Doesn't really take place in a D&D setting (SW SAGA actually) but I'm facing a pretty annoying player dilemma right now. Basically, it takes part in the era where the my char. class (Jedi) is being actively hunted by the Empire and 1/2 the party are Jedi. Now we have 2 rogues, one who plays like a lawful neutral one and the other chaotic evil. We've had 3 sessions so far and the first session was decent, because the chaotic evil rogue hadn't joined yet. But basically from the 2nd session onwards, group cohesiveness has just been going down because the chaotic evil rogue just behaves like an a--hole. Here's what happened
a) Upon first meeting my char, who was in a trance because of a recent encounter, the rogue came close to me and then tried to use a poison needle to stab me. He failed but in return I took out my sword and slashed at him which I figured was a in-char reaction to some stranger you've never met trying to stab you with a needle. Luckily the T.N rogue defused the situation by talking the C.E rogue down.
b) The C.E rogue then made constant remarks about selling me and the other jedi out to the Empire. At which point, I flat out told the other PC to beware the rogue and not to let their guard down around him and be ready in case he tried anything funny and we had to take him out. He seemed offended at this.
c) 3rd session. We went through the combat fine and were returning to base. I walked up to the toilet and got back to see a piece of paper the rogue had passed to the GM asking how much he would get if he sold us to the empire and how long it would take them to get to our secret hideout. At this point, I'm already annoyed mostly because the rogue's real life player is also annoying. So when we make a report back, I hang back and request to talk to the Master of the order privately because he's the one sending us on all the missions and paying us. I tell the master in a private conversation; although all the other players are still there and so know whats going on in a metagame sense, that I don't trust the rogue and that same thing, we should be wary of him. This is just to raise the NPCs alertness level so that if the rogue tries anything funny again, they will at least be prepared for it and react accordingly. The C.E rogue seems annoyed again and accuses me of metagaming, nevermind the fact that my character basically doesn't trust his because of all the open comments he made about selling us out and trying to poison me the first time.
So that's the sum of what has happened so far. Basically, I was talking to the L.N rogue and he suggested that perhaps I shouldn't have drawn my sword on him after he tried to poison me, because that would make anyone want to attk me. And that secondly, we try to get the master to pay the rogue more, so that he doesn't try to sell us out. I don't know, but should players HAVE to bribe other players just to get them not to sell them out? I mean, his advice to me was basically 'suck it up, don't react when he attks you and try to bribe him'. I mean, is this seriously accepted behaviour???? Am I over-reacting? Because I have said that if he keeps trying to sell us out, my char will be forced to defend himself pre-emptively. I mean, would most people seriously consider adventuring on with such a party member or just boot him out?
I will never understand why people play characters like this.
Essentially, the 'CE' scoundrel is using the fact that he's a PC to get away with being a jerk. Heck, he tried to murder you in your sleep; I wouldn't have blinked twice at you if you tried to finish him off then and there.
It's obvious he can't be trusted and that he's a liability, if not an outright enemy. I would recommend dropping off on some undeveloped backwater world in the Outer Rim and stranding him.
If he complains about you metagaming, remind him that he tried to murder you in your sleep and has openly declared his intent and desire to betray you. Nobody is going to hang around with someone who has made it abundantly clear that he's going to stab them in the back.
If anything, it would be metagaming NOT to kill him or leave him on a stranded planet. The only knowledge your character has is that this evil Rogue is constantly trying to kill him. Either convince your DM to do something about it, convince the player that you won't stand him acting like this, or just get rid of him in-game.
If anything, it would be metagaming NOT to kill him or leave him on a stranded planet. The only knowledge your character has is that this evil Rogue is constantly trying to kill him. Either convince your DM to do something about it, convince the player that you won't stand him acting like this, or just get rid of him in-game.
+1.
Just leave him on some planet with enough credits to get by for a day or two. If he comes after you out of spite, butcher him like a hog. If he tries to follow you, wipe his mind (can jedi do that?). If the player gets upset, explain that your characters don't want a backstabber around.
(Sidenote: can you play a draoid or a jawa in Starwars?)
