much from the group, as well as the work involved in teaching an 8 year old the rules (which are far more advanced then his age group) As for it being a club in your highschool, that means the requirement for entry into the club should be that they are also in the same highschool, your 8 year old brother shouldn't be in the club, no more then he should try out for the football team, however energetic he may be at running around. At any rate, if you are interested in having games with him in them, then you should start with running some games with him at home first and see how he does before even considering including him with any other groups.
#17 esperifiel Jul 28, 2009 1:36:12	Um, I could do basic algebra at 4... If he doesn't understand 4d6, subtract the lowest die, then teach him. Make D&D a learning experience. You need to start sometime. Frankly, with over a 1/3 of Americans not even capable of graduating high school, and the average high school graduate having the reading ability of a sixth grader, waiting longer to start reading the PHB might work against him... And I started GM'ing at 9.
#18 lynadianya Jul 28, 2009 4:44:12	Um, I could do basic algebra at 4... My 9 year old step daughter can not do basic algebra, and she is actually doing quite well in math according to her standings among the rest of her class and the rest of the state (which frightens me terribly about the state of education today). There are some very smart children out there (you would probably have been in that category, Esperifiel) but today's education system does not lend itself to having the experience to be able to read, and understand the Players Handbook or the math involved with playing this game. Regardless...I am going to point something out that hasn't been out right stated. Not everyone likes having little kids around. I have always had this problem with my friends with children. They think that because little Johnnie and Julie are their precious little treasures that their company is instantly wanted by others. I have had adult parties where my friends with children have showed up with them in tow, at 8 pm, when there is drinking and carousing going on. Instantly, everyone has to stop what they're doing and go on their best behavior. I find this intensely irritating. ... Having said that, if everyone says its a great idea (and I mean everyone, not just half the group - entire buy in) and the rules of the club allow for it, then by all means. If, however, they are not all in for it, then the presence of a young child at the gaming table will more than likely ruin their fun. If he really wants to play with his big sibling then run him through solo adventures. Remember that your friends may not even want to play with him when he's 10 (and they are 18 - if you are all 16). I am not saying this because I dislike children. I am saying this because sometimes people have to be reminded that not everyone likes being around other people's children/young siblings.
#19 jutter Jul 28, 2009 7:34:00	I don't know if I should introduce him to the game, since I'm new at it myself and I'm not sure how the rest of the players(including the DM) would react. I would never introduce a new player without asking the entire group first. If the other players and DM are ok with it, give it a shot. The DM has to prepare for an additional party-member, and every player will have a bit less time in the spot-light. They will have to consider it 'worth it', either because your brother adds to the fun or to do you a favor. I assume you can predict most of the possible scenario's, problems and benefits. Be fair to everyone involved, and things will work out one way or another.
#20 Sabin_Stargem Jul 28, 2009 8:12:58	A key difference between bringing random kids to an party unannounced and allowing a child to participate in a game with permission is the foundation upon which those children relate to older people. D&D is a game in which viewpoints and cooperation play a major role in how the game plays out, and a child's viewpoint may offer more than expected. All in all, I am inclined to think that working with this kid would be a good idea - he gets to play with family, check out a new toy, and possibly get a new hobby.
#21 1_ton_ghost Jul 28, 2009 13:56:24	IMO, no, do not do it. It is unfair to the rest of your players to presume. To clarify, were this @ 1st lvl (where you should start as a new PC) and the rest of the group conceded (it's a burden when they're this young), fine. I, myself, started @ 7 ('83 or so), but at the begining (1st) and several of us were green as well. Learning together. You're 13th and older. Also, by the time you're 17 or so, you're in your last mental schema, psychologically speaking. He's 8 and has a long way to go; not as advantaged as you or your friends. ie) His understanding, innvoation, quantifiable reasoning, dramatic improv, everything, is going to suck by comparison, but it is not necessarilly his fault. Time will tell ultimately. If you restart @ the beginning, where all newcomers should, then, yes, I'd say help groom your brother. That's how I got my start from my older bro.
