Now, my current DM is a very RAW kind of guy, and he doesnt really have all that much flexibility in terms of what I've been able to pull off thus far, and there's a lot of overlap between what should/can be handled with acrobatics vs what the rules say you use Athletics for, like... jumping.
What have you guys been able to do with acrobatics? Long jumps? Charges over difficult terrain? Swinging from things? I wanted to be able to jump down off a 15 foot roof and attack someone with Angelic Alacrity (Shift 4 then attack), but I got vetoed. What do you guys think?
Acrobatics is a very cool skill. Potentially one of the most useful in the game - depending entirely on how flexible your DM is. It essentially says "Here, say something cool and hope your DM will allow it."
Now, my current DM is a very RAW kind of guy, and he doesnt really have all that much flexibility in terms of what I've been able to pull off thus far, and there's a lot of overlap between what should/can be handled with acrobatics vs what the rules say you use Athletics for, like... jumping.
What have you guys been able to do with acrobatics? Long jumps? Charges over difficult terrain? Swinging from things? I wanted to be able to jump down off a 15 foot roof and attack someone with Angelic Alacrity (Shift 4 then attack), but I got vetoed. What do you guys think?
That particular example is very personal at the moment. I was on the roof yesterday removing some limbs from a tree I was about to cut down and knocked down the ladder. Sitting on the edge of the roof and using the tree for support I was able to reduce the drop to the ground to around six feet. Even then, I pulled a muscle in my leg and my knee screams every time I bend it too far.
If a player asked me right now if he could jump off a 15' roof and do *anything* I'd tell him no fricken way!
And heck the Cleric can patch him up instantaneously afterward.
It's true, I certainly wouldnt want to jump 15 feet down and try to do something when I landed, but then I dont have a +14 acrobatics check. I'm probably lucky if I could boast a +2.
It wasnt even a matter of "Can I do it and not get the crap beaten out of me by the ground when we eventually meet?" but "Can I do this at all?" I'd have been thrilled to even get to the "Yes, but the DC is ." There are rules in place for how much damage you take from falling, and that you land prone if you take any damage at all from the fall, but there are no hard rules on what you can do on the way down.
I think if you've got an effect that lets you move several squares, you should be able to fall those squares and make the attack. You could even call it a basic charge. You can jump as part of a charge cant you? I remember reading about some builds that let you jump over difficult terrain as part of a charge in 3.5, can you still do that?
How about this, we're on the roof of a building (shingle roof I think) and it's declared difficult terrain. Can you make an acrobatics check to negate the difficulty? Balancing on things is pretty much written out in the RAW, but in this instance... I really dont find myself often trying to walk a tightrope in D&D, especially in combat, but there are all sorts of things I can think of that someone like
This could pull off that would be combat relevant.Or this guy?
Of course he's SOL if/when he gets to be around 50 but ... campaigns don't usually last that long anyway.
My avenger is a dwarf trained in acrobatics with a greataxe. I though the image of it was greatly amusing. Somewhat reminiscent of Puck, of Alpha Flight.
Swings from things with his axe of course
I find that acrobatics is underused. The worst thing is a character with +10 acrobatics and -1 athletics that can do anything on a junglegym or trapeze, but somehow can't climb or jump...
I do DC 15+enemy level to move through enemy squares. One check per enemy each round (free, as part of a move action). Failure means you end your move outside that enemy's space. And you don't even provoke OAs if you're shifting.
Jackie Chan rolls acrobatics for his stunts. Arnold Swartzeenananwhatever rolls athletics.
Jackie Chan rolls acrobatics for his stunts.
What?! That's crazy Nived. You're crazy!
Acrobatics is a very cool skill. Potentially one of the most useful in the game - depending entirely on how flexible your DM is. It essentially says "Here, say something cool and hope your DM will allow it."
Now, my current DM is a very RAW kind of guy, and he doesnt really have all that much flexibility in terms of what I've been able to pull off thus far, and there's a lot of overlap between what should/can be handled with acrobatics vs what the rules say you use Athletics for, like... jumping.