See what the other players think. If they think its funny or totally a neat dynamic, your option is to grin and bear it or leave. If they are also annoyed, or at least would prefer he stop, before the next session say
- "Hey dude, quit being an a-hole or we will strand your PC on some non-inhabited planet, forcing you to reroll"
- "DM, this guy is ruining our fun, by playing what is essentially an enemy, ask him to reroll"
- " Hey dude, do you mind rerolling into something that fits with the party? I am tired of seriously metagaming to keep you around. All of our PCs would totally have killed you if you were an NPC by now"
You can't solve this in game, so just mention it before the next game.
Well, the GM basically asked us before the start of the 3rd session what we thought of the rogue player and if we found him annoying. Probably because he spends a lot of time arguing with the GM at times. The other jedi player also found him annoying but I'm not sure if that's because of personal char or because of his player chars actions, but he's a more let-live kind of guy. The rogue player is fine with him because he hasn't tried to sell the other rogue char off yet, and somehow thinks I'm aggravating the situation by warning other jedi to be wary of the droid -_- and told me that next time he wouldn't stop the droid from alerting the sith. Or try to talk him out of it.
I have my own plans to kill the char IF he does anything or tries to do anything. I was just wondering if I was being too extreme because the other rogue was trying to get me to accept the chaotic evil rogues actions as being somehow perfectly acceptable in a social gaming dynamic. Not to mention the GM has said he wants to do a more light-sided campaign.
As it is, i'll probably see if I can talk to the guy before hand and try to resolve things before the session. Something along the lines of 'stop trying to sell us out and I'll stop coming up with ways to kill you in case you do'. Not sure if that'll work cause he seems obsessed about how badass his char is and backing down may seem like weakness. But just in case he doesn't, I'm probably going to set a few plans in motion before then.
sidenote: You can't play jawa but you can play droids in the SW RPG.
Honestly i would ask the dm and the other players. if 1/2 the group considers him a problem try to talk to him as a group. tell him that he is ruining your fun and try to get him to reroll to something that eveyone (including the problem player) can be happier with. If he refuses or contiunes to play a jerk eject him from the game.
But remember he cant sell you out without the dm's permision. if he tries and the gm lets him you know where you dm stands on the issue. if you dm dosent want it to happen it simply dosent. Heck he could try to teach the player a lesson by allowing you guys to get away somehow and the rogue is taken away for "questioning" never to be seen again.
Sidenote: Who says you cant be a jawa? i used to follow saga when it first came out and they released jawa stats online a long time ago.
Remind the scoundrel that while the Empire might reward him they would just as likely(if not more-so) enslave or kill him instead(but wait untill he says he wants to sell you, otherwise you are escalting) wereas jedi are well known for keeping their word(and paying fairly). Most people will not willingly enter a deal where there is a 50/50 chance to die.
this is the fault of the dm and the potential-ly annoying player, out of game session i would call the gm/dm and ask what was the reasoning of letting a chaotic evil party member in group that isn't cohesive to the party.
when playing chaotic evil characters it falls on the players shoulders (and the dm/gm) to not only play alignment (easy) but to keep the party productlivly involved in the story line without the party caving in on itself and killing eachother (hard) or otherwise destroy the fun of the entire group.
as imo this is the gm/dm's mistake he should allow for a free reroll of the annoying party member and retcon the rest.
I agree with Salla, everyone hates the person who is a **** in real life, and feels he needs to play a **** ingame.
Drop him on an offworld planet, then if he creates a new character that is exactly the same, do it again and say "we've dealt with this before" that way its not meta. After a while of dropping his characters off on offworld planets, which mind you me gets f-ing hilarious after a while, he will come around and his ego will shrink so everyone can finally breathe without it taking up up too much room.
If he wants to play an evil character fine, tell him every alignment has it's consiquences
The CE rogue has made himself a threat to the party by attempting to poison one character while they were in a trance/sleeping as well as openly stating they're entertaining the idea of selling the jedi out to the Empire.
Remove the threat in a way that goes along with your character, kill him, strand him, etc.
im in kind of disagreement to do any course of action 'in game' because i feel it validates his actions as canon. this is an issue that should be handled out of game.
look at it from the standpoint of an episodic series, you have an actor who is portaying a chracter that destroys the plot of the movie, they solve the problem in the next episode and write that character out that way. maybe even joke in a retcon where needed.
let the player understand how stupid his actions were to the point they have been sticken from the record.
