The party consists of me, (gnome sorceror), my sister (human paladin), and my brother's (DM) NPC (cleric atm).
My sister is having some trouble. She views the game (or at least I'm really sure she does) as kind of an extension of herself. Like an MMO; you pick a class that can fight and blow stuff up, but the personality is /exactly/ like your own (or at least like it in the text you type) and you're free to goof off even in the midst of a fantasy world.
That's the MMO. I don't think it's clicking here in RP-intensive D&D land. The character my sister plays is more or less a Mary Sue, which means that her character (called 'Kendrie') encompasses a lot of aspects that don't make any sense. Farting, getting in people's faces (and not in a tough, interrogative way), social awkwardness...things that really throw her above-average wisdom, intelligence, and (especially) charisma scores out the door. And please, don't tell me it's her character's personality, because a paladin with even a shred of dignity or normalcy wouldn't act the way Kendrie does; trust me.
And this is a problem, because one of us has to be the leader or "face" of the party. I have a 20 charisma, so my character is attractive and confident enough. But his wisdom and intelligence scores are total bunk; he's really quite the idiot. Kendrie's WIS and INT are twice mine, and her charisma is a 17. So, I think she should be the leader. It seems fitting, right?
Wrong. There's two problems when it comes to asking my sister to lead. One: she's just too dependent. See, in RL, she kind of looks up to me and tries to imitate me. Yeah, I don't get it either. So, naturally this applies to Kendrie, too. Even though Olav (my gnome sorceror) is a bit of a moron and overzealous at times, Kendrie still rides on his coat-tails and readily agrees to anything and everything he says/does, even though someone with a WIS of 13 should know better. Her character is just a walking personification of the phrase "me too".
Secondly, she pulls out my most hated excuse for not trying RP-wise: "I can't act as smart as my character. She's wiser, more intelligent, and stronger than me, so how can I expect Kendrie to do things that I myself can't? No, I think I'll just continue acting like a ditz and making attack rolls whenever combat comes up." I still don't have a good answer for that. Really though, I don't CARE if she can't RP as smart as Kendrie is, I just want her to try.
So, in summation (sorry for the wall of text), how can I help my sister to start looking at Kendrie as independent and unrelated from herself? We all just want good, solid RP, and I don't think this will ever happen if Kendrie continues to rely solely on everyone else around her (Olav especially) for the initiative. I also have the suspicion that RP will really be bogged down if Kendrie is just my sister personified with paladin powers. -_-;
Really though, I don't CARE if she can't RP as smart as Kendrie is, I just want her to try.
You'll never get her to do anything that she doesn't want to do, plain and simple. So you have three options: quit playing, put up with her or try "tricking" her into wanting to rp better. Talk your brother about how he rewards good rp; when a character is rped appropriately does he reward it with in-game benefits (NPC friends, respect, etc)? When a character goofs off in-game does he have NPCs react appropriately (that woman is crazy, let's find another hero!)? Having NPCs react appropriately to good rp is the best way to get your sister to want to rp; if your character gains respect, prestige, favors, etc in the game world while hers becomes the butt of every NPC joke she might very well start trying harder to rp. Then again, maybe not. Some gamers just aren't rpers and there's nothing you can do about it.
Also, how old are the three of you?
Hope that helps,
TS
And PS, if your sister is still at that emulation-age, savor it! Soon enough it'll be gone and her character will start contradicting yours at every opportunity just so your sister can prove her individuality to herself...if she keeps playing d&d at all.
And PS, if your sister is still at that emulation-age, savor it! Soon enough it'll be gone and her character will start contradicting yours at every opportunity just so your sister can prove her individuality to herself...if she keeps playing d&d at all.
Quoted for truth.
The character my sister plays is more or less a Mary Sue, which means that her character (called 'Kendrie') encompasses a lot of aspects that don't make any sense. Farting, getting in people's faces (and not in a tough, interrogative way), social awkwardness...things that really throw her above-average wisdom, intelligence, and (especially) charisma scores out the door.
I might read too much into it, but could it be that she is taking up aspects which she considers typically "male" and which in real life she never allowed herself to do or was not allowed to do?
And this is a problem, because one of us has to be the leader or "face" of the party. I have a 20 charisma, so my character is attractive and confident enough. But his wisdom and intelligence scores are total bunk; he's really quite the idiot. Kendrie's WIS and INT are twice mine, and her charisma is a 17. So, I think she should be the leader. It seems fitting, right?
I think I have been in a very similar situation as your sister is in now. I was the only girl (in my teens) playing in a group with 6 guys, some of whom were rather dominant, even bossy. It can be intimidating, especially because, (in my opinion) men have a very different approach to things related to social interaction than women. And trying to dictate her to behave in a certain way which she might not consider obvious or sensible will only make her more insecure about herself and her way of roleplaying.
