Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 dm_screen Dec 21, 2008 16:59:28	Hey group, I have a feeling that my party is going to be facing quite a few vampires in the future. I was wondering if any of you had any advice on taking them on. Our hardest hitter isn't able to deal with these enemies as much as he can normally because his high health doesn't count for anything when a vampire can suck all your levels in 3 rounds. So, any tactics, specific weaponry, anything like that to help out and fight against them? I was thinking of maybe countering their supernatural abilities with lycanthropy, I thought that might give some kind of advantage.
#2 Novacat Dec 21, 2008 20:11:12	I'll assume you're playing 3.5, since you mentioned level drain... • A turning-specialized cleric can turn vampires into mush. This is the absolutely most preferred method of fighting vamps, because if you can destroy them (as most turn-specialist builds can), you don't have to deal with them again. • Avoid simply trying to deplete their HP, unless you're already under direct attack. Nothing worse than having to kill the same guy twice (especially since many DMs get really dicky about awarding XP for the same guy multiple times). • Again, clerics are your friend. Any cure or heal spell will dispatch vampires (typically) faster than weapons. • If you have any defense-specialized characters in the party, you want them up-front, even if they aren't good at offense. The fewer times the vampires touch you, the better. If you don't have anyone with a good AC, pick the character with the highest Fort save and designate them the party's honorary meat-shield. If you have to take level drain, it should be on the character with the best chance of overcoming it. • Nothing is more effective than a cleric for killing undead.
#3 dm_screen Dec 21, 2008 20:28:13	Wait, the level drain actually has a save you can make? Where does it say that?
#4 zeratulcraft Dec 21, 2008 20:35:06	• Nothing is more effective than a cleric for killing undead. Except of course a fire breathing druid in the form of a dinosaur with a bear. And the save for Level Drain is after 24 hours, to avoid permanent level loss.
#5 entropy_judge Dec 21, 2008 21:19:05	I was wondering if any of you had any advice on taking them on. Expensive and kinda relies on DM cooperation, but: Find their location (Divination spells, local peasants, following the wolf pack, whatever). Buy a lot of one-shot items and extra supplies. Go into the lair half an hour before dawn. Triple-time your way to the guy's sleeping area, burning through your consumables first, stake him, drag his body outside, and dump him in the river.
#6 kuonji Dec 21, 2008 22:50:49	Death Ward Death Ward Necromancy Level: Clr 4, Death 4, Drd 5, Pal 4 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Living creature touched Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) The subject is immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects. This spell doesn’t remove negative levels that the subject has already gained, nor does it affect the saving throw necessary 24 hours after gaining a negative level. Death ward does not protect against other sorts of attacks even if those attacks might be lethal.
#7 Novacat Dec 21, 2008 22:58:55	Death Ward Death Ward Necromancy Level: Clr 4, Death 4, Drd 5, Pal 4 Components: V, S, DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Living creature touched Duration: 1 min./level Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless) The subject is immune to all death spells, magical death effects, energy drain, and any negative energy effects. This spell doesn’t remove negative levels that the subject has already gained, nor does it affect the saving throw necessary 24 hours after gaining a negative level. Death ward does not protect against other sorts of attacks even if those attacks might be lethal.
#8 calronmoonflower Dec 22, 2008 2:07:03	On page 74 of Libris Mortis is a positoxin called bloodwine. If you drink it a vamp that puts the bite on you gets to make a save or take ability damage to their Cha scores. before someone brings it up, this does by-pass the normal immunities that undead have against ability damage. You should also consider something like Protection From Evil to block the vampires mind control abilities.
#9 DKase Dec 22, 2008 2:25:27	Some information about your party make up (levels, classes, etc.) would help to tailor the advice to your situation. Lots of factors can effect something like this. Does your DM do everything RAW? In that case you can use water to your advantage too, they can't cross streams and can be destroyed by immersing them in running water for a couple of rounds. It's not un common for a DM to rule that a Greater Turning doesn't outright kill a vamp, just force them into their mist state. In that case you'll still be stuck with tracking them down to their casket and treating them to a stake dinner (sorry couldn't help it). They can only travel so far in their mist form though, so if you can lure them away they won't be able to return to their casket. If you really want to go for cheese, there is a lv 4 spell in the Spell Compendium called Moon Bolt that will render undead helpless on a failed save. That's the only condition necessary to stake a vamp and kill em' off for good. It also deals a significant amount of strength damage to living targets, so it's not completely situational. If you have nothing to work with but core, it's Deathward all the way and Magic Circle vs. Evil to block domination. If your cleric isn't a turn monkey, then Searing Light deals a crap ton of damage vs. vamps (d8 per level I think) and is a ranged touch attack to boot. Spontaneous casting of heal spells or the party's first aid stick can be rather potent weapons against a vamp as well. RAW, lycanthropy turns you CE. If your running an evil campaign all ready, then I guess it's not a problem. You get stat boosts, natural armor, and DR/silver. You can't get dominated by the vamp, but there isn't anything stopping them from sucking away your levels and Con.