Tell the player to knock it off. Create a new character if he must, but stop being an absolute douchebag. If he refuses, kick him out of the group.
Turn the moron over to the Empire. I'm sure he has some bounties out on him. If your a Jedi this scumbag isnt worth the Darkside points for killing him. Because killing him in anger would get you that. Killing him when he's not trying ot kill you ethier would get you DSP. Just turn him over or wait until the fool tries something and then hack him down and kick him the hell out of the group. Also your DM is a weenie. No backbone. He said he wanted a light side game and then he allows a Darksider for the most part? Dee Dee Dee. I hate DMs like that. :-(
Do not go with an in-game solution. It will only lead to a domino effect. Tell the player to quit that crap and play a concept that fits in better with the group. If he cannot play nice with everyone else than its time he goes home. No reason to take a hobby and make it a chore dealing with some anti-social person.
Doesn't really take place in a D&D setting (SW SAGA actually) but I'm facing a pretty annoying player dilemma right now. Basically, it takes part in the era where the my char. class (Jedi) is being actively hunted by the Empire and 1/2 the party are Jedi. Now we have 2 rogues, one who plays like a lawful neutral one and the other chaotic evil. We've had 3 sessions so far and the first session was decent, because the chaotic evil rogue hadn't joined yet. But basically from the 2nd session onwards, group cohesiveness has just been going down because the chaotic evil rogue just behaves like an a--hole. Here's what happened
a) Upon first meeting my char, who was in a trance because of a recent encounter, the rogue came close to me and then tried to use a poison needle to stab me. He failed but in return I took out my sword and slashed at him which I figured was a in-char reaction to some stranger you've never met trying to stab you with a needle. Luckily the T.N rogue defused the situation by talking the C.E rogue down.
b) The C.E rogue then made constant remarks about selling me and the other jedi out to the Empire. At which point, I flat out told the other PC to beware the rogue and not to let their guard down around him and be ready in case he tried anything funny and we had to take him out. He seemed offended at this.
c) 3rd session. We went through the combat fine and were returning to base. I walked up to the toilet and got back to see a piece of paper the rogue had passed to the GM asking how much he would get if he sold us to the empire and how long it would take them to get to our secret hideout. At this point, I'm already annoyed mostly because the rogue's real life player is also annoying. So when we make a report back, I hang back and request to talk to the Master of the order privately because he's the one sending us on all the missions and paying us. I tell the master in a private conversation; although all the other players are still there and so know whats going on in a metagame sense, that I don't trust the rogue and that same thing, we should be wary of him. This is just to raise the NPCs alertness level so that if the rogue tries anything funny again, they will at least be prepared for it and react accordingly. The C.E rogue seems annoyed again and accuses me of metagaming, nevermind the fact that my character basically doesn't trust his because of all the open comments he made about selling us out and trying to poison me the first time.
So that's the sum of what has happened so far. Basically, I was talking to the L.N rogue and he suggested that perhaps I shouldn't have drawn my sword on him after he tried to poison me, because that would make anyone want to attk me. And that secondly, we try to get the master to pay the rogue more, so that he doesn't try to sell us out. I don't know, but should players HAVE to bribe other players just to get them not to sell them out? I mean, his advice to me was basically 'suck it up, don't react when he attks you and try to bribe him'. I mean, is this seriously accepted behaviour???? Am I over-reacting? Because I have said that if he keeps trying to sell us out, my char will be forced to defend himself pre-emptively. I mean, would most people seriously consider adventuring on with such a party member or just boot him out?
Boot him out!?!?
No, no... You have to KILL him!
He tries to poison you, attempts to sell you out. Not killing him is like, hm, suicide. He's not an ally- he's an enemy!
I mean, you see that don't you?
...He's not an ally- he's an enemy!
I mean, you see that don't you?
Exactly this.
PCs are not automatically allies just as NPCs are not automatically enemies. The status of 'ally' or 'enemy' is judged by actions, and his character has done more to label himself an enemy than most NPC enemies do.
Seriously, what he's doing is more in line with what you'd expect from a BBEG, not an ally.