What have you guys been able to do with acrobatics? Long jumps? Charges over difficult terrain? Swinging from things? I wanted to be able to jump down off a 15 foot roof and attack someone with Angelic Alacrity (Shift 4 then attack), but I got vetoed. What do you guys think?
That particular example is very personal at the moment. I was on the roof yesterday removing some limbs from a tree I was about to cut down and knocked down the ladder. Sitting on the edge of the roof and using the tree for support I was able to reduce the drop to the ground to around six feet. Even then, I pulled a muscle in my leg and my knee screams every time I bend it too far.
If a player asked me right now if he could jump off a 15' roof and do *anything* I'd tell him no fricken way!
Because you're a 5'6" young adult fantasy creature with unnatural grace, and olympic caliber acrobatics training, am I right?
T
If I'm not mistaken, Acrobatics can be used to break a grab, can't it?
T
Yep; this is what's listed for Acrobatics essentially:
* Break a grab (Acrobatics vs enemy Reflex)
* Balancing
* Attempt an acrobatic stunt
The thing with Acrobatics and Intimidate, is that they're all easily subject to DM discretion. While an Acrobatic stunt is already listed in the DMG -- page 43 -- it's just one example mentioned, leaving it up to the player and DM to decide what's possible, how, and how hard it could be.
Acrobatics:
The enemy is perched 50 feet high, on top of a cliff. Normal rules dictate that you use your Athletics to climb... but you noticed that there are a bunch of 40-foot trees at the base of the cliffside. "Could I climb up to a branch in the tree that's around 5 foot high, then proceed to swing towards the cliffside, then jump and swing back and forth to the top where, right before I land on my feet, I deliver a swift kick to the enemy, sending him sprawling off the cliff?"
As a DM, I'd probably let him try: first, athletics climb 1 square. Then an Acrobatics stunt (DC 18 I suppose) for the rappelling up to half his speed. Then as a standard action, make another Acrobatics stunt (again, DC 18) which, on a success, would let him climb up to half speed again, then have him spend an action point to make another Acrobatics stunt (same DC) to be able to leap over the cliff and make a DEX vs Reflex attack with Combat Advantage. If he succeeds on that, I'd let him slide the enemy 1 square, with the enemy attempting to save. If the enemy fails to save, that's 4d10 damage and prone.
Critically failing at any point would have him fall up to 40 feet.
[If he doesn't want to use an action point, he would need to wait another round to make the fantabulous attack... assuming the enemy didn't even see him climb up or (stupidly) refused to change his position and tactics, in spite of seeing someone climb faster than Spiderman to his position.]
Athletics:
Even though Athletics is often relegated to skill challenges typically, I see no reason for Athletics to not be used for (improvised) terrain powers. Pushing over trees, breaking through doors or walls, kicking up tables to knock enemies down or away... heck, even tearing down the abovementioned cliffside and causing the sniper to fall down [it would be downright insane a DC pre-epic tier, but by epic tier you're supposed to be able to challenge GODS for crying out loud, mountains shouldn't be a problem ;) ]. Essentially it'd be Athletics (or Acrobatics, or even just Level +2 or Level +3, depending on what's supposed to happen) versus a given DC, then damage output or effect based on what seems to be the most logical for the type of outcome that would happen from that terrain power.
Essentially I'd like to consider them this way: if you want something done with style, do Acrobatics, but if something requires muscle (and isn't Bull Rush), Athletics is the way to go :D
Acrobatics is a very cool skill. Potentially one of the most useful in the game - depending entirely on how flexible your DM is. It essentially says "Here, say something cool and hope your DM will allow it."
Now, my current DM is a very RAW kind of guy, and he doesnt really have all that much flexibility in terms of what I've been able to pull off thus far, and there's a lot of overlap between what should/can be handled with acrobatics vs what the rules say you use Athletics for, like... jumping.
What have you guys been able to do with acrobatics? Long jumps? Charges over difficult terrain? Swinging from things? I wanted to be able to jump down off a 15 foot roof and attack someone with Angelic Alacrity (Shift 4 then attack), but I got vetoed. What do you guys think?
A character in my group charmed a women with it but doing lots of tumbling around, showing off and general tom foolery.
I let characters swing round poles and up inclines, like a poledancer sort of things.