He is also
It's getting to be a bit of a problem for my character (not really for me), and he desperately wants a solution. I'm not doing anything in terms of switching playing groups because I love playing with those guys (most of them are excellent roleplayers and have vivid imaginations, and the campaign is getting to a very cool point). But it's not easy being the genius lawful-good leader of a party of evil idiots,* you know?
* They're literally idiots. When we were trapped in a labyrinth without an exit door and came to the conclusion that we had to blast our way out of there through one of the walls, the human sorcerer, in all his brilliance, tried to psychically defeat a stone wall (to his credit, I doubt the wall had a higher will than him). When the human bard with a knack for stealing objects (especially those that contain new knowledge) found himself all alone in the city library of an ancient deva settlement, the one book he chose to steal was a dirty bedtime book. Yes, my dwarf character pities their lack of neural activity.
Killing them all would be the obvious solution to his problem, what with them being evil and him being lawful good, but he's smart enough to know when a battle in unwinnable (and he's not a paladin, so he's not honour-bound to die fighting or anything of the sort). He's an artificer, for ****'s sake, and the rest of the party is made up of a defender, a healer and three strikers. One of the strikers, a changeling assassin, can deal 50 damage per round using only at-will powers, and my artificer's hp is 88. All three strikers target ac or ref, and my character's highest defence is will. The defender is a minotaur warden with over 120 hp, and artificers have some of the least damaging attacks. Even if I tried killing them off one by one, the sorcerer and the assassin cannot be pitched against each other because they're members of the same assassins' guild. My character could get the bard on his side, since the bard is being consumed by the Eye of Vecna and therefore seeks knowledge and secrets (which my character can easily provide) and since the assassin and the bard have an ongoing feud against each other, but I doubt that would be enough. I could bribe the bard and betray the rest of them while they're low in hp after a difficult battle, but I'm inclined to believe all lawful-good characters are above an act so heinous.
No, my artificer is basically stuck making magic items for the rest of the party so they won't kill him (the assassin hates him for some reason, and I'm starting to think the warden isn't too keen on him either). Or do you have a solution?
This has the obvious mechanical implementation of you making a new character and the promise that sometime in the future, you get to fight your old character and whatever friends he made that he thinks can deal with the old party.
Yeah, pretty obvious he'd just up and leave at the first opportunity. Also, remember that actions determine alignment, not the other way around. Your alignment doesn't stop you from doing anything. However, 4e is not built for PvP, and even if these guys deserve it by being evil schmucks, attacking fellow PCs is bad form in any game.
- Gather evidence of the party's evil acts. You've already infiltrated their group, so you have an edge there.
- Present the evidence to:
- The town guard, or
- A militant lawful good religious organization of your choice (I'd pick the Silver Flame, depending on the setting), or
- A group of heroes that seek to rid the world of evil-doers like your party.
- Talk them into setting an ambush. Any dungeon or alley will suffice.
- Lead your party into the ambush.
- Reveal your goodie-two-shoes scheme to your fellows as the ambushers come out and surround the party.
- Grab your other character sheet, and help your party defeat your old character and his new friends.
- Have your old character flee the scene and swear to hunt down the party... in due time. You now have a BGGG (Big Great Good Guy) to act as a rival for your party.
When my character was neutral, he didn't really mind having the others around, since 1) they helped him achieve his own goals and 2) they weren't all that evil back then (the bard hadn't found the Eye of Vecna and was aldo neutral, and the "unholy" acts of the others amounted to being overly sadistic when killing the party's enemies. Between the bard being consumed by the meanest god in existence and the rest of the party gradually stepping up their maliciousness until they reached the point of turning a fairly cooperative adventuring group into a dysfunctional anarchy where each person holds a grudge against the next, however, my character suddenly began to find himself in a very tight spot, especially with the lack of resources and the increasing greed of the party members.
By the time this had happened, however, the party had already travelled through an interplanar portal to a horrible place inhabited by minotaurs, devas and allegedly Orcus (there had been a good reason to travel there in the beginning, but then everything went slightly awry...). I needed the minotaurs' help to escape the place, and the evils lurking at every corner were too much for my character to handle alone, so he stuck with the others until he was able to return to the mortal plane. There he quickly travelled by foot (the only means available at the time) back home -- only to fnd that his home had been destroyed by a dracolich invoked by an insane(ly corrupt) politician. The rest of the party was also headed in that direction, so he couldn't really get rid of them just yet, which was just as well because he couldn't have handled the dracolich by himself. Eventually the dracolich was dealt with and my character used a portal scroll to communicate with his alchemy professor and request rescue. Basically, this is the only point at which he's ever been able to get rid of the party.
This is where the heroic-tier campaign ended, and the paragon-tier campaign is set to begin a few months later, when each has gone their separate ways. The plan was/is to have the characters reunite by chance and begin adventuring together once again.
After reading your posts, I realise that this provides a fairly easy opportunity to get rid of the problem, since I can just create a new 11th-level character of evil alignment and have it journey with the party instead of my old character. This is something I had not considered before mainly because I love this character and I'm very interested in watching him grow to level 30. In fact, if there is any way to keep him I'd prefer that, but if there isn't I'll just make a new character and have the artificer appear in another campaign.
Concerning the personality/alignment and the actions, I would generally agree that alignment is basically how others perceive you and therefore it is your actions that determine your alignment and not the other way around, but in this case the brain electrocution my character suffered changed a few of his neural pathways and caused him to suddenly be completely revolted at the idea of anything evil. It's a little bit like what happened to Alex in A clockwork orange, I suppose. The dm ruled this, and despite my protests that that didn't make much sense I couldn't talk him out of it. Since that moment, I've tried my best to roleplay the new alignment without grinding the rest of the party to a halt because my character disagrees with everything they set out to do. It hasn't been easy.
