However in this game I'm in there seems to be an anti-controller bias. Most people look down on my evasive maneuvers and staying away from close combat. They balk at my clever use of corners and angles to blow stuff up while avoiding return fire. None of that I mind, but when the DM has it out for you its a bit different.
In our game we have a random "personality quirks" table that you roll on when you get brought down to below zero hitpoits (I loathe it but thats besides the point). Almost every person in our party has had to roll on the table at some point during the campaign so far except for me and the Seeker. I'm guessing that the DM has had it out for us controllers due to us rarely being in danger of going below zero. During an encounter with a Black Dragon of some sort I decided to break and retreat after one of our Fighters got killed(mostly due to Clerical error), I'm at low health, and we had yet to bloody the dragon. The dragon of course decides to break combat from the other 4 party members to chase after me. Everything is fine with me pelting him with Ray of Frost to keep him slowed and using cooldowns when I miss to keep me safe. After a couple of rounds with me kiting the dragon by staying in his sweet spot(8 squares away meaning if he moves 2 squares then I am still out of range of the close blast 5 breath weapon), he decides to have the dragon pick up a rock and throw it at me for 6 damage which is just enough to bring me to zero.
In addition to having dragons throw rocks at me, I've also had skeletons throw swords at me when I've immobilized them while they were still at full health for the most part. I'm thinking of just getting my character killed off in a silent protest and rerolling a herpderp non-rogue melee class since obviously other classes at the table seem to be frowned upon. What are other people's opinons?
talk to your DM.
Agree with him that indeed, controllers should not end every combat (mostly) unharmed, but that he should adjust his encounters in advance instead of just suddenly doing weird/irrational/uncharacteristic things during combat.
Inform him that he could use more mobs, use the terrain to his advantage, use ranged mobs, ...
Just try to make him understand that different roles will experience combat in different ways.
Your job is not to get hit or hit things, but to make things easier to kill for the rest of your party.
Talk it over first before rage-quitting the role that you love (and seem to have a talent for).
I wonder if the DM hates ranger archers as well?
I have a ranger archer and a wizard that loath close combat--but they get hit once in awhile. And when they do, it is not pretty. DM just need to change his encounter make up.
In addition to having dragons throw rocks at me, I've also had skeletons throw swords at me when I've immobilized them while they were still at full health for the most part. I'm thinking of just getting my character killed off in a silent protest and rerolling a herpderp non-rogue melee class since obviously other classes at the table seem to be frowned upon. What are other people's opinons?
Sounds fine to me. Dragon kills a Defender and when the bloodied (?) Controller runs for their life, it chases after it. You said the dragon played your game for a couple rounds? That's pretty indulging of your DM, throwing a rock isn't particularly draconic but it worked. Where was the rest of the party? Did the black dragon stomp your unconscious character for making him chase after you? I also don't think skeletons throwing their swords is a bid deal, providing they mostly miss.
Sounds like your a creative player who uses all of the game's mechanics to your advantage. If the DM does the same, you don't like it? Think of it this way, your DM is in fact trying to kill your character because they want you to roll on that table they made but more importantly your DM wants to challenge you.
Our DM does make good use of terrain and he does build challenging encounters. About 1/2 of them he manages to get me below bloodied while maybe 1/2 of those I might get a heal from our over worked Pacifist Cleric. We don't have an Archery Ranger, but we do have an archer Seeker. I think I have the reputation for cowardice due to the Seeker just standing back at 20 squares and acting like an immovable turret for most games while I have to constantly be dancing back and forth from position to position due to my longest range powers being within charge range of most enemies (along with having less hp and surges).
I'm going to give it more time to cool down before I decide whether or not I want to reroll. The personality quirk, while not the worst I could get, is still pretty bad. Its severe short term memory loss. I get a -5 penalty for ALL social interactions(great for one of the party's faces) and every 5 rounds in combat I have to make a save or I take a -2 to attack anyone I've already attacked at least once and I'm slowed until end of my next turn.
The other ones people have gotten so far include dislike of religious places, woman's mind trapped in a man's body, and losing the ability to speak common.
Sounds fine to me. Dragon kills a Defender and when the bloodied (?) Controller runs for their life, it chases after it. You said the dragon played your game for a couple rounds? That's pretty indulging of your DM, throwing a rock isn't particularly draconic but it worked. Where was the rest of the party? Did the black dragon stomp your unconscious character for making him chase after you? I also don't think skeletons throwing their swords is a bid deal, providing they mostly miss.
