Unconsiousness and failing saves - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Unconsiousness and failing saves

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
cole_caecus
Mar 31, 2009 19:25:28 Do you automaticly fail saves when you are unconsious or asleep?
#2
ciaran
Mar 31, 2009 20:09:35 I don't know where the ruling appears, but I believe that you only fail reflex saves. If I have time I'll look for it.
#3
daidojitaidoru
Mar 31, 2009 20:24:50 3.5 - No. However their Dex is set to 0 (-5 penalty) for the purposes of AC and Reflex saves.

4th ED - No.
#4
dogbackward
Apr 03, 2009 9:16:03 I seem to recall reading something somewhere about being unconscious means you count as "Willing" for spells that can only be used on willing targets. I'm not entirely sure where I saw this, though, and it may have been 3.0 anyway. But it might be out there somewhere. However... I'd still say they take a penalty to their saves of some sort. A -4 seems right. Part of Fortitude and Will would be physically or mentally "bracing" yourself for the attack. If you can't do that, obviously you'd be less able to resist it.

Of course, that'd be a house rule, but it's not like most games aren't chock fulla those anyway...
#5
inigocarmine
Apr 03, 2009 18:10:20
I seem to recall reading something somewhere about being unconscious means you count as "Willing" for spells that can only be used on willing targets.

This includes teleportation spells and the likes, and is in no way related to will saves (not that you implied that, but I wanted to make sure there was no ambiguity).

By the rules, when one is helpless (one of the effects of being unconscious) their dex is treated as 0, effecting saves and AC. There is no effect on will or fort saves; only ref.

It's been a while since I've scoured the 3.5 books, but I also seem to remember being helpless is one of th rare ways to deprive someone of evasion as well...but I could be mistaken.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cole_caecus Mar 31, 2009 19:25:28	Do you automaticly fail saves when you are unconsious or asleep?
#2 ciaran Mar 31, 2009 20:09:35	I don't know where the ruling appears, but I believe that you only fail reflex saves. If I have time I'll look for it.
#3 daidojitaidoru Mar 31, 2009 20:24:50	3.5 - No. However their Dex is set to 0 (-5 penalty) for the purposes of AC and Reflex saves. 4th ED - No.
#4 dogbackward Apr 03, 2009 9:16:03	I seem to recall reading something somewhere about being unconscious means you count as "Willing" for spells that can only be used on willing targets. I'm not entirely sure where I saw this, though, and it may have been 3.0 anyway. But it might be out there somewhere. However... I'd still say they take a penalty to their saves of some sort. A -4 seems right. Part of Fortitude and Will would be physically or mentally "bracing" yourself for the attack. If you can't do that, obviously you'd be less able to resist it. Of course, that'd be a house rule, but it's not like most games aren't chock fulla those anyway...
#5 inigocarmine Apr 03, 2009 18:10:20	I seem to recall reading something somewhere about being unconscious means you count as "Willing" for spells that can only be used on willing targets. This includes teleportation spells and the likes, and is in no way related to will saves (not that you implied that, but I wanted to make sure there was no ambiguity). By the rules, when one is helpless (one of the effects of being unconscious) their dex is treated as 0, effecting saves and AC. There is no effect on will or fort saves; only ref. It's been a while since I've scoured the 3.5 books, but I also seem to remember being helpless is one of th rare ways to deprive someone of evasion as well...but I could be mistaken.