what happens to the dwarf? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

what happens to the dwarf?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zerve_da
Aug 10, 2008 22:33:37 I have a friend who is a fighter and has taken the Iron Vanguard paragon path. one of his powers is Inexorable Shift: Effect: "Shift into any adjacent square. If a creature occupies that square into which you shift, you push that creature 1 square."

And because he knows his PHB well, he asked me the question that if he fought a dwarf with this power, and the dwarf chose not to move, would he A: move into the square and he and the dwarf occupy the same square, or B:not shift into the square because the dwarf is still there?

Thanks for the Feedback
#2
kouk
Aug 10, 2008 23:15:46 I'd rule the dwarf doesn't move. They are immune to effects which force movement of 1 square.

If you want to let him squeeze, then follow those rules I guess. Not advantageous for either of them though, so if he sees his enemy ain't moving despite using the power, I'd let the player choose to stay in his original square (still used up the power though).
#3
Cohen95
Aug 11, 2008 0:18:47
I'd rule the dwarf doesn't move. They are immune to effects which force movement of 1 square.

If you want to let him squeeze, then follow those rules I guess. Not advantageous for either of them though, so if he sees his enemy ain't moving despite using the power, I'd let the player choose to stay in his original square (still used up the power though).

Well, play it smart, as the DM. If the Dwarf feels it's a more strategic maneuver to be moved, and have the fighter shift up a square, let him.
#4
salla
Aug 11, 2008 0:20:38 If the Dwarf chooses not to move, the fighter will 'bounce off' and return to the original square, I would say. Them dwarves can be darned stubborn when the mood strikes 'em.
#5
kouk
Aug 11, 2008 1:17:00
Well, play it smart, as the DM. If the Dwarf feels it's a more strategic maneuver to be moved, and have the fighter shift up a square, let him.

Sure, but the original question came with the idea the dwarf didn't want to move.
#6
drmorganes
Aug 11, 2008 7:06:59
I'd rule the dwarf doesn't move. They are immune to effects which force movement of 1 square.

If you want to let him squeeze, then follow those rules I guess. Not advantageous for either of them though, so if he sees his enemy ain't moving despite using the power, I'd let the player choose to stay in his original square (still used up the power though).

This.

Remembering the first two of the Three Basic Rules (PHB, p11) will help a lot here.
Simple Rules, Many Exceptions
Specific Beats General
"Always Round Down" is irrelevant to this conversation ;)

In this case, the general rule is that a character cannot end his movement in a square occupied by another character. The first specific rule is Inexorable Shift, which allows you to "bump" another character as you shift into his square. The second specific rule is the dwarven racial trait Stand Your Ground, which states that push, pull, or slide effects of 1 square don't move you unless you want to move.
#7
brugo
Aug 11, 2008 16:34:52 and the dwarf is unlikely to want to move, since the Iron vanguard will deal damage equal to his constitution modifer if the dwarf moves.

but it might let him get out of a flank or something so you never know I guess
#8
Kaganfindel
Aug 14, 2008 16:12:18 I'd tell the player to pick another square.
#9
serphet
Aug 14, 2008 20:28:30 I see the dwarf getting erata'd so that stand your ground changes "the dwarf moves 1 square less than the effect spcifies" to "the dwarf moves 1 square less than the effect spcifies(minimum 1 square)"

otherwise the dwarf is immune to a lot of effects.
#10
zerve_da
Aug 17, 2008 18:45:38 Well the reason i ask this is because my PCs like to spar with each other until every1 arrives to go on with the campiagn and i also have a dwarf paladin in the party who fought against him, and they just want to know if the dwarf had to move because that would have decided the match(as we know it the dwarf won, but if he had to move he would have been done for.)
#11
daeva
Aug 17, 2008 23:37:29
I see the dwarf getting erata'd so that stand your ground changes "the dwarf moves 1 square less than the effect spcifies" to "the dwarf moves 1 square less than the effect spcifies(minimum 1 square)"

otherwise the dwarf is immune to a lot of effects.

i kinda think that's part of the point actually.
#12
serphet
Aug 18, 2008 18:09:08
i kinda think that's part of the point actually.

that's a pretty powerful racial resistance then...
#13
ogre4hire
Aug 18, 2008 19:29:43 Given what the other races get (Elven Accuracy, Tiefling's Resistance to Fire, Human's bonus to Defenses), it ought to be.
#14
serphet
Aug 18, 2008 21:36:54 so the dwarf is immune to bullrush, and pulling (in a grab) is very wanky....

Given what the other races get (Elven Accuracy, Tiefling's Resistance to Fire, Human's bonus to Defenses), it ought to be.

notably the dwarves have alot of other advantages, the saves vs poison , and the second wind as a minor action. (also no encumbrance)
#15
ogre4hire
Aug 19, 2008 19:55:56 True, but they're also the only race that lacks a racial Encounter Power, and they have a slower base movement rate compared to everyone else.
#16
arelia
Aug 20, 2008 0:12:01 I'm perfectly willing to let the dwarves have their mildly overpowered racial attributes because they're mostly flavor-based rather than "What can we give them to beef them up a little more?", and because they make me laugh. I like dwarves.

Eldarin, on the other hand, can go back to their Feywild thing and never come back. And rocks fall on them and they all die. There's only room for ONE mysterious, slender, pointy-eared insomniac race in MY world!
#17
tyrandor
Aug 23, 2008 9:33:43
There's only room for ONE mysterious, slender, pointy-eared insomniac race in MY world!