Well, right now the lawful neutral rogue is talking with the GM about what to do about it. I have no idea what the outcome will be because the l.n rogue thought I was too close to the issue to think about it clearly. But I really wonder if anything will be solved. The GM doesn't like the crap he's pulling but the L.N rogue apparently thinks my char should suck it up and that the game doesn't have alignments like D&D so his behaviour is acceptable.
I say, get ride of him but this is how you do it.
Get everyone in on it. Let him sell you to the Empire. Then the DM takes it from there, ends his characters part in the adventure, and rewrites it a little where the party has to escape from the Empire.
He gets what he wants, but also ends his part in the campaign, you all get to attempt a daring prison escape.
Well, right now the lawful neutral rogue is talking with the GM about what to do about it. I have no idea what the outcome will be because the l.n rogue thought I was too close to the issue to think about it clearly. But I really wonder if anything will be solved. The GM doesn't like the crap he's pulling but the L.N rogue apparently thinks my char should suck it up and that the game doesn't have alignments like D&D so his behaviour is acceptable.
Whether or not there are alignments is irrelevant. The lack of alignments doesn't mean that there's no such thing as evil, which murder and betrayal are.
The GM doesn't like the crap he's pulling but the L.N rogue apparently thinks my char should suck it up and that the game doesn't have alignments like D&D so his behaviour is acceptable.
Freaking alignment....
Basically point out that just because the game doesn't state that "Fun Ruiner" is an unacceptable alignment, does not mean that is it an OK alignment for your group.
I understand why some people play these types of characters, I cannot understand why some players/dms feel the need to defend their players. If its ok for the rouge to poison you, then it is ok for you to cut him down with your sword in public. If its not ok in your group to kill the guy who just failed at killing you, then it must not be ok for him to try to kill you in the first place.
im in kind of disagreement to do any course of action 'in game' because i feel it validates his actions as canon. this is an issue that should be handled out of game.
I disagree with this, the CE rogue has just as much right to play a jerk as you have a right not to put up with it. I think it should be handled in game, unless he is making out of character/meta game remarks/threats. Just as it might be fun for you to play in a group of unquestionably good characters, it may be fun for him to play an a-hole.
let the player understand how stupid his actions were to the point they have been sticken from the record.
^this, there are consequenses to every action and if you find it hard to come up with a reason not to kill, abandon, or otherwise get rid of the problematic character (character not player) then by all means get rid of him, or have your character leave. If the other players are backing him more than you, then it might be you who needs to reroll a character. Out scoundrel him, that'll teach him a lesson.
if your group really does have double standards, then find a new group.
If I were playing, I'd have a light saber "accident", a very tragic one, that resulted in the underhanded rogue losing his weapon hands.
"oops! Dude, I'm Soooo sorry"
"Whoops! I seem to have done it again! My bad"
Then strand him on a dead world.
im not attacking his right to play an evil chracter, but i am mentioning that whatever alignment hes trying to play is ultimatly disruptive and he is acting the part. if his fun is part of making the other characters not have as much fun or otherwides impeded thier ability then i, if i were in the dms shoes would strike it from the record and retcon it.
i agree with others alignment isnt the issue, it would be the equivilant if everyone wanted to play smugglers and gangsters from mos eisley and he wants to play an emperial officer. it would bring the same crap to the table.
eventually you will find this type of player, the one who wants to play a paladin in a rogues gallery, the one who wants to play an assassin in a lg holy order knowing it would make the other players squirm, and set the dm back because its his 'fun'.
lame.
do away with him.
forcerpersuade: get in the airlock
ce guy gets in airlock
you close airlock inner door and oen outer airlock
ce guy gets spaced
do away with him.
forcerpersuade: get in the airlock
ce guy gets in airlock
you close airlock inner door and oen outer airlock
ce guy gets spaced
Probably beyond the capacity of a Mind Trick. 
I disagree with this, the CE rogue has just as much right to play a jerk as you have a right not to put up with it. I think it should be handled in game, unless he is making out of character/meta game remarks/threats. Just as it might be fun for you to play in a group of unquestionably good characters, it may be fun for him to play an a-hole.
Roleplaying is a group activity. Someone playing a character contrary to the group, is disrupting the group activity and shouldn't be there.