I do love the idea of having the bard-of-Avandra-turned-puppet-of-Vecna return at epic tier as my artificer's arch-nemesis, and I've discussed this extensively with the person playing the bard. This, however, leaves a few problems open (if I opt for the idea you've all suggested to make another character): If my character finds another party to kill the previous one, it would probably require some dice-fudging on behalf of the dm to keep the bard and the artificer alive and kill off everybody else. Also, the other players won't exactly be happy at my character betraying theirs and will probably have their characters hunt mine down and slaughter him.
As I said, the idea of making a new character and leaving this one for another campaign appeals to me somewhat, but if there's another way I'd like to hear it.
Thanks! =)
I do love the idea of having the bard-of-Avandra-turned-puppet-of-Vecna return at epic tier as my artificer's arch-nemesis, and I've discussed this extensively with the person playing the bard. This, however, leaves a few problems open (if I opt for the idea you've all suggested to make another character): If my character finds another party to kill the previous one, it would probably require some dice-fudging on behalf of the dm to keep the bard and the artificer alive and kill off everybody else. Also, the other players won't exactly be happy at my character betraying theirs and will probably have their characters hunt mine down and slaughter him.
The idea is that your character goes and finds new friends, and those new friends TRY to kill off the rest of your party... and fail, barely getting out alive (and some of them not managing that). Maybe the intervention of your NEW evil character, who has a grudge against some of the artificer's new friends, contributes to that failure.
So most/all of your old party survive, your artificer is now an NPC and an enemy of the group, your new character is introduced to the party and is an enemy of the NPC-artificer's allies, they find common cause...
(That last bit is what tends to be hard in evil parties. The one mostly-evil party I was in fell apart quickly, and that was precisely why. It's much easier to play an evil character in a mostly-good party; he can pretend to make common cause with them, or he can honestly join with them to dispose of an evil that is in the way of his own ambitions, or...)
Eventually, your artificer comes back (still an NPC) to be the epic foe for the party.
After reading your posts, I realise that this provides a fairly easy opportunity to get rid of the problem, since I can just create a new 11th-level character of evil alignment and have it journey with the party instead of my old character. This is something I had not considered before mainly because I love this character and I'm very interested in watching him grow to level 30. In fact, if there is any way to keep him I'd prefer that, but if there isn't I'll just make a new character and have the artificer appear in another campaign.
Yeah, I think this is your best solution.
Although I would be worried that the alignment wankery might happen again. I mean how many characters are you going to have to go thru before you quit, or your DM realizes he shouldn't be telling you how to role play?
use this to rebuild your character / alignment to a vamp or something
trick the bard into doing the same
exploit the one assassins guild to local leader / law enforcement
hopefuly they well run (keep a eye opean in case they find out who did it)
kill them off two-one and one at a time
see about curing the bard
or
make one big bomb
lure them to it
boom
or
cut a hole in a box
put yo junk in the box
give them the box
kill them well there stunned
But seriously, I'd like to point out something about what happened to your character:
By any good standard, reversing what happened to your character would be the right thing to do. If we have to get real about this, your character suffered a traumatic brain injury (or a mental kind of **** if it was done deliberately, ala Clockwork Orange), and reversing that is right and decent. He is within his rights to go looking for a ritual or a wizard or a god to reverse this process. And ironically, reversing this process should be a goal that your evil party supports, since he's been a pain-in-the-neck ever since he was fried, but he's still useful.
If your DM won't support a quest to get this done, I'd talk to him and tell him that this is no longer fun for you and ask him to reconsider, and if that doesn't work, tell him that you'd like to create a new character.
And nothing is better then share good fealings with your firends.
Maybe conspire with the DM to set up accidents that also make the other players good aligned.
as it might be considerd a good act to bring them around from their evil ways, and your smart enough compared to the rest of the party that if you do it right they will never expect your behind this strange series of accedents.
Your character might start searching for items to change aligments convincing the other players you want to return to your old self.
then there are 2 options
1 you use the items to also make the other players good aligned.
2 you have another malfunction and shift aligment again.
Uchawi's idea is something of a double-edged sword. It can be tons of fun if done right, but it can break the game if done wrong. I'm not adverse to it, though. If phillstreet's idea doesn't work, I'll turn to Uchawi's, and if that doesn't work I'll do what the others said: make a new character.
Thanks to all of you for your advice. =)
He's an artificer, for ****'s sake,
And there in lies your answer.
You turn your big brain towards tinkering up the classic Helm of Alignment changing
You then convert the evil idiots into GOOD idiots.
Or;
You could use the evil idiots to further the cause of good.
You simply stear them on missions against foes that any GOOD character would willingly go hack up.
You lead & keep them away from civilization/inocents.
And then whoever dies? Be it BBEG or idiots? +
Seriously, though, using them sounds like the sort of thing I could do wthout them realising it. And then they'll probaby end up as casualties of war, bwahahaha...
Seriously, though, using them sounds like the sort of thing I could do wthout them realising it. And then they'll probaby end up as casualties of war, bwahahaha...
Lawful Good doesn't laugh like that...
This is a narrative thing that shouldn't require any dice rolling, bookkeeping or reporting - just play the character the way you want to play it. Evil isn't something you are; it's something you do, so if you want the character to be evil, do evil.