Weak against ranged - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Weak against ranged

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Zorrah
Jun 30, 2009 10:49:56 Our DM made an observation that our group as is, is weak against ranged attackers. What we have.

Barbarian, charasma build.
Lazer cleric.
Warden.
Druid.
Fighter.

Can't remember all the builds offhand, but he got the drop on us with some bandits, the barbarian got stuck in melee and the warden was stuck rushing the casters, it was a bad scene all around.

I am playing the warden myself. He's a goliath with a constitution build (can't remember which option that is, but I remember getting huge bonuses to ac and a couple of powers for having a high con). Already level 4, any advice on upping my ref def would be appreciated. I already use sword and board. Feats or magical item suggestions would be good on that front.

Working on trying to minimize that archer/mage weakness we have.
#2
txporter
Jun 30, 2009 12:58:16 To increase your reflex score, there are a number of magic items that will help (Boots of Quickness and basically all neck items add to all NADs, Cloak of Distortion is a favorite) but is that really what your DM meant? The problem appears that your party has few ways to deal damage from range...needing to close on targets to do damage. You need to find a way to slow up monsters so they cannot simply stay out of reach while dealing damage to you. Maybe some alchemy items to apply some effects: Alchemical Frost (slow), Tanglefoot bag (immobilize), Blinding bomb (blind), Slow-step Oil (slow), etc?
#3
Zorrah
Jun 30, 2009 14:00:14 Well, the lack of ranged damage is certainly part of the issue. But the DM said, if he just sends a bunch melee, even powerful melee, I hold them, the barbarian goes stomping through, but add a couple of archers, and the whole party takes a beating. I suppose it's the way 4th ed works in general, but I suppose this thread would be along the lines of a minimizing weaknesses question.
#4
countesskathleen
Jun 30, 2009 15:31:01 Your Druid might have some tricks to thwart enemies at range pulling them closer to your melee department or hassling them in beast form.

Your Cleric could have similar abilities via command or he could beaf you up with THP via Sacred Flame.

Your Barbarian might consider risking an AoO in order to go after the squishies. Team defender should be capable of keeping the enemy melee from following him to their back line.

Relentless Panther Form is a pretty good one for your Warden to deal with ranged foes. You get a Reflex bonus and become apt at moving around to get to the enemy back line once per day.

In general it's much better to jump at Artillery monsters' throats as soon as possible. Since ranged attackers usually have the highest attack bonus and mages attack your weak defenses on top of that, boosting your defenses will only help you a little. Interfering with their attacks and taking them down quickly is what serves you better. There's only so much you can do for your weak defenses anyway.
#5
Kerrus
Jun 30, 2009 16:15:44 I'd suggest your melee character, if they haven't already, pick up cloaks of distortion. -5 to ranged attack rolls for enemies more then 5 squares away is solidly powerful, and should allow you to get into charging distance while maintaining the ability to not get hit. Then you can crush those casters like the fleshies they are.
#6
kouk
Jul 03, 2009 0:35:41 Perhaps suggest to the DM that there be some kind of terrain you can use for cover or concealment against ranged attackers.

If your Druid is a beast specializer then he probably doesn't have much in the way of ranged counterattacks. Laser Clerics have very short range on their powers too.

Consider if you had a Wizard, he could drop a Flaming Sphere or Scorching Burst next to the archers from 10 squares away. A Warlock or Ranger or Sorcerer or Invoker could also blast things at a distance.

So really it's just your party design has certain weaknesses and certain strengths :P

Trying to fix your Warden's Reflex is likely futile. It can't hurt to bump it but you can't counter attackers that way, just take one or two fewer hits. Get some kind of terrain made by powers, or just get yourself over to the attackers -- or back off and try to change the location.
#7
rav514
Jul 03, 2009 14:00:59 Umm, cloak of distortion is a -5 to attack rolls if your attacker is more that 5 squares away. Short of rebuilding your party, that all i got. If they're under 5 squares your in melee or close, anyway. It's a must have equipment for a battlerager.
#8
mellored
Jul 06, 2009 10:00:47
Umm, cloak of distortion is a -5 to attack rolls if your attacker is more that 5 squares away. Short of rebuilding your party, that all i got. If they're under 5 squares your in melee or close, anyway. It's a must have equipment for a battlerager.

Battlerager's been errated, but cloaks work great.

Druid should look into slow/immobilize powers.

Look into getting charging stuff, move+charge = 10-14 spaces (barb can easily have more), which is further then most range powers.