The dragon killed our 2hander Fighter. Well technically the Fighter was at one point away from negative bloodied while taking ongoing damage and the Sorcerer next to him decided to attack the dragon instead of giving him the potion he pulled out while the Pacifist Cleric forgot our Fighter was taking ongoing damage(even though I mentioned it) and healed the other Fighter instead. We still had our sword and board Fighter up near melee range, the Cleric within 3 or so squares, the Sorcerer about 4 squares away, the Seeker about 7 squares away(hell if I know how that happens), and me about 26 squares away. The dragon double moved and flew 20 squares to try and catch up with me(taking at least one OA in the process I believe). The party of course was now way out of position to do anything about it in a timely manner.
Now the whole "indulging" me by being kited seems a little out of place. Its like saying the DM is indulging someone when his monster is stunned and he is kind enough not to just go ahead and take actions on his turn anyways or its like saying the DM brings someone down to negative hitpoints and is kind enough to indulge the Cleric by letting him heal the PC. Hell, I wouldn't even have a problem if I missed while out of back up abilities(OoI, AP, etc) and the dragon just ripped me to shreds and outright killed me, but out of nowhere just picking up a rock and throwing it for 6 damage? Its not like where we were at was particularly rocky or anything as far as I could tell(lack of description so it could have been or may not have been). It feels like diablo ex machina which I detest about as much as deus ex machina. Also, skeletons and dragons throwing things seem to be getting full attack bonuses and (in the case of swords) doing full damage.
Sounds like your a creative player who uses all of the game's mechanics to your advantage. If the DM does the same, you don't like it? Think of it this way, your DM is in fact trying to kill your character because they want you to roll on that table they made but more importantly your DM wants to challenge you.
I don't mind if the DM beats me through game mechanics. It is one thing if the skeletons pull out a bow and shoot me with it or if they throw an honest-to-goodness throwing weapon and hit me with it, but its another to turn a full on melee only weapon and treat it like the skeletons are Link with the darn Master Sword. If the DM straight up killed me through game mechanics I would shrug my shoulders and move on, but being knocked out by diablo ex machina feels like I was robbed and just makes me rage. It feels the same as if he just said "lightning comes from the sky and hits you for 6 damage".
Er...Wow. How are your melee characters still playable? <<
Besides the first encounter we ever ran(which had immobilizing terrain on failed athletics checks I believe) most encounters have been pretty melee friendly. Fighters were either in charge range or just straight up move and attack range first round. If the DM had monsters that immobilized the Fighters often times the other monsters wouldn't bother staying away(negating most of the point of immobilize). The DM usually played it straight with the mark instead of using knockback attacks to escape and nullify the OAs and IR MBAs. The DM never did a daze/prone and take one step back combo that is the bane of non-reach/non Acrobatic boots melee. I'm almost positive that our DM let our one Fighter throw his greatsword as a heavy thrown weapon once, but I can't quite remember.
The skeletons not so much. As far as I know skeletons are mindless, how is one going to be inventive enough to pitch his sword at you. Also, a non ranged weapon that is thrown counts as an improvised weapon, so 1d4 damage.
As with most problems like this, the best course of action is simply to start a conversation on the topic and hash out a solution though.
My girlfriend's(the Seeker) suggestion is to get killed off since we're still in the middle of the encounter and had to end the session early and then just play another Wizard with maybe just a name change being the only difference.
I don't see much wrong with the dragon tossing a rock at you, either... dragons are generally smart, and you were being an obvious detriment to his well-being, and that was really his only option.
I also can't see where it's cowardice when you know getting in close WILL get you killed. Controllers have low HP, few surges, and generally low defenses ... getting in melee range is a really good way to get yourself killed. That's not cowardice, that's not even being smart ... it's just not being stupid.
I understand its a team game, but if I'm not getting my "proactive defense" that a lot of controllers rely on to survive then why am I still getting the worst surges and hp in the game. They didn't give controller **** hps just to give defenders something to protect. If the only controller powers of mine that work are Flaming Sphere and Thunderwave then why the hell am I playing this class? I don't want to have to rely for protection on a Fighter who stopped marking targets because "its not like I'm going to hit them anyways".
If every enemy I attack is going to be equipped with Sworderangs or throwing rocks then what point is there to me even having slowing, proning, or immobilizing powers? Its not like they have crap bonuses to attack either. They are getting full attack bonuses. No matter what I do to save my own life there is literally no way I can stay alive by kiting if every fight is going to end up in a stone throwing contest. I'd grab a Cloak of Distortion, but then enemies will probably start throwing a thousand rocks at a time so it counts as a burst attack.