You can mindtrick a guy into going into an airlock since the text says you can make any request seem reasonable. Problem is the rogue's a droid and mindtrick doesn't work on him. I do have something that will work on him though called 'drain energy' which basically powers him down like an energizer bunny that's gone flat. At which point he'd be considered helpless/unconscious/whatever until someone powered him up again. Only problem with that tactic is that currently my in-game char doesn't know he's a droid (looks entirely human and as a bioskin covering him) and doesn't know he actually has tried to sell them out to the sith. He just really really distrusts the rogue. So before getting rid of him, I'd need to find a way for my char to discover his true intentions and nature.
I here by relay a message for you.
Query: what some stupid bag of bolts thinks he can do better than me??- HK-47
how can they not know??
most places do I'd miagine have sensors to locate what is coming in and out of their spaceports???
assassin driods are illegal
and on top of that, any jedi worth his grain of the force would be able to tell that said being disguised as a human wont react to the force when one reaches out.....
Your character was Force-Sensitive, right? He has to know the rogue is a droid, because he wouldn't have a psychic imprint (aka you can't sense him with the Force). Heck, now the solution is easy and obvious: find a techie and reprogram his sorry fuselage into something useful.
Oh, or give him his annual memory wipe. They do that to droids.
Certain folks seem to think that there's a page in the rules of every game they play that says,
Ultimate Unbreakable Rule #1: You have the right to do whatever you want with your character, especially if it amuses you to ruin other peoples' characters.
I'm sorry, it's just not true. I've examined the players' books for every rules system I owned, and guess what? I didn't see any such Inalienable Right. Not one word about one player's right to make everybody else sit through his endless "look how clever I am" playtime. They mention 'teamwork' and 'fun' a few times, and I guess that could be interpreted as, "Let's all team up to play a game in which I am what Boba Fett has nightmares about and you're a bunch of quadraplegic Ewoks that I stuffed in my ship's hold, because it would be fun... for me."
Rant aside... Tell this player, straight up, in front of the referee and everybody, that his character concept doesn't fit the group and you're inviting him to retire the character. If I'm not mistaken, you'll have the three-out-of-five majority you need if you foolishly let it go to a vote, but you're better off not resorting to democracy - just be willing to out-stare this dogflop. He's got three options.
1. Retire this droid and bring in a character who actually fits the group and the story.
2. Walk away from the table and find another group.
3. Bully the GM into making you leave.
Don't try to "resolve the matter in-game." If you've decided that the problem is the player, not his character, then trying to destroy or one-up his character simply reinforces his self-indulgent impression that he is a clever fellow.
Solve the problem both out of game and ingame. The reason for doing both is to a: me mature and give the player the opportunity to rectify his actions and b: set the presedence that You will not tollorate this kind of problems and that there are in-game consequences for being a jerk or betraying the party.
Out of Game: Announce that his character doesn't fit with the party, that he is evil and counterproductive for a party of Jedi. He is also betraying and trying to murder the group which is just playing against the group rather then with the group. Therefore from now on you will treat his PC as an NPC, in every way and shape. He has tried to murder you in your sleep so unless he can prove otherwise, and legitimately he is your enemy and will be forceably dealt with. It is up to him to come clean and change his ways to your Jedi's satisfaction or else he will be abandoned.
Note that killing someone in their sleep for no reason makes his PC a crazy serial killer, so using force against him is justified if he resists being imprisoned.
In Game: Emmediately stop meta-gaming and pull out your life saber, demand he surrenders and is imprisoned (tied up, locked in a room, etc) until he can be dealt with and tried. Either turn him over to whatever authorities would lock him away or have him abandoned on a backwater uninhabited planet. Remember that he is a crazy, evil serial killer and as such you can not leave him loose on an inhabited world as this would be endangering others. If he cannot be safely imprisoned or otherwise made to not harm others then he should be executed. Stress evil serial killer who tried to murder you in your sleep.
Give his character the option of changing his ways, admitting he is a droid and allowing a modification of his programming to make him sane and non-evil might be acceptable, also offer him a free and fair reroll.
In both parts of this make it clear that you aren't against the player, but that your Jedi can't metagame around such an obvious threat, it has to be dealt with and that you are giving the player every opportunity to fix the issue.