#10 dm_screen Dec 22, 2008 8:17:15	Some information about your party make up (levels, classes, etc.) would help to tailor the advice to your situation. Lots of factors can effect something like this. Does your DM do everything RAW? In that case you can use water to your advantage too, they can't cross streams and can be destroyed by immersing them in running water for a couple of rounds. It's not un common for a DM to rule that a Greater Turning doesn't outright kill a vamp, just force them into their mist state. In that case you'll still be stuck with tracking them down to their casket and treating them to a stake dinner (sorry couldn't help it). They can only travel so far in their mist form though, so if you can lure them away they won't be able to return to their casket. If you really want to go for cheese, there is a lv 4 spell in the Spell Compendium called Moon Bolt that will render undead helpless on a failed save. That's the only condition necessary to stake a vamp and kill em' off for good. It also deals a significant amount of strength damage to living targets, so it's not completely situational. If you have nothing to work with but core, it's Deathward all the way and Magic Circle vs. Evil to block domination. If your cleric isn't a turn monkey, then Searing Light deals a crap ton of damage vs. vamps (d8 per level I think) and is a ranged touch attack to boot. Spontaneous casting of heal spells or the party's first aid stick can be rather potent weapons against a vamp as well. RAW, lycanthropy turns you CE. If your running an evil campaign all ready, then I guess it's not a problem. You get stat boosts, natural armor, and DR/silver. You can't get dominated by the vamp, but there isn't anything stopping them from sucking away your levels and Con. Okay here's what we have 10 Cleric who's trying pretty hard to be a turn monkey 7 Paladin / 3 Knight 9 Scout / 1 Ranger 6 Fighter / 4 Warhulk I THINK the last one is 4 Sorc / 4 Wiz / 2 Ultimate Magus My DM is mostly running RAW but he has quite few house rules so I couldn't tell you what he's thinking.
#11 zeratulcraft Dec 22, 2008 15:40:48	Why would you be a dinosaur with a bear when you can be a dinosaur with another dinosaur? 2 dinosaurs > 1 dinosaur Because if you're a big enough dinosaur, you can have your bear ride you. Also, Radiant Servant of Pelor is pretty awesome for wiping out undead.
#12 wizarddog Dec 22, 2008 19:08:12	Okay here's what we have 10 Cleric who's trying pretty hard to be a turn monkey 7 Paladin / 3 Knight 9 Scout / 1 Ranger 6 Fighter / 4 Warhulk I THINK the last one is 4 Sorc / 4 Wiz / 2 Ultimate Magus My DM is mostly running RAW but he has quite few house rules so I couldn't tell you what he's thinking. Well, by the make up of the party I know which books you are probably using. PHB2, CAdv, CS, CArcane, CMage, etc. I hope that ranger/scout took Undead as one of his Favored enemies because I am asuming he took the swift Hunter feat to stack his ranger and scout levels. He can deal precision damage on undead now! So you got someone to deal damage. The one arcane class however is only casting 3rd level spells. So the cleric is the most powerful in the group. It will mostly fall to that PC.
#13 DKase Dec 23, 2008 2:51:44	Okay here's what we have 10 Cleric who's trying pretty hard to be a turn monkey 7 Paladin / 3 Knight 9 Scout / 1 Ranger 6 Fighter / 4 Warhulk I THINK the last one is 4 Sorc / 4 Wiz / 2 Ultimate Magus My DM is mostly running RAW but he has quite few house rules so I couldn't tell you what he's thinking. There is a feat that allows cleric to spend to turning attempts (Disciple of the Sun?) to destroy all undead normally turned. If the DM allows it Libris Mortis has a couple of feats that can save you some pain from Level Draining as well. Use Lesser Restoration so you never have to sleep. After all, a cleric just has to be praying at the right time.