I understand its a team game, but if I'm not getting my "proactive defense" that a lot of controllers rely on to survive then why am I still getting the worst surges and hp in the game. They didn't give controller **** hps just to give defenders something to protect. If the only controller powers of mine that work are Flaming Sphere and Thunderwave then why the hell am I playing this class? I don't want to have to rely for protection on a Fighter who stopped marking targets because "its not like I'm going to hit them anyways".
First off, you're about halfway right and halfway wrong. From what you've described I think your DM is obviously bending the rules a little to try and kill you. If a skeleton throws his sword to hit you because he's immobilized and you're all that's in range, that's ok, and he should get mostly his full attack bonus (-2 for no proficiency), do 1d4 damage, and not have a sword until he picks it up. If he throws his sword, does full damage, and magically still has his sword (sworderang as you call it), then that's not ok.
Your argument regarding the dragon is just silly though. You're not dealing with a mindless zombie, you're dealing with a dragon. Dragons don't live to be thousands of years old by mindlessly chasing a low level wizard and getting kited to death. He could have just as easily walked over to his horde and grabbed a magic item to kill you with as thrown a rock, you can't honestly expect a dragon to let you kite it to death with your level 1 at-will power =p
You have all these nice slowing powers to help your team control the mobs. You have them to help your fighter lock down enemies, to help your leader get away from a lurker, and to help your strikers nova down a high threat target. You don't have them to kite the most iconic monster in the game to death by yourself.
I'll say it again though, this is a problem between you and your DM. Talk to him. While I do think that giving you such a huge death penalty is silly, if you let your wizard die and roll a new one you're not fixing the problem. You both play the game to have fun. Politely ask him why he's bending the rules to get you and what the two of you can do to make the situation more fun for both of you.
First off, you're about halfway right and halfway wrong. From what you've described I think your DM is obviously bending the rules a little to try and kill you. If a skeleton throws his sword to hit you because he's immobilized and you're all that's in range, that's ok, and he should get mostly his full attack bonus (-2 for no proficiency), do 1d4 damage, and not have a sword until he picks it up. If he throws his sword, does full damage, and magically still has his sword (sworderang as you call it), then that's not ok.
Yeah its much closer to the latter. Sworderang is probably the most accurate way to describe it.
Your argument regarding the dragon is just silly though. You're not dealing with a mindless zombie, you're dealing with a dragon. Dragons don't live to be thousands of years old by mindlessly chasing a low level wizard and getting kited to death. He could have just as easily walked over to his horde and grabbed a magic item to kill you with as thrown a rock, you can't honestly expect a dragon to let you kite it to death with your level 1 at-will power =p
I'm not sure of the age category or level of the Black Dragon, but we are 3rd level and I was hitting it on an 18 vs Fortitude with Ray of Frost so I'm guessing it can't be TOO old of a dragon. I wouldn't have been as pissed if he would've pulled out some spellcasting power(which is definitely not unheard of for dragons) out of thin air to hit me with to take me down or if he made some crap up about turning his breath weapon from a cone into a beam or something, but throwing a rock feels like the most obvious BS diablo ex machina there is.
Also, any solo that goes rambo and tries to take on a Wizard/Psion/Seeker/Ranger 1v1 without even bothering with ranged attacks deserves to die a horrible, embarassing, slow death. A solo should've learned something in its ascent to power and suiciding against a shutdown class in the dumbest way possible is just natural selection/ the gods at work.
You have all these nice slowing powers to help your team control the mobs. You have them to help your fighter lock down enemies, to help your leader get away from a lurker, and to help your strikers nova down a high threat target. You don't have them to kite the most iconic monster in the game to death by yourself.
The slowing powers are for locking down/kiting enemies and my own protection. Why do you think controllers get crap hp and surges? Its because most if not all of their durability comes from proactive/reactive defense as opposed to passive defense. Its not my fault if a solo got where they are by sheer dumb luck. If a dragon doesn't bring help to fight off a party of smart PCs then they deserve to get locked down and killed for being such a one trick pony.
I'll say it again though, this is a problem between you and your DM. Talk to him. While I do think that giving you such a huge death penalty is silly, if you let your wizard die and roll a new one you're not fixing the problem. You both play the game to have fun. Politely ask him why he's bending the rules to get you and what the two of you can do to make the situation more fun for both of you.