I might be wrong, but I think women tend less to wanting to be the leader of a group. We tend more to make decisions as a group and "talk about it" ;) (just my experience). Even if you think that Kendrie should take the lead, that does not mean that she wants to. Or she might actually think that she should, but does not consider herself capable of doing so. (I just saw in your latest post that she is only 12: maybe you are expecting too much from her?) And you shouldn't blame her for not wanting or not trying.
The solution? Difficult. For me, it was a question of personal development, growing older, doing your own stuff, getting more self-esteem. And it took a long time. Back then, I could see what my problems were in game, but I was not able to do anything about it (i.e., I should have been a "social character" but was more often than not intimidated by the blokes). The only thing you could do (and maybe you are already doing) is encourage her and be supportive of her attempts (I am not talking about the farting), maybe gently guide her, but don't tell her how to play, nor let an NPC react weirdly to her behaviour. It might make sense to you and your brother, but it will only scare your sister and make her think that she is "doing it all wrong".
See her character as if she was a paladin-to-be at 12. Maybe she'll develop that charisma, over time, but right now, she's 12, and doesn't have the maturity to act...mature.
Give her 5 years in game, it might improve.
Have the DM reward her with story factors when she acts mature.
Have the DM in game admonish her by senior clerics and paladins of the order when she doesn't act mature.
Overall, your problem is not that she's 12 and immature.
Your problem is really that you want a serious game, and you've recruited a 12 year old immature girl to play the role of the most responsible, dedicated, heroic charismatic character. really, she should be playing some kind of blow off semi rude hobbit from the farms, for comic relief.
Take the lead till she's ready. Run your own PC.
Good luck.
Your problem is really that you want a serious game, and you've recruited a 12 year old immature girl to play the role of the most responsible, dedicated, heroic charismatic character. Really, she should be playing some kind of blow off semi rude hobbit from the farms, for comic relief.
Yeah, that sounds about right.
I dunno, D&D still sounds like a thing we could all have a lot of fun with, 12 years old or not. And she picked the paladin class herself, so I think the desire to RP one successfully is still in there. Maybe not. X(PS: The emulating thing isn't as glamorous as you might think. It does work both ways. ;) I cringe at her imitations of my mistakes way more often than I smile at her imitations of my good ones. It's like watching stuff you've done wrong in your life being repeated over and over.
I dunno, D&D still sounds like a thing we could all have a lot of fun with, 12 years old or not.
You can; it's just that you have to have meshing ideas of how the game is going to be played.
And she picked the paladin class herself, so I think the desire to RP one successfully is still in there.
Why did she pick the class, do you know? Did she like the sound of it, the abilities ... or did she just pick a class from the PHB? Paladin in particular is a class I hate to play with (and usually temp-ban as a DM) simply because most people don't play it correctly - or at least, the way I believe it should be. It's a harder class for most people to play because of the restrictions, whereas a LG Fighter working for the Church Militant of your choice is much easier.
I'm 17, my brother is 19, and my sister is 12.
LOL!
Yes, dude, your 12 yo sister is behaving like a 12 yo sister. Why isn't she playing D&D with kids her own age?
I suggest you get realistic about what your baby sister is capable of. And you and your brother find some young adults to play with.
We all just want good, solid RP,
Does "we all" include your sister? Sounds like she's having fun.
if she really is 12, she shouldn't be playing a paladin. (guess what, my rogue is also a 12 year old girl. asian immigrant in the city of cauldron, mommy was killed by a non lawful good paladin, she never met daddy, her older sister was slain on a merchant ship when they escaped (owned by the same pally), she ended up in some orphanage sponsored by st. cuthbert, escaped, found a party and started adventuring. she is in shackled city. she hates paladins. (though she hasn't gone evil, she is still C/N)
Knowing she is going to play a character just like herself maybe try asking her to play a half-orc... haha try not to make her mad when you suggest that, but seriously if her character matches her personality which she is playing it might be more fun for everybody. Once she is comfortable with the game and RPing she may want to make her character a bit more evolved- but starting a new player out as a pally... that's a recipe for disaster. And I dont' think it's an age thing is a maturity-in-RPing thing. I know plenty of 33 year olds who shouldn't be playing paladins.
paladins, rangers and magi are the three most iconic classes, (rangers being played as hippies with bows, paladins healing themselves mid fight, thanks to WOW, magi throwing fireballs everywhere. MMO's ruin the pally, as they do the ranger and the Wizard. MMORPG's breed unhealthy steriotypes.)
WOW is for Hackenslash fans, not D&D. If she wants to be immature pally,
get her a subscription to World of Warcraft. Pick the Misha standard server, make her a human or blood elf paladin, and watch her get slaughtered in PVP (humans in misha kill each other's PC's like they're is no tomorrow.) she should stay in n00b city till she is at least 8th level (if human) or 6th level (if blood elf) tell her to beware of Sylphenia. (Guess what race/class she is. i'll give you a hint, doesn't wear chainmail, prettiest redhead in the horde. wears a green tabard. deals insane damage through ranged spheres, carries a dagger, staff, or sword. uses finesse, think WOW. has 7 captured dwarven slaves.)
tell the dm to ban the paladin class, or make it a prestige class.