#22 ironchef33 Jul 28, 2009 16:33:06	I was that little brother that wanted to join. I was only 2 years younger than my brother, though. I had a very very helpful and welcoming DM, a wonderful older brother, and a group that welcomed me heartily. That being said, I think all those three really helped me develop an appreciation for the game. I had my rules laid out clearly before me: IE- if you throw hissy fits, we're kicking you out. etc. I also advise clearing it with EVERYONE in the group, helping him learn the rules by running a small game. I would also suggest talking to him about clear differences between "character" and "people", if your friends are sadistic and enjoy picking on him, they might enjoy taking it out on his character (which my brother's group did, but my brother explained to me that it's not "me" they're picking on, but my "character", I was young enough to be fooled by that :P). In general, summary post: 1) Lay ground rules 2) Clear it with everyone 3) Help him with the game first to speed up downtime. 4) Most importantly- be nice to him, he most like just wants to hang out with his much cooler brother (which is what I wanted) I do highly suggest taking him to at least one session. He'll learn how to socialize differently (in character, out of character) with people in and out of the games, it'll improve his basic math skills, and later on you can explain to him higher level mathematics such as probability, the advantage of rerolling, etc.
#23 esperifiel Jul 30, 2009 6:13:30	I am going to point something out that hasn't been out right stated. Not everyone likes having little kids around. I have always had this problem with my friends with children. They think that because little Johnnie and Julie are their precious little treasures that their company is instantly wanted by others. I have had adult parties where my friends with children have showed up with them in tow, at 8 pm, when there is drinking and carousing going on. Instantly, everyone has to stop what they're doing and go on their best behavior. I find this intensely irritating. I understand where you're coming from. In my last two campaigns, my only house rule was: if you want to reroll any die roll -- not just your own, but the DMs or another player's as well -- you must take a shot. ;) Definitely not a kiddie campaign. Beyond the alcohol, they went for a good 12-14 hours straight at times. BUT, the OP is in high school, and this is an after school campaign. I used to run after school campaigns in junior high. I'd go to bat for my kid brother and convince my friends to let him tag along. The party could always use another healer. Always.
#24 lynadianya Jul 30, 2009 7:53:06	BUT, the OP is in high school, and this is an after school campaign. I used to run after school campaigns in junior high. I'd go to bat for my kid brother and convince my friends to let him tag along. The party could always use another healer. Always. The OP has another thread on the boards about one of the players he plays with (I am not sure if it is in this gaming club at school or not) being chaotic evil and trying to "perv" on one of his NPCs. 16 year olds do not necessarily mix well with 8 year olds. It's not just the maturity of the 8 year old, it is also about the maturity of the people he intends to play with. I just feel that there has to be complete buy in and everyone needs to be on their best behavior if this elementary school kid is going to be playing with them. I am not saying that he shouldn't bring his brother, I am saying that it should be up to the other people at the table whether he brings his brother. It is their fantasy time that will be changed by the addition of a young child. It is nice however that you would go to bat for your kid brother though.
#25 aokarasu Jul 30, 2009 13:35:34	Personally, I wouldn't introduce any player to the game, regardless of age, by starting them at level 13.
#26 Krusk Jul 30, 2009 19:23:53	I say you run some adventures for him at home, some quick homebrew solo ones. Maybe bring him to tag along to the sessions and sit in, and maybe in a couple of weeks if things go well bring up the idea of him playing a character.
#27 october_darkness Jul 30, 2009 19:54:02	I would suggest not to do it. Not that it really matters, but WOTC has advised that anyone who plays D&D to be at least around age 12+.
#28 squidyak Jul 31, 2009 5:05:48	No, so very no. The solo adventure other people have brought up is a good idea. If you feel like going above and beyond your normal brotherly duty you could run a game for him and his friends. Something kid friendly, think Labyrinth or Muppets.