That might be the best solution. Not sure how that will go with the amount of disdain I seem to get at this table. I might just have to copy my girlfriend by playing a character who can fight from 20-25 squares away, never has to move, and requires little attention so that I can just text on my phone and only pay attention for 20 seconds every 10 minutes or so to roll dice. I was also thinking of going to CharOp and finding a character build that drags combat out so long and makes fighting so painful that my Wizard's power gaming antics will seem like a memory of heaven.
Perhaps you might suggest he mix up his enemies to allow for better battlefield coverage. This would provide different challenges for the party and would allow him the opportunity to lay out some damage at a distance without resorting to rather ridiculous tactics like sword throwing skeletions and rock throwing dragons. Personally, if I was DMing and had the thought that throwing rocks was the ideal strategy to handling a pesky controller, I would just call the game and apologize to the players for wasting their time with such a subpar encounter.
I admit, I have some hesitation in offering you advice to hand to your DM as, from what you've described, I would worry that he would interpret "add some ranged enemies" as "every encounter will have 10 ranged enemies and they will all target the controller every round". But you know your DM best, so perhaps it won't be so bad.
On a side note, that rule on "personality quirks" would be a deal breaker for me as a player. If I didn't just not play, I would be hard pressed not to be a passive agressive d-bag and just make the same character every time I died. "Hi everyone, I'm Joe Wizard IV. It's nice to meet you all, I hear you knew my cousin Joe Wizard III."
Edit to add: Just had the thought that perhaps he's very much in love with his personality disorder chart and really wants everyone to have to roll on it at least once. Perhaps dying and taking the roll will make him happy, or perhaps just offering to roll on it for the heck of it would work.
Regarding the quirks- I agree they suck but has anyone else asked to make a new character simply because they got a quirk they didn't like?
I believe the fighter did as he is now rolling a barbarian.
The Fighter died in the fight against the dragon which is why he is now a Barbarian. Ironically it was only a couple of in game minutes after completing the ritual to restore his ability to speak common.
I dislike the random quirks, but had I gotten something like "Man trapped in a woman's body" or something like that I'd just play it up for a while before getting cured. The one I have which I originally expected to be where you occasionally had deja vu moments and forgot where you were and why you were there wasn't bad at first. However, when I was told that it was like Mr. Short Term Memory/50 First Dates it became a different story. My character can't remember anything for more than a few seconds since the "quirk" came into play. I can't implement any sort of reasonable strategy in battle as I can't remember what I did the round before, why we're fighting, or in some cases who we're even fighting. I can't reasonably participate in the roleplaying aspect of an adventure as I will never be able to tell anyone where we are, why we're here, or what we're doing assuming I even remember who I'm talking to or why I'm talking to them. My party members even pointed out that they could technically punch me in the face repeatedly, steal all my belongings, or do other unspeakable things and I wouldn't be able to do a damn thing about it as I wouldn't even be able to remember what happened once a few seconds go by. They said I could still learn new abilities when I level up purely as a mercy ruling. Technically I can never get myself cured as I doubt I could even remember that I have this problem in the first place. At this point I have to rely purely on the mercy of my party to make this character playable again and considering we have been exiled from where we got our last party member's affliction cured I have a feeling that this may take a while.
+1 on this. You didn't actually expect the dragon just to do the Everquest MOB dance for you until it died, did you? I mean, if you were chasing someone who could run faster than you and was whacking you with a slingshot every few moments, wouldn't you either seek shelter or pick up a rock and throw it at him?
Seriously. That dragon did the right thing.
Assuming I was a Ranger who could keep a dragon slowed from 50 squares away then what would be the right thing for the DM to do? Would the dragon throwing rocks from 50 squares away suddenly become the "smart thing" to do?
If I was a melee being kited by something my instinct would depend on whether it was a long term kite or a short term kite. If I knew it would only last a round or two then I would go Total Defense/Second Wind and try to close as much distance as I can. If I knew it may last a while/forever then I would go Total Defense, get to cover or out of LoS, and even go prone if absolutely necessary. Considering I was hitting a Dragon with decent defenses and I was suffering a -5 to attack from a cloud of darkness(pretty much I was rolling hot on the dice) then I'd go for short term anti-kiting techniques.
Regarding the quirks- I agree they suck but has anyone else asked to make a new character simply because they got a quirk they didn't like?
I believe the fighter did as he is now rolling a barbarian.