With 2 defenders, risking OA's (and getting an attack yourself) works fine, and can even be beneficial (trade basic attacks, but their at -2).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Zorrah Jun 30, 2009 10:49:56	Our DM made an observation that our group as is, is weak against ranged attackers. What we have. Barbarian, charasma build. Lazer cleric. Warden. Druid. Fighter. Can't remember all the builds offhand, but he got the drop on us with some bandits, the barbarian got stuck in melee and the warden was stuck rushing the casters, it was a bad scene all around. I am playing the warden myself. He's a goliath with a constitution build (can't remember which option that is, but I remember getting huge bonuses to ac and a couple of powers for having a high con). Already level 4, any advice on upping my ref def would be appreciated. I already use sword and board. Feats or magical item suggestions would be good on that front. Working on trying to minimize that archer/mage weakness we have.
#2 txporter Jun 30, 2009 12:58:16	To increase your reflex score, there are a number of magic items that will help (Boots of Quickness and basically all neck items add to all NADs, Cloak of Distortion is a favorite) but is that really what your DM meant? The problem appears that your party has few ways to deal damage from range...needing to close on targets to do damage. You need to find a way to slow up monsters so they cannot simply stay out of reach while dealing damage to you. Maybe some alchemy items to apply some effects: Alchemical Frost (slow), Tanglefoot bag (immobilize), Blinding bomb (blind), Slow-step Oil (slow), etc?
#3 Zorrah Jun 30, 2009 14:00:14	Well, the lack of ranged damage is certainly part of the issue. But the DM said, if he just sends a bunch melee, even powerful melee, I hold them, the barbarian goes stomping through, but add a couple of archers, and the whole party takes a beating. I suppose it's the way 4th ed works in general, but I suppose this thread would be along the lines of a minimizing weaknesses question.
#4 countesskathleen Jun 30, 2009 15:31:01	Your Druid might have some tricks to thwart enemies at range pulling them closer to your melee department or hassling them in beast form. Your Cleric could have similar abilities via command or he could beaf you up with THP via Sacred Flame. Your Barbarian might consider risking an AoO in order to go after the squishies. Team defender should be capable of keeping the enemy melee from following him to their back line. Relentless Panther Form is a pretty good one for your Warden to deal with ranged foes. You get a Reflex bonus and become apt at moving around to get to the enemy back line once per day. In general it's much better to jump at Artillery monsters' throats as soon as possible. Since ranged attackers usually have the highest attack bonus and mages attack your weak defenses on top of that, boosting your defenses will only help you a little. Interfering with their attacks and taking them down quickly is what serves you better. There's only so much you can do for your weak defenses anyway.
#5 Kerrus Jun 30, 2009 16:15:44	I'd suggest your melee character, if they haven't already, pick up cloaks of distortion. -5 to ranged attack rolls for enemies more then 5 squares away is solidly powerful, and should allow you to get into charging distance while maintaining the ability to not get hit. Then you can crush those casters like the fleshies they are.
#6 kouk Jul 03, 2009 0:35:41	Perhaps suggest to the DM that there be some kind of terrain you can use for cover or concealment against ranged attackers. If your Druid is a beast specializer then he probably doesn't have much in the way of ranged counterattacks. Laser Clerics have very short range on their powers too. Consider if you had a Wizard, he could drop a Flaming Sphere or Scorching Burst next to the archers from 10 squares away. A Warlock or Ranger or Sorcerer or Invoker could also blast things at a distance. So really it's just your party design has certain weaknesses and certain strengths :P Trying to fix your Warden's Reflex is likely futile. It can't hurt to bump it but you can't counter attackers that way, just take one or two fewer hits. Get some kind of terrain made by powers, or just get yourself over to the attackers -- or back off and try to change the location.
#7 rav514 Jul 03, 2009 14:00:59	Umm, cloak of distortion is a -5 to attack rolls if your attacker is more that 5 squares away. Short of rebuilding your party, that all i got. If they're under 5 squares your in melee or close, anyway. It's a must have equipment for a battlerager.
#8 mellored Jul 06, 2009 10:00:47	Umm, cloak of distortion is a -5 to attack rolls if your attacker is more that 5 squares away. Short of rebuilding your party, that all i got. If they're under 5 squares your in melee or close, anyway. It's a must have equipment for a battlerager. Battlerager's been errated, but cloaks work great. Druid should look into slow/immobilize powers. Look into getting charging stuff, move+charge = 10-14 spaces (barb can easily have more), which is further then most range powers. With 2 defenders, risking OA's (and getting an attack yourself) works fine, and can even be beneficial (trade basic attacks, but their at -2).