So Eladrin fit right in then?
#18
daeva
Aug 23, 2008 15:19:23 yeah... that's exactly what he said good job...
#19
snkn
Aug 23, 2008 16:49:07 They merge together into a single creature, this is how half-dwarves are formed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zerve_da Aug 10, 2008 22:33:37	I have a friend who is a fighter and has taken the Iron Vanguard paragon path. one of his powers is Inexorable Shift: Effect: "Shift into any adjacent square. If a creature occupies that square into which you shift, you push that creature 1 square." And because he knows his PHB well, he asked me the question that if he fought a dwarf with this power, and the dwarf chose not to move, would he A: move into the square and he and the dwarf occupy the same square, or B:not shift into the square because the dwarf is still there? Thanks for the Feedback
#2 kouk Aug 10, 2008 23:15:46	I'd rule the dwarf doesn't move. They are immune to effects which force movement of 1 square. If you want to let him squeeze, then follow those rules I guess. Not advantageous for either of them though, so if he sees his enemy ain't moving despite using the power, I'd let the player choose to stay in his original square (still used up the power though).
#3 Cohen95 Aug 11, 2008 0:18:47	I'd rule the dwarf doesn't move. They are immune to effects which force movement of 1 square. If you want to let him squeeze, then follow those rules I guess. Not advantageous for either of them though, so if he sees his enemy ain't moving despite using the power, I'd let the player choose to stay in his original square (still used up the power though). Well, play it smart, as the DM. If the Dwarf feels it's a more strategic maneuver to be moved, and have the fighter shift up a square, let him.
#4 salla Aug 11, 2008 0:20:38	If the Dwarf chooses not to move, the fighter will 'bounce off' and return to the original square, I would say. Them dwarves can be darned stubborn when the mood strikes 'em.
#5 kouk Aug 11, 2008 1:17:00	Well, play it smart, as the DM. If the Dwarf feels it's a more strategic maneuver to be moved, and have the fighter shift up a square, let him. Sure, but the original question came with the idea the dwarf didn't want to move.
#6 drmorganes Aug 11, 2008 7:06:59	I'd rule the dwarf doesn't move. They are immune to effects which force movement of 1 square. If you want to let him squeeze, then follow those rules I guess. Not advantageous for either of them though, so if he sees his enemy ain't moving despite using the power, I'd let the player choose to stay in his original square (still used up the power though). This. Remembering the first two of the Three Basic Rules (PHB, p11) will help a lot here. Simple Rules, Many Exceptions Specific Beats General "Always Round Down" is irrelevant to this conversation ;) In this case, the general rule is that a character cannot end his movement in a square occupied by another character. The first specific rule is Inexorable Shift, which allows you to "bump" another character as you shift into his square. The second specific rule is the dwarven racial trait Stand Your Ground, which states that push, pull, or slide effects of 1 square don't move you unless you want to move.
#7 brugo Aug 11, 2008 16:34:52	and the dwarf is unlikely to want to move, since the Iron vanguard will deal damage equal to his constitution modifer if the dwarf moves. but it might let him get out of a flank or something so you never know I guess
#8 Kaganfindel Aug 14, 2008 16:12:18	I'd tell the player to pick another square.
#9 serphet Aug 14, 2008 20:28:30	I see the dwarf getting erata'd so that stand your ground changes "the dwarf moves 1 square less than the effect spcifies" to "the dwarf moves 1 square less than the effect spcifies(minimum 1 square)" otherwise the dwarf is immune to a lot of effects.
#10 zerve_da Aug 17, 2008 18:45:38	Well the reason i ask this is because my PCs like to spar with each other until every1 arrives to go on with the campiagn and i also have a dwarf paladin in the party who fought against him, and they just want to know if the dwarf had to move because that would have decided the match(as we know it the dwarf won, but if he had to move he would have been done for.)
#11 daeva Aug 17, 2008 23:37:29	I see the dwarf getting erata'd so that stand your ground changes "the dwarf moves 1 square less than the effect spcifies" to "the dwarf moves 1 square less than the effect spcifies(minimum 1 square)" otherwise the dwarf is immune to a lot of effects. i kinda think that's part of the point actually.
#12 serphet Aug 18, 2008 18:09:08	i kinda think that's part of the point actually. that's a pretty powerful racial resistance then...
#13 ogre4hire Aug 18, 2008 19:29:43	Given what the other races get (Elven Accuracy, Tiefling's Resistance to Fire, Human's bonus to Defenses), it ought to be.
#14 serphet Aug 18, 2008 21:36:54	so the dwarf is immune to bullrush, and pulling (in a grab) is very wanky.... Given what the other races get (Elven Accuracy, Tiefling's Resistance to Fire, Human's bonus to Defenses), it ought to be. notably the dwarves have alot of other advantages, the saves vs poison , and the second wind as a minor action. (also no encumbrance)
#15 ogre4hire Aug 19, 2008 19:55:56	True, but they're also the only race that lacks a racial Encounter Power, and they have a slower base movement rate compared to everyone else.
#16 arelia Aug 20, 2008 0:12:01	I'm perfectly willing to let the dwarves have their mildly overpowered racial attributes because they're mostly flavor-based rather than "What can we give them to beef them up a little more?", and because they make me laugh. I like dwarves. Eldarin, on the other hand, can go back to their Feywild thing and never come back. And rocks fall on them and they all die. There's only room for ONE mysterious, slender, pointy-eared insomniac race in MY world!
#17 tyrandor Aug 23, 2008 9:33:43	There's only room for ONE mysterious, slender, pointy-eared insomniac race in MY world! So Eladrin fit right in then?
#18 daeva Aug 23, 2008 15:19:23	yeah... that's exactly what he said good job...
#19 snkn Aug 23, 2008 16:49:07	They merge together into a single creature, this is how half-dwarves are formed.