The Fighter died in the fight against the dragon which is why he is now a Barbarian. Ironically it was only a couple of in game minutes after completing the ritual to restore his ability to speak common.
I dislike the random quirks, but had I gotten something like "Man trapped in a woman's body" or something like that I'd just play it up for a while before getting cured. The one I have which I originally expected to be where you occasionally had deja vu moments and forgot where you were and why you were there wasn't bad at first. However, when I was told that it was like Mr. Short Term Memory/50 First Dates it became a different story. My character can't remember anything for more than a few seconds since the "quirk" came into play. I can't implement any sort of reasonable strategy in battle as I can't remember what I did the round before, why we're fighting, or in some cases who we're even fighting. I can't reasonably participate in the roleplaying aspect of an adventure as I will never be able to tell anyone where we are, why we're here, or what we're doing assuming I even remember who I'm talking to or why I'm talking to them. My party members even pointed out that they could technically punch me in the face repeatedly, steal all my belongings, or do other unspeakable things and I wouldn't be able to do a damn thing about it as I wouldn't even be able to remember what happened once a few seconds go by. They said I could still learn new abilities when I level up purely as a mercy ruling. Technically I can never get myself cured as I doubt I could even remember that I have this problem in the first place. At this point I have to rely purely on the mercy of my party to make this character playable again and considering we have been exiled from where we got our last party member's affliction cured I have a feeling that this may take a while.
Couple suggestions here. Have you seen the film, Memento? The protagonist suffers from a similar problem in that he's incapable of storing new memories. However, he's aware that he's broken, as your character very well should be. Even if you can't remember things that happened 10 seconds ago your body would inherently know somethings wrong with you. He gets around it by tatoo-ing important events/people/places on his body. Not exactly practical for you, but you could keep a journal for a similar purpose.
Also, consider re-training a feat to Arcane Familiar next time you level. Familiars are very intelligent, and I believe they communicate telepathically with their master. Every time you black out your familiar can fill you in instantly.
Also, I would punch my DM if he ever told me he was inspired by a Drew Barrymore RomCom =p
Couple suggestions here. Have you seen the film, Memento? The protagonist suffers from a similar problem in that he's incapable of storing new memories. However, he's aware that he's broken, as your character very well should be. Even if you can't remember things that happened 10 seconds ago your body would inherently know somethings wrong with you. He gets around it by tatoo-ing important events/people/places on his body. Not exactly practical for you, but you could keep a journal for a similar purpose.
Can't say I've seen Memento, but I remember The Nameless One from Planescape:Torment had a similar thing.
Also, consider re-training a feat to Arcane Familiar next time you level. Familiars are very intelligent, and I believe they communicate telepathically with their master. Every time you black out your familiar can fill you in instantly.
Holy ****! I can't believe I didn't think about this. I actually grabbed Arcane Familiar last level just for fun and RP purposes, but I never thought of using it to combat my lack of memory. You may have just saved my Wizard.
Now to wait for the right time to plot my revenge on our Cleric and Barbarian. They both betrayed the party to side with the dragon and attacked me midfight. My Wizard can't remember that happened, but my familiar can! Now to wait for us to have a fight near a cliffside and assassinate those Goliath bastards with a well timed Thunderwave.
Couple suggestions here. Have you seen the film, Memento? The protagonist suffers from a similar problem in that he's incapable of storing new memories. However, he's aware that he's broken, as your character very well should be. Even if you can't remember things that happened 10 seconds ago your body would inherently know somethings wrong with you. He gets around it by tatoo-ing important events/people/places on his body. Not exactly practical for you, but you could keep a journal for a similar purpose.
Can't say I've seen Memento, but I remember The Nameless One from Planescape:Torment had a similar thing.Also, consider re-training a feat to Arcane Familiar next time you level. Familiars are very intelligent, and I believe they communicate telepathically with their master. Every time you black out your familiar can fill you in instantly.
Holy ****! I can't believe I didn't think about this. I actually grabbed Arcane Familiar last level just for fun and RP purposes, but I never thought of using it to combat my lack of memory. You may have just saved my Wizard.
Now to wait for the right time to plot my revenge on our Cleric and Barbarian. They both betrayed the party to side with the dragon and attacked me midfight. My Wizard can't remember that happened, but my familiar can! Now to wait for us to have a fight near a cliffside and assassinate those Goliath bastards with a well timed Thunderwave.
They seriously backstabbed you? I was thinking you might have jumped to revenge a little early, but this changes things around a bit.
Get 'em!